Like Water For Chocolate Segerstrom Center 3/29-4/2

[ksk04]

I thought it was weird, too, Josette, but I guess it's not like they have any competing dance programming right now.

When I bought my tickets for SCFTA, it seemed like the Loge and Balcony areas were not on offer for sale which suggests they didn't expect great ticket sales even for this run--not sure how that will correlate to the Met programming. The Balcony is frequently not opened, but I don't think I've ever seen a dance performance that closed the Loge as well. Maybe this has changed in the last few weeks and they are opening more sections.

[AB'sMom]

Wow! I have never seen this for an ABT performance at Segerstrom. Loge and Balcony both closed and the performances start in less than two weeks. There were plenty of seats available at a discount on GoldStar, too.

[California]

6 hours ago, AB'sMom said:

Wow! I have never seen this for an ABT performance at Segerstrom. Loge and Balcony both closed and the performances start in less than two weeks. There were plenty of seats available at a discount on GoldStar, too.

Shocking! Somebody must be losing sleep over the 12 performances at the Met! Do any old-timers remember late schedule revisions for something like this? Maybe a few more Giselle's, which is scheduled for the next week?

https://www.abt.org/performances/master-calendar/?start=2023-03-22

[matilda]

In my view this Like Water for Chocolate ticket situation was entirely predictable. Doesn't necessarily mean the Met sales will be bad, but it's not a good sign. To fill the Met for 12 performances would require selling more than 45,000 tickets. Hmmm. The book and movie don't have a whole lot of mainstream appeal decades after their releases, and just because something is popular in the UK (at the nation's top ballet company, no less) doesn't mean it will do well here.

Interested in hearing reports! Hopefully some positive word gets spread from the West coast to East. 

[nanushka]

7 minutes ago, matilda said:

In my view this Like Water for Chocolate ticket situation was entirely predictable. Doesn't necessarily mean the Met sales will be bad, but it's not a good sign. To fill the Met for 12 performances would require selling more than 45,000 tickets.

It would be one thing if ABT had a highly competent marketing operation, but I think we all know that's not the case. I agree, entirely predictable. With this company, it seems like it's just one unforced error after another in recent years. I'm really hoping Susan Jaffe can turn things around.

[Olga]

Did Jaffe program this Summer at the Met? 

[Mashinka]

I doubt it will do well in the US.  It simply isn't a very good ballet in my opinion.  I'm sure some will like it though.

[fondoffouettes]

The only analogous situation I can think of is in 2017, when ABT programmed 12 performances of Whipped Cream. If I recall correctly, it sold extremely well; I remember attending performances where the Met was nearly sold-out. However, the performances were split into two runs, with four performances in the second week and eight in the seventh week, which allowed buzz to build from word of mouth and press. Also, ABT also put more significant marketing efforts into Whipped Cream than is typical for the company. Ratmansky and the score were draws for balletomanes, while Mark Ryden's designs were draws for fans of his art. And it was family-friendly.

I don't see things coming together in a similarly successful fashion for Like Water for Chocolate. I have little interest in seeing the work based on the source material, choreographer, and composer. 

[nysusan]

7 hours ago, California said:

Shocking! Somebody must be losing sleep over the 12 performances at the Met! Do any old-timers remember late schedule revisions for something like this? Maybe a few more Giselle's, which is scheduled for the next week?

https://www.abt.org/performances/master-calendar/?start=2023-03-22

 

5 hours ago, matilda said:

In my view this Like Water for Chocolate ticket situation was entirely predictable. Doesn't necessarily mean the Met sales will be bad, but it's not a good sign. To fill the Met for 12 performances would require selling more than 45,000 tickets. Hmmm. The book and movie don't have a whole lot of mainstream appeal decades after their releases, and just because something is popular in the UK (at the nation's top ballet company, no less) doesn't mean it will do well here.

Interested in hearing reports! Hopefully some positive word gets spread from the West coast to East. 

