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No vaccine, no show


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When I bought my tickets for NYCB at SPAC, the policy was to require proof of vaccination or of a negative COVID test within three days of the performance and everybody masked. The policy this week, when the performances actually occurred, was no proof of vaccination/negative test, no masking required unless unvaccinated (but also no checking of vaccination status to ensure that unvaccinated people were masked). The amphitheater on Thursday night was at only 35% capacity, but people were not that distant from one another (<6 feet) . I really dislike that they sold me the tickets under one set of assumptions and then changed the policy.  I went, but I brought a mask with me, and after seeing how close the seating actually was, I decided to wear it for the performance. 

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I believe the policies are fluid based on CDC/state guidelines.  I for one am glad they're following the science.  Outdoor exposure is extremely rare (I believe the latest has it at a 0.1% chance), not to mention if one is vaccinated, what other people are doing should be less of a concern.  

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15 minutes ago, Balletwannabe said:

I believe the policies are fluid based on CDC/state guidelines.  I for one am glad they're following the science.  Outdoor exposure is extremely rare (I believe the latest has it at a 0.1% chance), not to mention if one is vaccinated, what other people are doing should be less of a concern.  

Indoors is a different matter though.

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28 minutes ago, canbelto said:

Indoors is a different matter though.

If you're vaccinated though and most of the audience is (which is highly likely with a ballet audience that tends to be older) The risk is extremely low.  There's just no sense in worrying about this, because first off you can't do anything about it, and second it's bad for your immune system to be stressed out.  That's scientifically based, stress is terrible for our bodies. And that's what I see so many people doing to themselves- stressing over who may or may not be vaccinated when they have no control over that.  And then you get a lot of people worried about it and everyone feeds off of each other, and that's what we have, a collective stressed out, traumatized (from the isolation and having to now go back to crowds) group of citizens.

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35 minutes ago, Balletwannabe said:

If you're vaccinated though and most of the audience is (which is highly likely with a ballet audience that tends to be older) The risk is extremely low.  There's just no sense in worrying about this, because first off you can't do anything about it, and second it's bad for your immune system to be stressed out.  That's scientifically based, stress is terrible for our bodies. And that's what I see so many people doing to themselves- stressing over who may or may not be vaccinated when they have no control over that.  And then you get a lot of people worried about it and everyone feeds off of each other, and that's what we have, a collective stressed out, traumatized (from the isolation and having to now go back to crowds) group of citizens.

There are apparently policy tradeoffs, though. I think it's reasonable to say (as I do) that I wish companies such as NYCB would require audience members to be vaccinated (with the exception of children who can't be), and then let us have regular intermissions, etc. so we can enjoy performances more like we used to.

One can express an opinion about policy matters without getting stressed out about it.

The very sad fact of the matter is we are still quite needlessly not past this pandemic because far too many people have chosen not to “follow the science” and get vaccinated — not just for themselves, but for the benefit of all.

Edited by nanushka
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9 minutes ago, Balletwannabe said:

If you're vaccinated though and most of the audience is (which is highly likely with a ballet audience that tends to be older) The risk is extremely low.  There's just no sense in worrying about this, because first off you can't do anything about it, and second it's bad for your immune system to be stressed out.  That's scientifically based, stress is terrible for our bodies. And that's what I see so many people doing to themselves- stressing over who may or may not be vaccinated when they have no control over that.  And then you get a lot of people worried about it and everyone feeds off of each other, and that's what we have, a collective stressed out, traumatized (from the isolation and having to now go back to crowds) group of citizens.

I am vaccinated but as I teach little kids I also have a responsibility not to get them sick. I would be less stressed out if more people were vaccinated and there is less viral load in the community. 

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The delta variant is highly contagious and more severe, rates are rising throughout the country, including in children, and there are breakthrough cases in vaccinated people. I don't stress about what other people are doing since I'm fully vaccinated, but I still wear a mask indoors or in a crowded setting. My point was that you can buy a ticket assuming that things will be safe because the venue or organization tells you that they are taking various precautions, but the precautions by the time of the performance may be different, so caveat emptor.

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IMHO, this issue puts arts companies in a difficult position. Most cannot afford to antagonize even a small portion of their regular audiences, and the non-vaxers can be pretty intolerant. It's mind-boggling that whether to get vaccinated against a disease that has killed 4 million people in 18 months is a political statement, but that's where we're at right now in the USA.

