Abi Stafford's departure from NYCB

[nanushka]

There's a very interesting article in the Times about Abi Stafford Lillo's departure from NYCB. I'm perhaps biased from seeing her mostly in the final years of her career, in a string of performances that were quite underwhelming, but I don't think she comes off too well in the article overall.

Edited May 3, 2022 by nanushka

[KikiRVA]

Wow.  If she thought doing this article would make her look good or make the current leadership of NYCB look bad, she was quite mistaken.

[ASL]

Hi, please understand that I wanted to tell my story. I went through an extremely traumatic and difficult time. 

[Dancingdemon]

ASL, thank you for sharing your story. It sounds like a horrible situation. 

[ASL]

Thank you, Dancingdemon. I appreciate your kind words.
 

I know I don’t have much support on this site. But I suppose that I appreciate that you all are talking about it? All press is good press!

[abatt]

I don't think any of us can imagine what it would be like to have to work in the same organization and occupation as a sibling, and then have that sibling become the head of the organization. 

I also don't think that Abi is entirely off base in interpreting Ratmansky's concerns to be an indirect or oblique reference to weight.  

 

[nycvillager]

Everyone can have their own opinion, but I think it's good to be heard if you can. If you've ever been a person who felt treated unfairly in the workplace, especially as female, it's maddening to feel that you are not heard. I understand that NYCB is a bit different and has other complexities. 

@ASLI think it was good to share your story. I wasn't able to attend your farewell because I was out of town, but otherwise would have, if anything to honor all the years you danced for NYCB audiences especially beautifully in Emeralds. You brought joy to audiences. I was not aware of the estrangement with your brother, I think I always just assumed you were very close and most of tension came from other dancers regarding casting. 

[Helene]

Commentary about what the NYT chooses to publish has been moved to the relevant forum, "Writings on Ballet":
https://balletalert.invisionzone.com/topic/46926-nyt-choice-of-dance-coverage/

-------

On topic, I find it infantalizing that the level of love of dance seems to be such a disproportionate job consideration in ballet.  Ability, artistry, and professionalism should be, in my opinion, key, and even loving something more, if the info from Ms. Whelan was accurate and spoken and presented in context, and not simply a "gotcha", doesn't mean that people can't love two things at the same time, even if one is more of their focus.  Heaven forbid if a dancer or elite athlete, for that matter, hasn't found something dear to their heart to be able to transition to another phase of their life to a profession that can leave them equally fulfilled, if in other ways, instead of being lost.  The Red Shoes narrative is overrated, in my opinion.

 

 

[On Pointe]

2 hours ago, ASL said:

Hi, please understand that I wanted to tell my story. I went through an extremely traumatic and difficult time. 

Then please take this opportunity,  as a budding lawyer,  to actually make your case,  because the article in the NY Times does you no favors.  NYCB's stance comes across as logical and reasonable,  but the plaintiff's complaints seem petty,  self-serving and vague.  Airing out family feuds by lawsuit is a misuse of the legal system.

[PeggyTulle]

There is so much in this article that troubles me, especially with regard to the logical fallacies like Abi didn't attend company class during the pandemic (btw, we're still in one and many dancers didn't attend in-person class throughout the pandemic) so she wasn't in shape, that being given "opportunities" equated to being cast appropriate with a principal title ("opportunities" could be literally anything: a big swan, a Nutcracker mouse, you name it), and the inference that if you love something else (here: law), then you shouldn't be considered for lead roles and you shouldn't care how you're cast (my paraphrasing). I would imagine being told (via text, no less) that you were being pulled because "the men were struggling" would feel incredibly demeaning, especially if this was meant to be your good-bye performance. In a world that centers on body image, this just screams a giant F U to mental health, kindness, and trying to do better. 

 

[PeggyTulle]

I'll also add that two SF Ballet dancers were vocal on IG last week about being pulled from featured roles in "Swan Lake" last minute because they were told they weren't good enough. And these are two leaving/retiring dancers who have for quite a long time posted videos of their stunning (and still lovely) dancing. The politics at play in casting decisions, even as your career is waning... it sounds like it's an emotional rollercoaster that could be handled with more grace and respect. 

[Balletwannabe]

Elite athletes in the Olympics; purely judged with scores/numbers.  No one can blame anyone for being pushed out. Most athletes are not good enough to perform at the elite Olympic level.  It's brutal, to spend your whole life training and then simply not being good enough. But at least it's measurable.  In ballet, an art form, it's relative ..yes there could be politics involved, but for the most part I think we should give the choreographers & leadership the benefit of the doubt, they're just doing the best they can? When your job involves your body, mental health is at risk.  I don't believe we're in a good position to judge whether or not roles were taken away because of legitimate reasons or not.

A whole other topic ..but no, we're not still in a pandemic according the Dr. Fauci, so that's really no longer a good reason for opting out of your job (this isn't a comment directed at A.Stafford).

Edited May 3, 2022 by Balletwannabe

[PeggyTulle]

Let's not argue Fauci here because even he has said while we're not in the pandemic phase, the pandemic is still ongoing. But the article reads like Whelan was referring to company class last year or earlier in the pandemic, not now. 

 

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/dr-fauci-on-why-the-u-s-is-out-of-the-pandemic-phase-2

[cobweb]

Abi was always so delightfully charming onstage that it's surprising to read she's been so unhappy. I never would have guessed it. Also I never thought of her as being heavy or overweight, so I don't know if that's what Ratmansky meant (although I agree his comment could be read that way). But as a general issue, I don't think weight is irrelevant in ballet. In some recent performances I saw, a couple of the dancers had put on more weight than I'm used to seeing on dancers. For the one that's a woman, I found myself feeling apprehensive on behalf of the men who were partnering her. I've never been a dancer so I don't know, but it does seem like a woman's weight is bound to be a factor in partnering. 

