Abi Stafford's departure from NYCB

[BalanchineFan]

On 5/4/2022 at 3:08 PM, cobweb said:

I was wondering about this from the article: 

"She asked for three years of severance pay, a release from her contract so she could dance elsewhere, and a solo curtain call at her final performance."

The way I read it is that she asked for those things in March 2020 when she first decided to retire. Then the pandemic changed everything.

Edited May 9, 2022 by BalanchineFan
clarity

[On Pointe]

On 5/6/2022 at 11:36 PM, Dancingdemon said:

There are several unclear aspects of this article. That's the fault of the writer(s), not the subject matter. However, I must ask the question, "How many of you on this site have previously or are currently dancing professionally?" Not many, I would assume. So, I think you might not understand. The manner in which she was treated was totally unfair, full stop. She was a long-standing principal dancer with one of the highest-ranked companies on the planet. To be relegated to understudying various parts and also removed from the opening night of her final role is abhorrent. That her estranged brother is leading the organization is the final blow. How do you manage in such a situation? You barely manage, is how. 

Many of us here have danced professionally.  I did for over twenty years.  But the most important aspect of being a professional is professionalism.  When I was first starting out,  I had a friend whose father was a journeyman actor,  the kind you see in second tier roles on Law and Order.  Even in late middle age,  he had to scramble to afford to live in an unfashionable neighborhood in NYC and manage to pay for her years of ballet lessons.  But it paid off because she had been hired by a major company and was getting solo roles right away.

Over dinner she began complaining about aspects of company life,  including decisions made by the artistic director.  But her father stopped her and said,  " Never knock a gig while you're doing it.". (He didn't need to add,  and don't run to the New York Times whenever you don't get your way.  I'm sure there are dancers in other companies who have a beef or two,  but it's curious that NYCB's dancers seem to feature in more negative stories than any other company.)

It's very hard when you come to the realization that you can't dance at the necessary high level any more.  But Abi Stafford had years of security as a well paid principal dancer.  She's married,  with a child and a law degree,  made possible by arrangements the company made years ago to enable the dancers to attain degrees from Fordham while working.  She even told the associate artistic director that she loved the law more than dancing.  Nobody's boss wants to hear that an employee is more invested in something other than what they are getting paid to do.  

Jonathan Stafford did not become artistic director of NYCB to spite his sister.  If his prominence causes her that much pain she needs to talk that out with a therapist,  not a reporter.  He has a career too.  If there are truly terrible aspects to her treatment at NYCB that are not known,  Ms. Stafford is free to present them here.  I believe that we actually want to understand why someone who has attained so much in life is so angry and discontented.

[dirac]

Quote

She even told the associate artistic director that she loved the law more than dancing.  Nobody's boss wants to hear that an employee is more invested in something other than what they are getting paid to do.  

I echo what Helene wrote earlier about the weird insistence that dancers must love what they do above all else in order to do their work well. Also most reasonable bosses understand that their employees do not necessarily seek self-actualization through wage labor and ask only that they focus on their work during those hours they are being paid to do so.

Quote

Displeased her brother and SIL got engaged on her birthday? Sounds like a diva…

There's a lot we don't know about this situation, but the sibling tensions seem to have been of long standing and fairly intense and announcing an engagement on a sibling's birthday would be a  decision to discuss even in more harmonious circumstances. It's not as if there weren't 364 other days out of the calendar to choose from. ("Gee, this might annoy Abi. Okay, we think she's being unreasonable, but let's not go out of our way to stir the pot......") 

[nanushka]

2 hours ago, dirac said:

Also most reasonable bosses understand that their employees do not necessarily seek self-actualization through wage labor and ask only that they focus on their work during those hours they are being paid to do so.

Somehow I doubt this very understanding perspective is that of most ADs at top-tier companies when addressing the principal dancers on their rosters. She apparently said she "no longer loved dancing." That's certainly understandable — but it's going to have an impact on a dancer's career when that's the case. It's very difficult to have a successful career if you view dancing as "wage labor."

2 hours ago, dirac said:

There's a lot we don't know about this situation, but the sibling tensions seem to have been of long standing and fairly intense and announcing an engagement on a sibling's birthday would be a  decision to discuss even in more harmonious circumstances. It's not as if there weren't 364 other days out of the calendar to choose from. ("Gee, this might annoy Abi. Okay, we think she's being unreasonable, but let's not go out of our way to stir the pot......") 

I think it's less about the original feeling and more about the decision to tell a reporter, nearly a decade later, that she was "offended" by this, offering it as a basis for (part of) why she feels she's been mistreated by her brother — who was not even the one with oversight of her casting and employment.

