Jump to content
canbelto

Winter 2018

Recommended Posts

On the flipside, I was a little surprised how thin/bony Sterling Hyltin looked in the final performance of Symphony in Three Movements (but not scary-skinny in a Whelan sort of way). I guess I've seen her in lots of non-leotard ballets, where it's not as obvious. And I suppose by the end of a grueling season, it's likely for a dancer to be at his her her lowest normal weight. She looked lovely, as always; it's just an observation.

Share this post


Link to post

My general impression this season: more than a few dancers could lose five pounds and more than a few could gain five pounds. 

But many, many more than a few are dancing with all the power, musicality, and artistry that one could ask for, and that's a good thing. 

Share this post


Link to post

The most important critique you can make about a dancer is their dancing ability, musicality and stage presence -- weight comments, at the 5 pound mark, are not valid and, in fact, are very detrimental to the mental health and psyche of all dancers.  

Share this post


Link to post

Diversity is an emphasis for this company.  Not just diversity of color, but diversity of dancing styles, musicality, thinking, and body types.  I embrace the fact that this is not a homogeneous group of white, emaciated, string beans.  We need to encourage this diversity to protect mental health amongst our dancers.  

Share this post


Link to post
3 minutes ago, nicolc said:

The most important critique you can make about a dancer is their dancing ability, musicality and stage presence -- weight comments, at the 5 pound mark, are not valid and, in fact, are very detrimental to the mental health and psyche of all dancers.  

Thanks for reminding us of that.  One may not like a dancer because they are too thin, too bulky, have hyperextended legs, fill in the blank.  These are all minor objections really. It's about what they do with their body,

Share this post


Link to post
16 minutes ago, Marta said:

One may not like a dancer because they are too thin, too bulky, have hyperextended legs, fill in the blank.  These are all minor objections really.

But, as you say, they do at times play into our likes and dislikes — which seem fair to bring up. I don't think doing so is necessarily an attack on their mental health, so long as it's done with a due sense of proportion and respect.

Edited by nanushka

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, nicolc said:

The most important critique you can make about a dancer is their dancing ability, musicality and stage presence -- weight comments, at the 5 pound mark, are not valid and, in fact, are very detrimental to the mental health and psyche of all dancers.  

Agreed. I find the discussion here about dancers' weight inappropriate and potentially harmful. 

Share this post


Link to post
3 hours ago, nicolc said:

The most important critique you can make about a dancer is their dancing ability, musicality and stage presence -- weight comments, at the 5 pound mark, are not valid and, in fact, are very detrimental to the mental health and psyche of all dancers.  

 

1 hour ago, Sal said:

Agreed. I find the discussion here about dancers' weight inappropriate and potentially harmful. 

 

"Not valid" and "inappropriate" by what standards? My initial inclination is to disagree. Such comments seem to me, as I've said, not inherently unfair to raise — and certainly many of the things that many of us say here are potentially harmful to someone. It's difficult to critique art and performance without running that risk.

And “very detrimental to the mental health and psyche of all dancers” seems presumptuous to me. 

But I'm curious to hear alternate opinions.

Edited by nanushka

Share this post


Link to post

When I see a leotard look loose on a dancer (how is that even possible?), I can’t help but be distracted by it, as well as by lots of protruding bones (as was the case with Hyltin).

I judge her first and foremost on her dancing, but I’m also looking at her, the instrument.

It’s not our responsibility as audience members to be looking out for these dancers’ mental health.

 

Edited by fondoffouettes

Share this post


Link to post

[Moderator beanie on]

If you think a discussion does not comply with policy, use the "report" option for the post, and we will review it.  If we agree, we'll do something about it.  If we don't, we'll leave the post stand.

Discussing the discussion is against policy, unless you are a Moderator or Admin in that role.

[Moderator beanie off]

Share this post


Link to post

Hmm Nytimes just published this photo. She's certainly thin but her bones don't protrude any more than Adrian's.

merlin_134925693_7a6afa0e-aac1-4914-b9ac

 

Compare this with Wendy. This photo actually does make me uncomfortable to look at and I say this as someone who considers Wendy's Symphony in Three to be the best I ever saw.

jocksoto_wendywhelan+in+Symphony+in+3.jp

Edited by canbelto

Share this post


Link to post

I really don't get the critisism of Wendy.  I have a body like that.  My spine is visible, ribs show when I bend a certain way, and hip bones stick out.  Some of us are just built that way.  I mean I get it if it's aethstetically displeasing to people; but I think people like to criticize her because they think she promotes an unhealthy body.  She could in fact, be healthier than some dancers people consider the picture of health. 

Share this post


Link to post
4 hours ago, nicolc said:

Diversity is an emphasis for this company.  Not just diversity of color, but diversity of dancing styles, musicality, thinking, and body types.  I embrace the fact that this is not a homogeneous group of white, emaciated, string beans.  We need to encourage this diversity to protect mental health amongst our dancers.  

I don't think NYCB has a diversity of dancing styles.  That's why they hire almost all of the main company from SAB, where all the students have learned  Balanchine technique.

Share this post


Link to post
36 minutes ago, canbelto said:

Hmm Nytimes just published this photo. She's certainly thin but her bones don't protrude any more than Adrian's.

