ABT Giselle: Met 2023

[NinaFan]

1 hour ago, stuben said:

......if we are going to watch acting then I would go to the movies and perhaps they should do a Giselle movie. This is a classic and I would hope a principal can deliver all, the techniques and act as Lane, Gomes, etc. .....

 

I'm with you. 

I was reading some of the posts above with regard to acting vs technique with much surprise.   Yes, acting is very important, but it is never a substitute for ballet technique. 

I go to the ballet for ballet and at a company such as ABT, I expect the classics to be danced without major flubs or glaring omissions.  It seems like this has been going on for a while.  When did such a practice ever become the acceptable norm at ABT?   It was always assumed that one could see a ballet danced cleanly and in it’s entirety regardless of cast.    The stage is not a rehearsal space.

[stuben]

21 minutes ago, NinaFan said:

I'm with you. 

I was reading some of the posts above with regard to acting vs technique with much surprise.   Yes, acting is very important, but it is never a substitute for ballet technique. 

I go to the ballet for ballet and at a company such as ABT, I expect the classics to be danced without major flubs or glaring omissions.  It seems like this has been going on for a while.  When did such a practice ever become the acceptable norm at ABT?   It was always assumed that one could see a ballet danced cleanly and in it’s entirety regardless of cast.    The stage is not a rehearsal space.

My thoughts exactly NinaFan - substitute indeed, especially for the classics. And based on the timeliness of the NYTimes article, I feel it was released as a precursor of what to expect (or not expect) for that performance. Don't get me wrong she is a wonderful contemporary dancer but I have second thoughts about her classical limitations for the "traditional ballet" parts. Totally agree with your thought that the stage should not be a rehearsal space! Paying big dollars to watch a "rehearsal" isn't helping the Covid return.

[ABT Fan]

I’m so surprised to read all of this about Trenary’s technique. I wasn’t there yesterday so I cannot comment. In fact, I’ve never seen her Giselle. I did see her Juliet last year, plus her Titania, among other roles and I never thought her technique was lacking, quite the opposite. Perhaps Giselle is not her forte. But, generally speaking I’m of the camp wanting BOTH technical and artistic excellence. 

Edited July 9, 2023 by ABT Fan

[angelica]

1 hour ago, NinaFan said:

 When did such a practice ever become the acceptable norm at ABT? 

 

Perhaps when Misty Copeland couldn't finish 32 fouettés at the end of SL?

 

[NinaFan]

16 minutes ago, ABT Fan said:

I’m so surprised to read all of this about Trenary’s technique. I wasn’t there yesterday so I cannot comment. In fact, I’ve never seen her Giselle. I did see her Juliet last year, plus her Titania, among other roles and I never thought her technique was lacking, quite the opposite. Perhaps Giselle is not her forte. But, generally speaking I’m of the camp wanting BOTH technical and artistic excellence. 

I agree, she is terrific in many roles.   I hope she will get any difficulties ironed out in Giselle.   She is obviously working very hard. 

And yes, I too want both technical and artistic excellence.  The complete package is what works.

Edited July 9, 2023 by NinaFan

[Victura]

I saw both Giselles yesterday and was quite entranced and moved by Trenary’s performance, in a way that I was much less so by Murphy’s despite also liking it quite a bit. Trenary’s only noticeable technical deficiency were the hops on pointe, in which she switched to doing relevés on one foot in time with the music. I personally found that suited the variation just fine, and everything else was performed very well. Having now read the NYTimes profile, I almost wonder if it was a mental lapse after having made the mistake once before. Her portrayal was honest in a way that truly embodied Giselle’s character, and there was a delicacy and subtleness to it, including during the mad scene. 
 

I really enjoyed both performances and appreciated seeing the different casts. Misseldine and Teuscher were both excellent Myrtas. Sunmi Park had a great joy and freedom to her dancing, while Fleytoux was very precise and perhaps a bit careful but performed well, and both worked well with their partners. Whiteside has very clean technique and seemed more boyish/impetuous in the first act. While I initially thought he and Trenary were somewhat of an unusual pairing, I think it worked. From an emotional standpoint, Forster moved me more with his grief. 
 

It was nice to see Stella Abrera and Ethan Stiefel in the audience, and I believe Paloma Herrera was there as well. 

 

[nanushka]

28 minutes ago, ABT Fan said:

But, generally speaking I’m of the camp wanting BOTH technical and artistic excellence. 