Quote

Mr. Stafford took over, first as interim leader and then as artistic director, with Wendy Whelan as associate artistic director. In an effort to avoid conflicts, Ms. Whelan was given oversight of the casting and employment of Ms. Lillo and Ms. Pollack. But Ms. Lillo came to blame her brother for what she saw as fewer opportunities.

Ok — well, why? If he didn't have oversight, what's the case that's being made? (It can't just be feelings.)

When a new administration comes in, casting priorities often change. That can be terrible for those dancers who fall out of favor — but do NYCB principal contracts promise a baseline number of performances or roles? I'm sure all this caused her "intense emotional distress" — just not $200,000 worth, from the company's pockets.

[dirac]

It's never a good idea to talk to the press when your feelings are raw and Lillo's are plainly so. I don't think the article shows her in a favorable light and I don't think it makes her case for her. I just don't think she's a "diva" for feeling that her bro and his intended could have picked another day back in the day.

Quote

Somehow I doubt this very understanding perspective is that of most ADs at top-tier companies when addressing the principal dancers on their rosters. She apparently said she "no longer loved dancing." That's certainly understandable — but it's going to have an impact on a dancer's career when that's the case. It's very difficult to have a successful career if you view dancing as "wage labor."

I was responding to a comment that made a generic reference to bosses. However, I don't think a dancer should be professionally penalized merely for saying, even to the boss, that she doesn't love dancing anymore - unless it seems to be showing up in that work, which may have been the case with Stafford Lillo. 

"Wage labor" is not necessarily unrewarding labor even if it's not your be-all and end-all. It is quite true, however, that dancers aren't in it for the money because it's not that kind of profession. Still, they are workers who get paid.

[nanushka]

49 minutes ago, dirac said:

I just don't think she's a "diva" for feeling that her bro and his intended could have picked another day back in the day.

Agreed. And I didn't see her perform a lot, but certainly "diva" was never how she came across to me onstage either.

[On Pointe]

In my current line of work,  i deal with a number of people who make a lot of money but aren't crazy about what they do to earn it.  (Spoiler alert - a lot of them are lawyers.)  They are comfortable letting me know that,  but they aren't stupid enough to share that info with their bosses,  or their clients.  Steadily employed,  well paid artists are privileged individuals,  not "wage laborers".  If you don't love dancing more than anything else,  don't put in " face time" at company meetings,  which is what class is in a ballet context,  and turn down roles that are offered to you,  why should anyone care about your dancing?  You don't.  That lack of dedication shows up in performance,  no matter how talented you may be.  Blaming everyone and everything else is illogical.  Expecting a giant payday because you stopped doing what you didn' t care about doing in the first place is ridiculous.

(And really,  what's so special about a 31st birthday?  Twenty-one,  forty or even thirty years are significant milestones for a lot of people,  but thirty-one?  Not so much.)

[cassieallison]

My biggest things is that she was turning down roles, but complaining about a lack of opportunities. Beggers can't be choosers. If you want to be choosy with what you dance you can't expect to be dancing every night

[GB1216]

I have seen Abi Stafford dance twice - both times in Emeralds as the opening night cast.  This was obviously pre-pandemic, and even then she wasn’t dancing that much.  She was lovely, but she was cast so little that at the time I remember thinking - is emeralds the only thing she does? It is obvious the last 5-7 years of her dancing career were fraught with things, and perhaps even before that given her article regarding anxiety.  I am not a dancer but just a fan.  I’m in a corporate job and have dealt with reorgs, displacements, team overhauls, etc.  If I sued every company that caused me emotional distress, I’d be well and truly retired living well before 40.

[Balletwannabe]

At one of my birthday parties a few years ago I had a brother announce big life changing news- I was so happy about it, it didn't occur to me that I was supposed to be upset.  Not that I care if Abi was...I just don't think it's news worthy.  

 

 

Edited May 9, 2022 by Balletwannabe

[abatt]

16 hours ago, nanushka said:

Somehow I doubt this very understanding perspective is that of most ADs at top-tier companies when addressing the principal dancers on their rosters. She apparently said she "no longer loved dancing." That's certainly understandable — but it's going to have an impact on a dancer's career when that's the case. It's very difficult to have a successful career if you view dancing as "wage labor."

I think it's less about the original feeling and more about the decision to tell a reporter, nearly a decade later, that she was "offended" by this, offering it as a basis for (part of) why she feels she's been mistreated by her brother — who was not even the one with oversight of her casting and employment.

