2023-2024 Season

[Rose]

3 hours ago, fondoffouettes said:

And Jonathan Stafford has taken on her title of "chief of faculty," it looks like? The fact that they eliminated an executive-level position and apparently laid off a long-time faculty member makes we wonder if, sadly, these are cost-saving measures. 

Because this was done quietly without the usual fanfare of a longstanding employee leaving, makes me think something else is going on besides saving money. 

[BalanchineFan]

5 hours ago, fondoffouettes said:

And Jonathan Stafford has taken on her title of "chief of faculty," it looks like? The fact that they eliminated an executive-level position and apparently laid off a long-time faculty member makes we wonder if, sadly, these are cost-saving measures. 

SAB still has the announcement that Darla Hoover was hired, though. I thought this would be her first full season heading things.
 

https://sab.org/school-of-american-ballet-appoints-new-leaders/

 

[matilda]

To the above, I would just say that ballet is an aesthetic art form and this forum is for people to share their opinions on that aesthetic art form.

Bouder was in her prime when that AOL series was filmed. Last fall, she was not stage-ready. 

[Quiggin]

4 hours ago, sanity said:

And for what it's worth, I'd love for larger dancers to join NYCB. There is a massive untapped world of fantastic ballet dancers out there who could do all of NYCB's repertoire justice, who were never given opportunities or advanced training or apprenticeships because of their bodies.

Size maybe not weight affects speed and perceived dynamics. For instance, only the small men were chosen to dance Franz in Coppelia in San Francisco Ballet's production, whereas six foot plus Vito Mazzeo was passed over. Tall Suzanne Farrell couldn't do some of the quick steps that Alexandra Danilova had done in Apollo, so Balanchine changed them for her body type. Emeralds is a liquid ballet, dancers wispily glide through; dancers of a certain size would make the ballet look static. You can't really cast against body type in ballet without it seeming to be some kind of ironic comment on the role.

[Drew]

2 hours ago, Quiggin said:

 You can't really cast against body type in ballet without it seeming to be some kind of ironic comment on the role.

Alexandra Tomalonis who, sadly, is no longer with us felt very strongly about casting and traditional ballet emploi (which, of course, includes physical type, though also personality etc.).  Your comment made me think of her.

But I have reservations too. In the U.S. and specifically at NYCB casting against body type does happen--and often with success. From recent reports, shorter women have been cast in the 'tall girl' role in Rubies to give one example and people on this site seemed satisfied. Such experiments won't always work but sometimes do.  And the most gifted dancers break the mold. Balanchine experimented with casting against type himself (Ashley in Emeralds). As it happens, even if Bouder had not danced Emeralds already, then I would imagine her musicality would serve her well in that ballet.

(And Bouder at her best could always bend a role to her will anyway. I remember seeing her in Piano Concerto no 2 and, if I were to put my thoughts during the performance into words, then they would go something like this: "well, she is a great dancer, but I personally wouldn't pick her to evoke imperial Russian ballet even in a stylized, neoclassical way and that's what this ballet needs ...[a few minutes later]....I have to admit, whatever my reservations, she IS dancing exceptionally well and this is fun....[a few minutes later]...I had reservations?!? She is great in this....[a few minutes later]... What a fantasy vision of imperial Russian Ballet Bouder makes--she's perfect for the role!")

I do remember that the complaints on this site about Bouder not being stage ready when she last danced with the company were also about her technique--and I don't doubt her technique is as subject to time and injury as that of other great dancers--so let's just say I'm absolutely rooting for her to have a fine Fall season and trust that the company leadership and Bouder herself know what they are doing.  

Edited September 3, 2023 by Drew

[On Pointe]

7 hours ago, sanity said:

And for what it's worth, I'd love for larger dancers to join NYCB. There is a massive untapped world of fantastic ballet dancers out there who could do all of NYCB's repertoire justice, who were never given opportunities or advanced training or apprenticeships because of their bodies.