Certainly. To my eyes, the flaws in her technique were not so dire as a few others have suggested. The only “glaring omission” I recall was the hops, which she very smoothly transitioned to a sequence of relevés. I certainly don’t have every step memorized but I’ve seen the ballet many times. While not flawless, it seemed to me a fully realized performance — not a rehearsal.

Similarly, while one may prefer one to the other, I think the brisés are a perfectly acceptable alternative to the entrechats. One doesn’t as often get to see the former, especially from a tall dancer, and I thought Whiteside’s looked better than many I’ve seen.

[nysusan]

1 hour ago, angelica said:

 

Perhaps when Misty Copeland couldn't finish 32 fouettés at the end of SL?

 

That was my first thought, too. I remember before that when Veronika Part fell off point during the rose adagio both management and many if not most of us here at BT excoriated her. Then fast forward a year or 2 and Hee Seo completely fell out of the SL pirouettes and management just kept casting her like it was no big deal. Then it was no big deal that Misty can't do the fouettes and now, it seems, Trenary's ok without the hops on point. If the article in the Times is to be believed Jaffe is not concerned that she blew the hops, and this is at least the second time. Everyone makes mistakes and I have no problem if someone blows a bit of the choreography once but if they do it repeatedly and are still cast - well this is how mediocrity happens, and IMO it is most certainly happening at ABT.

 

[abatt]

I didn't see Trenary's Koch debut in Giselle, but I recall that people who did noted that she blew the hops on pointe.  And we know from the NYTimes article that she did the same thing on tour this year.  So yesterday's incident was at least the third time it happened.  Nobody is perfect.  People make mistakes.  But you cannot keep making the same mistake over and over without taking action before thousands of paying customers.  

I too am  surprised because she did well in Ratmansky's SB and in the tricky choreography in Whipped Cream.  She was also quite wonderful with Tharp's company at City Center. 

I had forgotten how  Part was excoriated for coming off pointe in the Rose Adagio. After that, I think she may have gotten one more performance as Aurora, but in all future performances   she was Lilac Fairy.  

For me, the dancing must be in service of the drama.  The drama can never be the most important or impressive aspect of a ballet.   

I don't go to most Copeland performances anymore because I found her execution, or lack of execution, of difficulty choreography a huge problem.  Yesterday watching Trenary I had similar feelings.  

 

[Helene]

I remember far enought back when Carla Fracci was compared, and not in a very good way, to Natalia Makarova, and no American-born ballerina was considered technically proficient except for Cynthia Gregory, who was too athletic and not delicate enough.  

And I'm guessing there are still people on this board who remember the '60's.  

ABT wasn't founded to be a classics only company but that's where the money was.

[Sal]

I haven't seen any of Trenary's Giselle performances, but I have seen her dance in many, many other ballets and have always thought that she has very strong technique. The hops on pointe can be very problematic with ankles and feet like hers (what look to be loose ankles and very flexible, archy feet). And perhaps she has developed a bit of a phobia about them. She's a human -- not a machine -- and I, for one, would much rather see a human dance than a machine  

[California]

A now-retired principal at Colorado Ballet substituted the releve thing for the hops. Those who know the ballet were disappointed, but I guessed that most in the audience didn't know the difference.  The fouette issue has been discussed ad nauseum here and elsewhere and we know there were great dancers who just couldn't do them. So they worked out an impressive substitution and that seemed okay to most. I haven't seen Trenary's hops, but from what I read here, I almost wish she would just work out a good substitution and let it go at that. It's also painful to watch those who barely move on the hops and cut them short when you know what's possible - which sounds like what Murphy did. (Shevchenko, as I remember from earlier performances, covered lots of territory in great form, as does Osipova.) It's worst when somebody starts the famous move, falls apart and then seems to scramble with something else to fill out the music. Better to just plan ahead with the substitution. (As Julia Child reportedly once said: however it comes out of the kitchen, that's what you intended.)

[Helene]

4 minutes ago, California said:

(As Julia Child reportedly once said: however it comes out of the kitchen, that's what you intended.)

It's a feature, not a bug.

Same in knitting, too!

[fondoffouettes]

1 hour ago, abatt said:

I had forgotten how  Part was excoriated for coming off pointe in the Rose Adagio. After that, I think she may have gotten one more performance as Aurora, but in all future performances   she was Lilac Fairy. 

If I remember correctly, she fell off pointe in the Rose Adagio excerpt that ABT included in its spring gala in 2007, the year the Kirkland production premiered. She then went on to perform in the premiere of the full production later that season, I believe without incident (I was there, but alas, I mostly remember the gaudy production). I believe I saw her dance Aurora every time they revived the Kirkland production; her rose adagios could be tense affairs, but she never fell off pointe again. She and Gomes danced the final performance of that production in 2013, before it was retired, and she was glorious. She then began dancing only Lilac Fairy when Ratmansky created his reconstruction. 