The first thing that crossed my mind when I saw that they had scheduled 12 performances of LWFC  was - what in the world were they thinking? If every ABT subscriber goes to see it twice (which they won't) they would still have to sell an enormous number of tickets to fill the house 12 times. Even if it gets rave reviews how many casual ballet goers and members of the general public will those reviews and any marketing draw to the Met? I hope I am wrong but I think this will be a huge disaster.

The second thing that crossed my mind was that with a season reduced to only 4 weeks they're dedicating almost 2 full weeks to LWFC instead of giving us more of what their core audience wants? More Petipa, Ashton, MavMillon etc.

[lacdescygnes]

20 hours ago, nysusan said:

 

The first thing that crossed my mind when I saw that they had scheduled 12 performances of LWFC  was - what in the world were they thinking? If every ABT subscriber goes to see it twice (which they won't) they would still have to sell an enormous number of tickets to fill the house 12 times. Even if it gets rave reviews how many casual ballet goers and members of the general public will those reviews and any marketing draw to the Met? I hope I am wrong but I think this will be a huge disaster.

The second thing that crossed my mind was that with a season reduced to only 4 weeks they're dedicating almost 2 full weeks to LWFC instead of giving us more of what their core audience wants? More Petipa, Ashton, MavMillon etc.

I couldn't agree more

And I'm selfishly glad it's not LWFC they're bringing to the Kennedy Center in 2024 but Swan Lake! [I live in DC]

[theo]

Totally agree about the Kennedy Center!  They sold out most of the performances of R&J this year.  I know ABT is looking for new audiences, but as many people have noted here ,   much of their established audience wants to see the classics  from them.    NYCB and a plethora of decent regional companies offer a wide variety of less classical, as well as new and contemporary work.   ABT's failure to understand their audience is going to continue to hurt them.   I do hope they reconsider the Met season and remove some of the LWFC performances in favor of either something they're  already doing this year, or maybe even add  SB or DQ.  The later is probably logistically and financially unfeasible at this stage of the game though.   

[ABT Fan]

It wouldn’t be original or even ideal, but they could absolutely cut Chocolate down to one week and just add 4 or so more SL performances. We all know SL sells and at this late stage they probably don’t have time to start rehearsing a different ballet (or ballets) to add. This would also give dancers more than one shot in SL and/or they could throw in some much needed debuts (Trenary for one).

[bingham]

36 minutes ago, ABT Fan said:

It wouldn’t be original or even ideal, but they could absolutely cut Chocolate down to one week and just add 4 or so more SL performances. We all know SL sells and at this late stage they probably don’t have time to start rehearsing a different ballet (or ballets) to add. This would also give dancers more than one shot in SL and/or they could throw in some much needed debuts (Trenary for one).

In total agreement to above suggestions. The current programming was probably done before Susan Jaffe took over?

[fondoffouettes]

22 minutes ago, bingham said:

In total agreement to above suggestions. The current programming was probably done before Susan Jaffe took over?

The Royal Opera lists it as a co-production with ABT, so ABT must have had this project in the pipeline for several years. I assume their co-production agreement specifies a certain number of performances at ABT. I assume they'd have to eat some costs if they don't perform all 12 performances, though I'm not sure. I'm guessing it could be a logistical nightmare to adjust their Met season at this point. They'd have to depend on the Met box office to adjust affected subscriptions, though I guess the Met already does that sort of thing for them...

https://www.roh.org.uk/tickets-and-events/36/like-water-for-chocolate-by-christopher-wheeldon/cast-list/49229

Edited to add: If ABT were to cancel performances of Like Water for Chocolate, it would show a lack of confidence in the artistic product. It's not a great look for a company. I feel like companies will paper the house before they cancel a performance. But, if sales are abysmal, who knows...

Edited March 21, 2023 by fondoffouettes

[California]

2 hours ago, fondoffouettes said:

The Royal Opera lists it as a co-production with ABT, so ABT must have had this project in the pipeline for several years. I assume their co-production agreement specifies a certain number of performances at ABT. I assume they'd have to eat some costs if they don't perform all 12 performances, though I'm not sure. I'm guessing it could be a logistical nightmare to adjust their Met season at this point. They'd have to depend on the Met box office to adjust affected subscriptions, though I guess the Met already does that sort of thing for them...

https://www.roh.org.uk/tickets-and-events/36/like-water-for-chocolate-by-christopher-wheeldon/cast-list/49229

Edited to add: If ABT were to cancel performances of Like Water for Chocolate, it would show a lack of confidence in the artistic product. It's not a great look for a company. I feel like companies will paper the house before they cancel a performance. But, if sales are abysmal, who knows...