There are not enough positions at NYCB for the many good dancers in the world who are not "larger".   If there was a  "massive untapped world of fantastic ballet dancers" out in the world,  they'd be all over YouTube.    Somebody somewhere would have seen them.   

[matilda]

NYCB is arguably more accepting of less-conventional ballerina bodies than many other companies around the world. There are at least two star principals in the company who would never have made it in the Russian ballet world just based on their figures. But there's a major difference between being naturally more muscular/athletic looking/wider-boned vs. having excess weight that inhibits movement. 

[eduardo]

12 hours ago, Drew said:

From recent reports, shorter women have been cast in the 'tall girl' role in Rubies to give one example and people on this site seemed satisfied. Such experiments won't always work but sometimes do.  And the most gifted dancers break the mold. Balanchine experimented with casting against type himself (Ashley in Emeralds). As it happens, even if Bouder had not danced Emeralds already, then I would imagine her musicality would serve her well in that ballet.

What @Drew said raised one more time something I´ve always wondered. Is the "tall girl" a nickname that was born with the original cast, or perhaps because of tradition? I don't seem to find any reasons for having a tall dancer  in that role. Of course, I don't mean I'm right (I'm probably missing the reasons to say the opposite 🙃). Is it just a matter of contrast with the other main female role, who seems to be cast on the shorter side? Does it have to do with the "character" of the role?

Edited September 3, 2023 by eduardo
misspelling

[volcanohunter]

Patricia Neary, the original Tall Girl, is indeed tall.

I have seen the role performed by dancers who are not tall, but the interaction with the quartet of men was less effective.

There are many female dancers for whom it is difficult to find partners because they are well over six feet tall on pointe. I'm inclined to leave partnerless roles such as the Tall Girl for them to dance. They are shut out of many other roles.

[nanushka]

1 hour ago, eduardo said:

I don't seem to find any reasons for having a tall dancer  in that role.

I don't know about the history of the name, but as far as reasons inherent in the choreography I'd point to how she uses her long limbs, especially her legs, and the fact that she's partnered by four men (one on each limb) at once.

[nysusan]

10 hours ago, Drew said:

But I have reservations too. In the U.S. and specifically at NYCB casting against body type does happen--and often with success. From recent reports, shorter women have been cast in the 'tall girl' role in Rubies to give one example and people on this site seemed satisfied.

Hi Drew! Can you give examples of short dancers cast in the Tall Girl role at NYCB? The shortest dancer I remember is Claire Kreztsmar and she is not short - just not super tall like Kowroski, Reichlin and now LaFreniere, Miller and Kitka.

And, speaking of different body types at NYCB - Balanchine championed dancers with non traditional ballet body types like von Aroldingen and Patricia Neary, who (if I recall) was not only tall, but big.

And now, of course , there is Mearns. She is a magnificent dancer I love but certainly not one anyone would describe as having a typical ballet body.

[eduardo]

4 hours ago, nanushka said:

I don't know about the history of the name, but as far as reasons inherent in the choreography I'd point to how she uses her long limbs, especially her legs, and the fact that she's partnered by four men (one on each limb) at once.

 

See? That's a great point. Thanx, nanushka! 

[fondoffouettes]

14 minutes ago, eduardo said:

See? That's a great point. Thanx, nanushka! 

I also find it very striking when the curtain rises on the opening tableau and the Tall Girl is the apex in the "necklace" of jewels. 

[abatt]

18 hours ago, sanity said:

Idk, this gives "the customer is always right" energy. You paid for seats so you...get to dictate how someone's career goes? You paid for seats so...if the performance isn't stellar she must be sidelined indefinitely? I would hope management takes other things into account; the fact she's a principal, how long she's been at the company, or, I don't know...that she's a person and a coworker and deserves basic compassion and respect. this whole thing really grinds my gears. i joined this board yesterday just to comment this. Why not root for her recovery and success until we receive information otherwise? There's a really nasty undertone (honestly, OVERtone) to the discussion about Bouder.