Last night's Chamber Dance Project performance in DC was mask-required but not socially distanced. (Their original plan was to have 2 performances on Saturday at an outdoor location, but the forecast of rain pushed them to instead have a single performance on Sunday in an unsuitable location - the Washington National Cathedral, where the stage was too low for adequate viewing except for those in the first few rows.)

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1 hour ago, YouOverThere said:

IMHO, this issue puts arts companies in a difficult position. Most cannot afford to antagonize even a small portion of their regular audiences, and the non-vaxers can be pretty intolerant.

On the flip side, there's antagonizing the portion of their audience that IS vaccinated and is reluctant to attend a public event in an enclosed space that doesn't require vaccination because a) they're concerned about picking up a break-through infection and either becoming ill themselves or passing a Covid variant on to someone in their household who's immune-compromised; or b) annoyed at the safety measures that have to be put in place to accommodate the un-vaccinated, such as NO INTERMISSIONS, no bio breaks, no mingling with friends in the lobby, standing outside the theater in inclement weather because the venue can't risk patrons mingling in the lobby prior to the show, etc etc etc.

ETA: An example of where the potential for push-back against a good public-health measure was overblown: when NYC decided to ban smoking in bars and restaurants. There was a huge hue-and-cry from certain sectors of the hospitality industry and the usual suspects in the pundocracy, declaring that this would absolutely, positively be the end of the city's bars and restaurants. Spoiler alert: it wasn't, and drinking in bars and eating in restaurants remained as popular as ever, was more enjoyable for the vast majority of patrons who weren't smokers, and much much safer for the industry's labor force.

Edited by Kathleen O'Connell
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Just got an email from Carnegie Hall stating that all ticket holders must show proof of vaccination.  I support that policy, but they should have made that requirement known BEFORE they began selling subscriptions several weeks ago.

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40 minutes ago, abatt said:

Just got an email from Carnegie Hall stating that all ticket holders must show proof of vaccination.  I support that policy, but they should have made that requirement known BEFORE they began selling subscriptions several weeks ago.

 

Are they saying what counts as proof? The CDC cards we have are easily forged, as I understand. I am on a voluntary state-run database of vaccines that I can pull up on on my phone (with data submitted by my health care provider), but not all states have that.

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Just now, canbelto said:

NY has something called an Excelsior Pass.

I heard about New York, but with a lot of visitors from New Jersey, Connecticut, and elsewhere, I wonder how this will work.

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3 minutes ago, California said:

 

Are they saying what counts as proof? The CDC cards we have are easily forged, as I understand. I am on a voluntary state-run database of vaccines that I can pull up on on my phone (with data submitted by my health care provider), but not all states have that.

 

Here is what the email says:

To support this goal, everyone coming to Carnegie Hall will be required to show proof of full vaccination against COVID-19 with a vaccine approved by the World Health Organization in order to enter the building.

 

There is no info on the documentation required to prove the vaccine.   They are also getting rid of intermissions through December 2021, and program times are limited to 90 minutes through December 2021.  Since there is almost nothing scheduled during 2021 (except a Jonas Kaufmann concert in October), this doesn't really make  much difference.  Anyway, I fully expect Mr. Kaufmann to cancel, as he usually does.

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3 hours ago, California said:

I heard about New York, but with a lot of visitors from New Jersey, Connecticut, and elsewhere, I wonder how this will work.

The excelsior pass is a convenient way to store your vaccine information but the CDC vaccine card will accomplish the same thing. 
 

In fact I’ve had my excelsior pass since February. I’ve been to quite a few events now and I’ve had to show it exactly once and that was when we decided to get free Krispy Kreme donuts. 
 

Unfortunately political pressure has caused almost every place to walk back vaccine documentation. We threw away our shot. 

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IMO going to the theater is a privilege, not a right. If theaters can impose dress codes (no flip flops, must wear shoes), they have a right to impose vaccination requirements.

 

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15 minutes ago, canbelto said:

IMO going to the theater is a privilege, not a right. If theaters can impose dress codes (no flip flops, must wear shoes), they have a right to impose vaccination requirements.

 

Yup. Ditto with masks. 

I sometimes wonder if we aren't suffering from a national epidemic of adult-onset oppositional defiant disorder.

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Admin note:  please keep this discussion to the factual -- what theaters are requiring what, government recommendations and policies, science -- or your personal calculus about attending event in person.

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