[Helene]

Dancers do a lot with their core and their plie into a jump to help their partners.  A very light weightwise partner might help not at all, turning into dead weight, and expecting the partner to do all of the work. The timing and co-ordination is also critical.

[GB1216]

More than anything this article just saddened me.  I think the art form is such a tough business in general, and then to add family on top of it, further tangles an already complex web. 

[abatt]

I feel sorry for the Stafford parents.  Sadly, many families have private grievances, accusations and estrangements.  However, these usually private matters have now been thrust into the pages of the New York Times.

[FayBallet]

1 hour ago, PeggyTulle said:

There is so much in this article that troubles me, especially with regard to the logical fallacies like Abi didn't attend company class during the pandemic (btw, we're still in one and many dancers didn't attend in-person class throughout the pandemic) so she wasn't in shape, that being given "opportunities" equated to being cast appropriate with a principal title ("opportunities" could be literally anything: a big swan, a Nutcracker mouse, you name it), and the inference that if you love something else (here: law), then you shouldn't be considered for lead roles and you shouldn't care how you're cast (my paraphrasing). I would imagine being told (via text, no less) that you were being pulled because "the men were struggling" would feel incredibly demeaning, especially if this was meant to be your good-bye performance. In a world that centers on body image, this just screams a giant F U to mental health, kindness, and trying to do better. 

 

The article would have been improved by insight into how company class works at NYCB. There was no mention of what the practices and expectations are. Did the writers leave it out assuming people already know? Even having an understanding of the usual practices, I'm not aware of how company class worked "during the pandemic," which I took to mean some time between March 2020 and September 2021. Was practicing at home so unusual during this time? Also, there were no details on the home and gym training Abi did. Was it a private class, self led?

[fondoffouettes]

38 minutes ago, FayBallet said:

The article would have been improved by insight into how company class works at NYCB. There was no mention of what the practices and expectations are. Did the writers leave it out assuming people already know? Even having an understanding of the usual practices, I'm not aware of how company class worked "during the pandemic," which I took to mean some time between March 2020 and September 2021. Was practicing at home so unusual during this time? Also, there were no details on the home and gym training Abi did. Was it a private class, self led?

In Megan Fairchild's conversations series on YouTube, I seem to remember that Sara Mearns talked about how she opts to take class on her own rather than attend company class (whereas Megan said she thrives in the setting of company class, and needs the social interactions, etc.). So, presumably there is some flexibility for principals. 

[FayBallet]

Right. I have heard that some people do choose to take classes elsewhere and/or do private lessons, but I haven't heard about people practicing daily on their own. Is that common? Was it common "during the pandemic?" And is that what Abi was doing? I also believe I've read that management sometimes frowns upon regularly missing company class. More context would be helpful in my evaluation of why City Ballet chose to highlight Abi's lack of attendance and how relevant the missed classes were.

Edited May 3, 2022 by FayBallet
typo

[Helene]

It was more common during the pandemic, when frustrations with Zoom classes, especially in the beginning, was common.  

While not generally common -- although, I'm not sure Villella said in his book whether he took classes elsewhere, when he described crawling on his hands and knees in the morning to his bathtub, and not really being able to move until his masseur came to his brownstone and worked on him -- there was a segment in The Magic of Dance in which a French dancer -- if I remember correctly, a dancer at POB -- did a very unusual workout of his own, which he demoed for the series.  I was always fascinated by it.

[Roberta]

This is so sad. It shouldn't have come to this. I have many fond memories of Abi's dancing, both in NYC and on tours here in DC. I especially loved her leading the opening Allegro of Western Symphony, the 2nd mvmt Valse Melancholique of Tchaikovsky Suite no. 3,  the Robbins-Tharp Brahms/Handel and, most recently, as one of the two female leads in Balanchine's rare gem Kammermusik no. 2. 

I wish Abi Stafford well in her new endeavors. Onwards and upwards! 🥰

[vipa]

5 hours ago, Helene said:

Dancers do a lot with their core and their plie into a jump to help their partners.  A very light weightwise partner might help not at all, turning into dead weight, and expecting the partner to do all of the work. The timing and co-ordination is also critical.

So true. It's why I didn't assume Ratmansky was necessarily talking about weight. A thin dancer who is not in in good shape in terms of core strength and a decent jump is going to be harder to partner than someone who weighs more. 

Abi Stafford was always one of my favorites in Kammermusic 2 and Concerto Barocco, but unless my memory fails, it's been quite sometime since she was cast with any frequency. I too think the article didn't do her any favors, particularly airing family dynamic issues such as a brother taking the attention from his sister on her 31st birthday! 

it's hard o get a full picture from an article like this, with space limitations, quotes out of context and people who don't comment (probably wisely). It hard for me to see what horrible injustice was done to her. Dancers are taken out of ballets, other dancers are put in. Each of those dancers has a story. I'm in no way discounting her feelings or the unhappiness she felt and feels. I wish her well.

[PeggyTulle]

Hey, if my brother decided to probation my birthday party, I would be pretty pissed! I think it's a good example of the personal relationship they had (or didn't have) separate from NYCB. 

[nanushka]

5 minutes ago, bellawood said:

While that no doubt was painful and difficult for her, why is it being reported in the NYT? How is this news for anyone beyond AS's therapist, husband or best friend? 

According to a tweet by one of the authors, this is "the family struggle prickling the NYC dance world."