And for what it's worth, I'd love for larger dancers to join NYCB. There is a massive untapped world of fantastic ballet dancers out there who could do all of NYCB's repertoire justice, who were never given opportunities or advanced training or apprenticeships because of their bodies.

This is a total misrepresentation of what cobweb said.  Bouder is a person and deserves compassion, but she should not be on stage unless she is fully recovered.  Part of that recovery is being stage ready.  She was clearly not stage ready last fall.  

If you would like to see many different body types in a dance company, you should check out Mark Morris Dance Group.  New York City Ballet is not the Mark Morris Dance Group. 

[cobweb]

47 minutes ago, fondoffouettes said:

I also find it very striking when the curtain rises on the opening tableau and the Tall Girl is the apex in the "necklace" of jewels

So true. The taller she is, the more stunning the impact. Her towering over everyone else in that formation, women and men alike, is a great example of how body type directly impacts the audience experience and is integral to the art form. 

27 minutes ago, abatt said:

This is a total misrepresentation of what cobweb said.  Bouder is a person and deserves compassion, but she should not be on stage unless she is fully recovered.  Part of that recovery is being stage ready.  She was clearly not stage ready last fall.  

Thank you abatt. My comments focused on Bouder's overall readiness, not her weight (although that is part of readiness). Given that I also referenced the deficiencies of Erica Pereira, it should be obvious I wasn't talking about weight. I think of Bouder (or used to think of her, before her complaints last fall) as the most talented and disciplined anyone could possibly be, so if anyone can achieve readiness, it would be her. We shall see. 

Edited September 3, 2023 by cobweb

[cobweb]

4 hours ago, matilda said:

There are at least two star principals in the company who would never have made it in the Russian ballet world just based on their figures.

Just curious matilda, who you have in mind. I assume one is Sara Mearns, whose body type is decidedly un-Russian-ballerina. Who is the other one?

[abatt]

For me, Tiler Peck is another ballerina who is sensational but does not have traditional ballerina proportions. 

[Rose]

1 hour ago, cobweb said:

 

Thank you abatt. My comments focused on Bouder's overall readiness, not her weight (although that is part of readiness). Given that I also referenced the deficiencies of Erica Pereira, it should be obvious I wasn't talking about weight. I think of Bouder (or used to think of her, before her complaints last fall) as the most talented and disciplined anyone could possibly be, so if anyone can achieve readiness, it would be her. We shall see. 

I thought so too. However, her priorities seem to have shifted a great deal in the past few years. Furthermore, despite the fact that she's supposedly been taking class and exercising outside of class for several months, there's been no discernible difference in her appearance. It's almost as if she's burned out and can't get back to the mindset/work ethic/discipline she once had. She's not the same Bouder from 2015 but many people still can't see it. 

[pirouette]

Just received the updated Company roster in the mail. New apprentices who are not listed on the site yet are: Oscar Estep, Sierra Griffith, Kloe Walker, Mia Williams, and Shane Williams. Owen Flacke, Allegra Inch, and Noah McAuslin are also still apprentices. 

[fondoffouettes]

2 hours ago, Rose said:

However, her priorities seem to have shifted a great deal in the past few years.

I'll admit I've generally gotten that impression, as well. But I wanted to add that you never know what other factors are at play besides diet, exercise, training, etc. I think of someone like Kathryn Morgan who was trying her darndest and still experiencing weight gain and extreme fatigue toward the end of her NYCB tenure due to her thyroid condition. I'm not saying Bouder is experiencing a similar medical condition, but only she and her doctor can have a complete picture of why she is in a particular shape at any given time. So, I'm hesitant to attribute something to lack of motivation when we only have an incomplete picture of what may be going on.

I'd love to see her eventually return to what I think of as her core repertoire rather than works like Emeralds and Scotch Symphony, for which I think other company members are much better suited. 