Ok — well, why? If he didn't have oversight, what's the case that's being made? (It can't just be feelings.)

When a new administration comes in, casting priorities often change. That can be terrible for those dancers who fall out of favor — but do NYCB principal contracts promise a baseline number of performances or roles? I'm sure all this caused her "intense emotional distress" — just not $200,000 worth, from the company's pockets.

Abi's problems and issues at the company started well before J. Stafford took the reins.  Peter Martins promoted her to principal fairly quickly, and for a period she was doing very good work in many difficult roles.  However, it appears to me that Martins was using her less and less over time, for reasons we will never know.  I forget when exactly Martins stepped away from leadership, but I'm thinking it was around 2017.  Abi's star had already fallen at the company under Martins.  So it's fascinating to me that his name never comes up in the Abi Stafford story.  Really, Jon has been director for very few years, and two of those years the company - and most of the world - was locked down due to Covid.

[cinnamonswirl]

I agree Abi started to be cast less when Martins was still in charge. The article might have been more informative if it had been written by someone with more knowledge of NYCB who had more context and would have asked more questions.

Re the birthday thing -- I imagine that when you have a good relationship with a sibling, you are happy for them even if it's "your" day. But when you already have a strained relationship, anything like that is taken as a slight -- whether or not it was meant as one.

[BalanchineFan]

 

deleted by author

Edited May 10, 2022 by BalanchineFan
redundancy

[Drew]

3 minutes ago, BalanchineFan said:

[...]

I have a different questions based on that statement, and it has nothing to do with management's actions. I don't see it as management making an excuse for not casting her. If someone loves an activity and are pursuing it professionally, like law... as a random example, why would that person be so wounded not to be cast in a ballet? It seems counter to the '$200,000 for emotional distress' argument and counter to the things she told the reporter during her interview half a year after her retirement. 

 

People have complex, mixed, and even contradictory feelings about things that are important to them -- Stafford's feelings may be too.

Speaking publicly about problems at work may be professionally unwise, but Stafford is, at any rate, changing professions. (I am agnostic about whether she faced mistreatment at the company.)

Being a dancer is hard. I know other jobs are hard  too and many of us are acculturated to put up with stuff, and much of it should be put up with because even having a job, especially a good job, a creative and well-paid one, is a gift (in our society anyway).  I also know better than to think that every complaint against management is justified. Being a company director is hard too. Still, in the world of dance, I can't help but feel some human sympathy with those who break the 'thin pink line' now and then. (And putting Stafford's individual case aside, the ballet world can probably use more honesty about several issues.)

As for the Times's role...the fact that the article has generated so much discussion here--even negative discussion--seems to confirm the editor's judgment. People are checking the article out and talking about it.

[Helene]

1 hour ago, BalanchineFan said:

I have a different questions based on that statement, and it has nothing to do with management's actions. I don't see it as management making an excuse for not casting her. If someone loves an activity and are pursuing it professionally, like law... as a random example, why would that person be so wounded not to be cast in a ballet? It seems counter to the '$200,000 for emotional distress' argument and counter to the things she told the reporter during her interview half a year after her retirement. 

Chicken or egg?  Do you not love ballet anymore because you're showing up and doing the work, not getting rewarded, and wondering why you bother, when you find another thing that makes you happy?  

It's also tricky when a former colleague or peer becomes your boss, especially if you had a friendship.  It's easy to forget that your boss is now wearing a management hat, especially when it's new.  But was Whelan even management when she confided in Whelan, if it was driven by Martins' decision to retire?

[nanushka]

7 minutes ago, Helene said:

But was Whelan even management when she confided in Whelan, if it was driven by Martins' decision to retire?

Whelan was management when Stafford went on leave, which is when she made the comment to Whelan (assuming that's the confidence you meant).

Quote

Ms. McKenna wrote that Ms. Lillo had also declined some opportunities and then had gone on leave.

“In connection with that decision, she confided in Ms. Whelan that she no longer loved dancing but rather loved ‘the law,’” Ms. McKenna wrote.

Edited May 9, 2022 by nanushka

[Fleurfairy]

This article does her absolutely no favors. Whelan and Ratmansky's issues were absolutely valid and I did not see anything wrong with how he worded his response/reasoning to her. She was out of commission for years it seemed first with maternity leave then long bouts of injuries, etc. Maybe the better thing to do was retire gracefully before her relationship with her brother reached a breaking point. But grace was completely thrown out the window with this article. 

Whelan  very vocally complained about Martins taking her out of roles after she reached a certain age. Interesting and ironic that now she is on the receiving end of casting complaints. Heavy is the head that wears the crown.