Edited July 10, 2023 by fondoffouettes

[choriamb]

I saw Trenary's debut in Giselle at the Koch and saw nothing to gripe with other than the hops on pointe (which she exited without stalling or looking lost). And her Act II entrance turns were the fastest that I've seen at ABT...an absolute blur.

It's kind of remarkable given how consistently she's already been used as a clutch ballerina to stabilize younger men. (Even this season's pairings with more experienced dancers looks like less of a gift when you consider that they were the two men most likely to require a subsitution due to recent injury.) I'm eager to see what she'll do technically if she begins getting paired with Camargo, Bell, or Royal more frequently.

I actually love seeing Trenary and Murphy in the same role back-to-back, like in that first pre-COVID Giselle and in The Dream last year. They just seem to galvanize the whole cast...in totally different ways. When Murphy's on, everyone's dancing and mime becomes razor-sharp:  they suddenly remember that stage performance is about projecting effectively to your audience. When Trenary's on, everyone looks looser and engages with everyone else on stage more:  they suddenly remember that stage performance is about believable interactions. It's like a living comparison of what experience and classical stagecraft get you compared to what natural showmanship and modern theaterical training get you.

BTW, what was Murphy's mad scene like this year? ABT had revived Pillar of Fire that first pre-COVID Koch season and I thought that Murphy seemed to draw from it in an extremely intelligent way:  it was less about madness and more about shame...not wanting to be seen (which plays well with the ballet's themes). She started by just standing with her back to the audience clutching herself until it became uncomfortable:  maximum effect, no histrionics required.

Edited July 10, 2023 by choriamb

[volcanohunter]

I'm sorry the muffed hops were mentioned in the NYT profile. I suspect a lot of people went to Trenary's performance with a heightened interest in how the diagonal would work out.

For what it's worth, I've seen Svetlana Zakharova and Evgenia Obraztsova fall off pointe during the hops, on more than one occasion. They simply continued with ballonnés.

Jillian Vanstone was a wonderful Giselle who had a bad left knee and couldn't do hops for the duration, so she devised an alternate diagonal, and it didn't detract from her performance in the slightest, in no small part because of the imagination she brought to all of the choreography. 

[BalletFan]

I saw four performances of Giselle this week with four different casts: Teuscher/Bell; Brandt/Cornejo; Boylston/Ahn; & Murphy/Forster. Maybe they have lost some of their technical skills, but Gillian Murphy was my favorite Giselle and Herman Cornejo was by far my favorite Albrecht. They drew me in from the very beginning, and Herman's performance, in particular, brought tears to my eyes. Thomas Forster has never been one of my favorites, but he was surprisingly good as Albrecht. I am now looking forward to seeing him dance other roles. And Jarod Curley was excellent as Hilarion. He is an immensely talented young dancer with great technique as well as great stage presence. Andrii Ischuk, another promising young dancer, was also very good as Hilarion. Also, while I thought that Devon Teuscher was a very good Giselle, she was an even better Myrta.

I agree with NinaFan that when I go to see a company like ABT, I expect the complete package--both technical and artistic excellence. I saw Cassandra's debut as Giselle in 2021. Normally, she is one of my favorites dancers, but I remember being disappointed in her interpretation and some of her dancing. To be honest, perhaps Giselle is just not the right role for her. Management should not continue to gloss over her mistakes, in my opinion.

Edited July 10, 2023 by BalletFan

[nanushka]

33 minutes ago, BalletFan said:

Management should not continue to gloss over her mistakes, in my opinion.

I'm not clear on what the mistakes are, though. So far the only mistake I can recall being mentioned above from yesterday's performance is the hops. I also mentioned the Act 2 side-by-side assemblés, but there wasn't a mistake — they were just rather small. My impression of the performance was that the elements, in general, were all there — other than the hops. (As I've said, though, I don't have a perfectly step complete knowledge of the choreography)  There were some elements (e.g. the dedans/dehors turns (with the music), the slow penchés, the opening spin in Act 2) that were quite good, I thought; there were a good number of elements that I thought were just fine, though. That's why, to me, it was not a very technically strong performance. By no means did it seem among the lower 50% of technical performances I've seen in ABT full-lengths, especially in recent years. It sounds like her artistic interpretation has grown a lot since she did the piece before; I found it to be extremely compelling. That doesn't mean I value artistry more than technique; it doesn't mean I don't want to see both. But I haven't gotten a clear sense of why people found her performance to be so very inapt, and inept, by the standards of ABT performances.