[matilda]

3 hours ago, cobweb said:

Just curious matilda, who you have in mind. I assume one is Sara Mearns, whose body type is decidedly un-Russian-ballerina. Who is the other one?

I was thinking of Mearns and Peck in particular. Two glorious dancers who do not fit the traditional classical mold. 

[volcanohunter]

On 9/2/2023 at 3:10 PM, sanity said:

I personally cannot relate to not wanting to see someone dance...because they are bald? lol. Some people just don't have hair.

Tyler Angle's head has been discussed previously on the board.

There are a few ways that dancers deal with thinning hair. One method is to darken the scalp underneath thinning hair to make it appear thicker. Angle used to do this, but the technique is most successful when a dancer's hairline is more or less intact (e.g., Alexandre Riabko of the Hamburg Ballet).

The Bolshoi's Vyacheslav Lopatin wears a toupée in some roles, when he is supposed to appear especially young. But most of the time he performs with his conspicuously receding hairline.

Johan Kobborg always wore a toupée on stage and didn't start going around bald until after he left the Royal Ballet. Even now in photos he is usually seen wearing a cap or hat.

The Royal Danish Ballet's Jonathan Chmelensky wears a wig in narrative and tutu ballets. That includes, for example, Ballo della Regina, which the company streamed during the pandemic. But in contemporary repertoire he goes without the wig.

 

Former Royal Winnipeg Ballet soloist Alexander Gamayunov also had a danseur wig for narrative and tutu ballets, though not all narrative ballets required it, and he pulled off a shaved head especially well.

At the moment I'd say that Angle's most conspicuous problem is his fitness, and some costumes are particularly unforgiving.

 

Edited September 4, 2023 by volcanohunter
photos

[cobweb]

Thanks for these well researched comments, @volcanohunter! Very interesting to see the different approaches to this issue. 

[Passat66]

I have many questions about Suzy Pilarre.  How do you let go of a woman that age? How many teachers are left that were actually taught by Balanchine?  And why would Jonathan Stafford take over running the school - isn't that how they got into trouble before?  One man with too much power.

 

 

[Drew]

10 hours ago, nysusan said:

Hi Drew! Can you give examples of short dancers cast in the Tall Girl role at NYCB? The shortest dancer I remember is Claire Kreztsmar and she is not short - just not super tall like Kowroski, Reichlin and now LaFreniere, Miller and Kitka.

 

I was writing from memory of discussions here--a quick search turned up discussion of Kretzschmar exactly as you say, so that must be what I was remembering--and I have to admit that when I re-looked at that discussion after reading your post this evening I saw that a couple of people did say that they preferred someone taller in that role. To stick to what I've seen myself and remember in terms of less than one-on-one body-type casting: I've seen Margaret Tracy in an iconic Farrell role (Chaconne) and Merrill Ashley in Emeralds.  The latter cast by Balanchine.  I don't remember either of these as spectacularly successful --but they definitely weren't flops either. So I guess I don't think the company needs to be wed to a super strict notion of emploi, though attention to performance tradition does matter. I doubt @Quiggin and I are all that far apart in our view of this.... (All of which is a separate issue from Bouder's stage readiness.)

It's sort of against my own point but with Orpheus about to be revived it may be worth remarking that when Balanchine revived it for Baryshnikov (with Mazzo) it was widely considered a bust, but when Martins (dancing with Von Aroldingen) took the role over later, critics thought the ballet worked after all. I saw both casts and agreed with those assessments -- though it was never exactly a waste of time to see Baryshnikov.  Body types probably played a role there along with temperament and performance traditions inscribed in the bodies of those dancers.  The one thing that does cohere with what I was trying to say is that Balanchine was willing to try it with both casts.  I know that you know that he often didn't take that approach (far from it) but sometimes he did....I am actually extremely curious how that ballet is going to be cast and who can be found that will be able to bring it to life today.

Edited September 4, 2023 by Drew