ABT on Tour this spring has some mixed bills in Stony Brook, Chicago, Iowa City in various combinations: Song of Bukovina, Touche, Some Assembly Required, Zig-Zag, R&J PdD, Black Swan. Not the most exciting substitutions, but depending on casting, might sell. Depending on how bad things are, they would not be hard to substitute, as none require a fancy set. 

The Ratmansky Tempest was billed as a co-production of ABT and National Ballet of Canada. But NBC never performed it, instead doing some or all of the Ratmansky Trilogy. Every contract is different, but it looks like NBC decided that Tempest was such a loser they'd pay whatever price they needed to avoid showing it. 

[angelica]

4 hours ago, ABT Fan said:

It wouldn’t be original or even ideal, but they could absolutely cut Chocolate down to one week and just add 4 or so more SL performances. We all know SL sells and at this late stage they probably don’t have time to start rehearsing a different ballet (or ballets) to add. This would also give dancers more than one shot in SL and/or they could throw in some much needed debuts (Trenary for one).

I am a subscriber, but I would definitely buy an extra ticket to see Trenary dance SL, in addition to the two SLs I'm already seeing.

But if they were to cancel some of the LWFC performances, it would be a slap in the face to Wheeldon, which I can't imagine any company doing.

[miliosr]

5 hours ago, fondoffouettes said:

Edited to add: If ABT were to cancel performances of Like Water for Chocolate, it would show a lack of confidence in the artistic product. It's not a great look for a company. I feel like companies will paper the house before they cancel a performance. But, if sales are abysmal, who knows...

1 hour ago, angelica said:

But if they were to cancel some of the LWFC performances, it would be a slap in the face to Wheeldon, which I can't imagine any company doing.

Apart from the logistical difficulties and potential financial penalties involved with changing the Met schedule at this point, no way would ABT management humiliate a 'name' choreographer like Wheeldon by reducing the number of shows. It's not even about Wheeldon himself, who is irrelevant to ABT's past, present and future. Cutting off a choreographer of Wheeldon's stature (overrated as that stature may be) at the knees would really cast ABT in a bad light within the industry.

[ABT Fan]

38 minutes ago, miliosr said:

Apart from the logistical difficulties and potential financial penalties involved with changing the Met schedule at this point, no way would ABT management humiliate a 'name' choreographer like Wheeldon by reducing the number of shows. It's not even about Wheeldon himself, who is irrelevant to ABT's past, present and future. Cutting off a choreographer of Wheeldon's stature (overrated as that stature may be) at the knees would really cast ABT in a bad light within the industry.

This makes sense. I had also never considered that there could be financial penalties to revising the number of performances. It's all really unfortunate. Even before we saw the dismal sales in CA, many of us could not fathom a week and a half of a new ballet at the Met. I hope Jaffe will make better programming decisions for next year than McKenzie has saddled us with.

[volcanohunter]

1 hour ago, miliosr said:

Cutting off a choreographer of Wheeldon's stature (overrated as that stature may be) at the knees would really cast ABT in a bad light within the industry.

And yet the National Ballet of Canada appears to have done it twice to Ratmansky. It commissioned a Romeo and Juliet from him (ditching a classic, longstanding production), because it hoped the ballet would garner international attention and tours (except that London critics weren't overly impressed).

But it turned down its co-production of The Tempest (opting for two-thirds of the Shostakovich trilogy instead), and so far it hasn't programmed Of Love and Rage, and I'm not sure an alternative such as Harlequinade would sell (though it seems to have gone over very well in Australia and is about to premiere in Vilnius).

The company's two Wheeldon co-productions, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland and The Winter's Tale, have done well, and after the most recent McGregor, a fourth co-production with the Royal Ballet is forthcoming. So however bumpy its track record with Ratmansky has been, it hasn't destroyed inter-company relations.