Compare this with Wendy. This photo actually does make me uncomfortable to look at and I say this as someone who considers Wendy's Symphony in Three to be the best I ever saw.

 

2

My thoughts were based on how she looked in motion. She looked very thin, more so than usual. But yes, it wasn't at all like Whelan.

Share this post


Link to post

I think weight warnings at NYCB may now be a thing of the past, since complaints about Martins'  handling of weight issues was one of the things that brought Martins' tenure to an end.   If you give a weight warning as a manager, you may either risk being the subject of an abuse investigation or become the subject of a NY Times article about how mean and insensitive you are. Going forward,  perhaps those in the company who are not regulating their weight/fitness on their own will simply not have their contracts renewed.  Management does not have to give a reason for nonrenewal of a contract.  These days, the less said by a manager about the grounds for nonrenewal, the better.

Edited by abatt

Share this post


Link to post

As audience members, we can't help but notice and respond to how the dancers look, i.e., their bodies. That's just part of the art form. It's not the most important aspect of dancing - I like what Kathleen said above, about power, musicality, and artistry. But inevitably, we have opinions about the dancers' bodies. I too noticed the extra weight on the two corps ladies mentioned, and Tiler Peck may have a pound or so more than she used to. I noticed, but I didn't find any of this especially distracting. I find Sterling Hyltin too thin and bony, whereas Maria Kowroski and Teresa Reichlen have been looking extremely svelte, but soft at the same time. Quite beautiful.  

Share this post


Link to post
38 minutes ago, cobweb said:

As audience members, we can't help but notice and respond to how the dancers look, i.e., their bodies. That's just part of the art form. It's not the most important aspect of dancing - I like what Kathleen said above, about power, musicality, and artistry. But inevitably, we have opinions about the dancers' bodies. I too noticed the extra weight on the two corps ladies mentioned, and Tiler Peck may have a pound or so more than she used to. I noticed, but I didn't find any of this especially distracting. I find Sterling Hyltin too thin and bony, whereas Maria Kowroski and Teresa Reichlen have been looking extremely svelte, but soft at the same time. Quite beautiful.  

Agree cobweb, it's part of the art form. A dancer's body is his/her instrument. Along with all of this, viewers have biases in respect to body types. Some prefer tall dancers, others a muscular look. As a personal example, David Hallberg has my least favorite body type for a male dancer. When I watch him I have to force myself to go beyond my natural inclination and  and judge his performances. 

In terms of body weight, it is complicated for a dancer. There is the pressure of self judging, the opinions of ballet masters etc, finding a weight for maintaining optimum strength.  The right diet and cross training regime can be a difficult balance. Hopefully the 2 corps members being referred to will get there.

Share this post


Link to post

The weight issues have also been mentioned in relation to two male principals - the Angle brothers.

Share this post


Link to post

Jared especially. For some years now he looks like he's been sampling the entire realm of sweets, or whatever it was. Doesn't stop me from enjoying the nobility of his dancing, but I think he'd have more spring and get more height if he reduced.  

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, cobweb said:

Jared especially. For some years now he looks like he's been sampling the entire realm of sweets, or whatever it was. Doesn't stop me from enjoying the nobility of his dancing, but I think he'd have more spring and get more height if he reduced.  

I didn't see Jared this past season, but I did see Tyler, and I would say the same about him.

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, vipa said:

 As a personal example, David Hallberg has my least favorite body type for a male dancer. When I watch him I have to force myself to go beyond my natural inclination and  and judge his performances. 

Vipa, are you talking about the "old" David Hallberg, before his rehab in Australia, or the "new" David Hallberg, who is much more muscular in his upper body, and presumably stronger, than before?

Share this post


Link to post
20 hours ago, abatt said:

I don't think NYCB has a diversity of dancing styles.  That's why they hire almost all of the main company from SAB, where all the students have learned  Balanchine technique.

Even within that training, there is great diversity of style and technique!!!  How can you notice bodies to comment on "one pound or five pounds" and not notice the diversity of style and technique within the company????  Seems like we emphasize too much on body weight and less on dancing.  

Edited by nicolc

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, angelica said:

Vipa, are you talking about the "old" David Hallberg, before his rehab in Australia, or the "new" David Hallberg, who is much more muscular in his upper body, and presumably stronger, than before?

Thanks for making the point angelica. To my taste the "new" is preferable to the old, but still not my favorite look for a male dancer.

Share this post


Link to post

I like a strong dancer.  The extra muscle makes for higher jumps, faster dancing and quicker petite allegro steps.  

We don’t have access to dancers’ medical files, so we don’t know their health concerns.  

Edited by Jayne
Damned autocorrect!

Share this post


Link to post
22 hours ago, abatt said:

I don't think NYCB has a diversity of dancing styles.  That's why they hire almost all of the main company from SAB, where all the students have learned  Balanchine technique.

Disagree.  There is a huge diversity within the style as well.  Why isn't Sara Mearns the same as Ashley Bouder the same as Megan Fairchild?  They all graduated from SAB.  It's Because of DIVERSITY!!!!

Share this post


Link to post
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...