Edited July 10, 2023 by nanushka

[Rose1186]

I agree, Nanushka, and regarding the comments about technique vs artistry… I just want to add that classical ballet technique is not just fouettés and hops on pointe… it’s clean lines, turnout, port de bras, placement, etc. So, I think that Trenary has very strong technique, regardless of any particular steps that haven’t gone to plan. I thought her act two was pretty technically flawless, and particularly graceful/floaty and musical, all besides the artistry she brings to it.

(AND, I know everyone prefers to see entrechat sixes from Albrecht, but when men choose to do brises, no one here says they shouldn’t be able to do the role anymore..?)

Obviously art is subjective and to each their own - we all have our favorite styles and interpretations, and we pick and choose what casts we want to see most, but personally I don’t go to see a Giselle performance to see someone do hops on pointe, so I definitely wouldn’t let a small (and IMHO prettier) alternative step ruin an otherwise beautiful and satisfying performance.

[California]

5 minutes ago, Rose1186 said:

(AND, I know everyone prefers to see entrechat sixes from Albrecht, but when men choose to do brises, no one here says they shouldn’t be able to do the role anymore..?)

Maybe I'm part of a small minority, but I much prefer the brises, which we saw with Baryshnikov. They work best with shorter men. Dramatically, Albrecht is looking at Myrtha as he progresses, under her command. For the entrechats, he has to turn away from her and look forward to the audience. 

[nanushka]

31 minutes ago, California said:

Maybe I'm part of a small minority, but I much prefer the brises, which we saw with Baryshnikov. They work best with shorter men. Dramatically, Albrecht is looking at Myrtha as he progresses, under her command. For the entrechats, he has to turn away from her and look forward to the audience. 

Yes but on the other hand the uninterrupted entrechats are so much more evocative of Albrecht’s fated compulsion to dance. I always feel torn! — each option is compelling in its own way, when very well done.

Edited July 10, 2023 by nanushka

[Marta]

55 minutes ago, California said:

Maybe I'm part of a small minority, but I much prefer the brises, which we saw with Baryshnikov. They work best with shorter men. Dramatically, Albrecht is looking at Myrtha as he progresses, under her command. For the entrechats, he has to turn away from her and look forward to the audience. 

I also much prefer the brisés, which Baryshnikov did so brilliantly.  I think dramatically the brisés communicate compulsion and desperation while the entrechats being essentially in one plane are more static. Hallberg about 10 years ago performed 32 [I think] entrechats beautifully, but I confess they did not move me.  

[abatt]

I liked Murphy's Giselle.  She is not as strong as she used to be, but she is still a formidable dancer.  She has considerable experience as Giselle, but not with ABT.  When Steifel ran Royal New Zealand ballet she did Giselle many times with that company.  She and Forster make a good couple.  I liked their work together better than when they did Giselle together at the Koch back in 2021.  She is not a histrionic scenery chewing Giselle in the mad scene.  She is more self contained, which worked well.   

Since Giselle is only revived every two years or so, I'm wondering if we have seen the last Giselle performances from  Cornejo, Murphy and possibly Forster.  

Did anyone else notice that Misseldine does two full circle of jumps around the stage in her last big solo as Myrta, whereas Devon circles around once and then kills time waving her arms around near Giselle's grave to wait out the time until the next bit of choreography.  She is a strong dancer who managed to correct her issues over the course of her four performances and immensely improved her performance.  Good work Chloe!

 

Edited July 10, 2023 by abatt

[Helene]

For critics reviews, please see this thread in Writings on Ballet:

 

 

[volcanohunter]

1 hour ago, Rose1186 said:

(AND, I know everyone prefers to see entrechat sixes from Albrecht, but when men choose to do brises, no one here says they shouldn’t be able to do the role anymore..?)

The wrinkle here, if reconstructions of Giselle are accurate, is that the entrechat six are not in the notated choreography, while the diagonal of hops is.

I hate the entrechat six ("static" indeed, boring and circusy) and am firmly in the brisé camp, but they're not part of the original choreography either.

47 minutes ago, Marta said:

Hallberg about 10 years ago performed 32 [I think] entrechats beautifully, but I confess they did not move me.  

I think the greatest number I've seen were 36 from Karl Paquette, and when he went four beats over the allotted music, it ejected me straight out of the drama.