[miliosr]

1 hour ago, volcanohunter said:

But it turned down its co-production of The Tempest (opting for two-thirds of the Shostakovich trilogy instead)

I think the difference between Like Water for Chocolate and The Tempest is that the former was a big, big hit for the Royal Ballet while the latter was - at best - an indifferently received vehicle for ABT. It was in the interests of the National Ballet of Canada and Alexei Ratmansky to avoid a potentially embarrassing flop for both parties by agreeing to swap out The Tempest for a part of Shostakovich Trilogy.

Unfortunately, ABT doesn't have as much leeway with Like Water for Chocolate. Above and beyond any legal agreements they may have with Wheeldon, it would look strange indeed if they cut back on performances for a new work which was actually quite a hit in London. (Of course, all of this raises the question of why ABT would sign on to co-commission this in the first place given how other mime dramas with dancing - like Cathy Marston's Jane Eyre - didn't exactly establish themselves with ABT's audience.)

[volcanohunter]

Perhaps ABT is hoping that Wheeldon's work on Broadway will attract audiences. But what sells in New York may not sell in Orange County. And what works in London doesn't necessarily work in New York. It's one of my great frustrations that Ashton doesn't seem to stick in New York.

[miliosr]

10 hours ago, volcanohunter said:

Perhaps ABT is hoping that Wheeldon's work on Broadway will attract audiences.

We'll see if Christopher Wheeldon's 'name' is enough to get people into seats at the Met. My sense about MJ is that Michael Jackson's music is the draw for audiences.

10 hours ago, volcanohunter said:

It's one of my great frustrations that Ashton doesn't seem to stick in New York.

Alas, Ashton isn't the draw in New York that he used to be. Of his longer story ballets in ABT's repertory, Fille and The Dream do OK-ish on their occasional airings. But Cinderella (with all its mime) has become a harder sell and Sylvia wasn't able to establish itself securely in the repertory.

Honestly, I think the better part of ABT's Met audience would be perfectly happy to see Giselle, Swan Lake, Romeo & Juliet, Don Q, La Bayadere and Manon year after year after year.

Edited March 22, 2023 by miliosr

[stuben]

39 minutes ago, miliosr said:

We'll see if Christopher Wheeldon's 'name' is enough to get people into seats at the Met. My sense about MJ is that Michael Jackson's music is the draw for audiences.

Alas, Ashton isn't the draw in New York that he used to be. Of his longer story ballets in ABT's repertory, Fille and The Dream do OK-ish on their occasional airings. But Cinderella (with all its mime) has become a harder sell and Sylvia wasn't able to establish itself securely in the repertory.

Honestly, I think the better part of ABT's Met audience would be perfectly happy to see Giselle, Swan Lake, Romeo & Juliet, Don Q, La Bayadere and Manon year after year after year.

Oh, I would love it if they revisit Manon again or even something joyous as Massine's Gaîté Parisienne. IMHO the problem is the current crop of principals and soloists are good technically but many just don't project the emotions for these ballets that require more miming.

[California]

1 hour ago, miliosr said:

Honestly, I think the better part of ABT's Met audience would be perfectly happy to see Giselle, Swan Lake, Romeo & Juliet, Don Q, La Bayadere and Manon year after year after year.

I'd add Onegin to the list of works I'd be happy to see again and again. I fear that Bayadere would run into problems with protesters (cf. Paris). 

A more "traditional" Sleeping Beauty would sell, but I'm not sure about the Ratmansky reconstruction -- all that demi-pointe, no fish dives. Alas, they'd have to go back to the Kirkland version, which had problems of its own. 

[bingham]

13 hours ago, volcanohunter said:

Perhaps ABT is hoping that Wheeldon's work on Broadway will attract audiences. But what sells in New York may not sell in Orange County. And what works in London doesn't necessarily work in New York. It's one of my great frustrations that Ashton doesn't seem to stick in New York.

La Fille Mal Gardée, a favorite in London and Europe doesn’t sell in NYC. Too bad , ABT has several possible Lise in the company now.