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aurora

Senior Member
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Everything posted by aurora

  1. I'm with Drew in liking Ratmansky's firebird a lot! I'm looking forward to it.
  2. I thought last night was really magical. I'm so glad I was there.
  3. But I was quoted and then misinterpreted. why would the victim learn compassion from being victimized? Or was it Copely who would have from being called out... I actually can't understand what Vs1 was saying.
  4. This whole conversation literally makes no sense. I was speaking to an earlier commenter on this thread who said they had experienced sexual harassment and yet was castigating the person who reported Copely at great length. I was saying SHE had not learned compassion. This entire offshoot of the conversation has been from Vs1 quoting me out of context and seemingly not understanding what I wrote.
  5. You aren't kidding. Last time I went there in February my flights were cancelled in both directions...
  6. I do not presume that. I base my assessments only on your statements. All I'll say is that if you have (and you may well have!) it taught you to empathize with the perpetrator rather than the victim, and that is even sadder.
  7. I have no animosity to men (white or otherwise)! That comment was purely a response to kfw's continued disregard for victims, and extreme concern for a celebrated man who has other jobs (who in his view is the only actual victim here) which really could only come from a place of extreme privilege. I apologize if this veers into discussing the discussion but I thought it did deserve a response.
  8. It is hard for white men to lose a bit of the dominance they've always had over other groups.
  9. He is being currently charged with various crimes. https://www.vogue.com/article/harvey-weinstein-criminal-charges-investigations You honestly think all these women made it up...70+ women and you still don't believe any of them?
  10. I'm not sure why you bring up his English ability unless it is to suggest he misunderstood Copley--except no one has denied that this is indeed what Copley said. Are you honestly obliquely suggesting that the alleged victim should be ostracized and blacklisted? Also it is irrelevant if he is a beacon of artistic integrity. That makes his art good, it doesn't mean he is a good person. Weinstein produced a lot of good movies. It doesn't mean he didn't behave despicably (You could insert a lot of other examples here if you wanted--Gauguin, Wagner, Woody Allen, etc.)
  11. Consequences for your actions do not make you a victim. If Copley is a victim it is of his own bad judgment. And your conditional slight attempt at empathy is noted, however the fact you consider the man who said such an inappropriate thing in a work situation the true victim rather negates it. Copley has other jobs. Unlike the chorister, who I would imagine depends on his work at the Met. I'm sure he will be just fine. Someone earlier noted another job he's already been given.
  12. When the organization states that the complaint has merit and fires the director. You really do not understand what constitutes sexual harassment. https://www.dol.gov/oasam/programs/crc/2011-workplace-harassment.htm There are good grounds (under hostile work environment) to call Copley's actions harassment, even if it was a joke.
  13. You expressed sympathy for me. Empathy is the ability to understand and share the feelings of another. You have shown little evidence of that. Relationships between professors and students should be collegial as well. Nevertheless there is still an imbalance of power, as there is between a director and a member of the choir. They aren't pals hanging out.
  14. What? Other people said age played a role in Copley's thinking what he said was appropriate. I was clearly speaking of the man who kissed me on the head at work, who was older and had ideas of workplace appropriateness which dated to the age of Mad Men.
  15. As has been discussed at length, that is not accurate. Words definitely can constitute harassment. I'll note that in my list, the kiss on my head at work, the inappropriate sexual jokes, all the gropings, and the masturbation instances all happened in rooms full of people (or train cars as the case may be). Was I in danger of being raped? No, but they certainly were harassment.
  16. You misunderstand. I didn't list them because they are particularly horrible. And certainly I didn't do it to elicit sympathy for me. I wanted to illustrate, for those who seem to not get it, that these are the kind of sexual harassment incidents people just "put up with" all the time. And by and large are told to put up with ("catcalling? It is a compliment!"). I wanted to suggest some empathy with what people go through all the time and which Copley's comments are of a piece with. And again, having supervisors at school make sexually suggestive jokes is literally no different than what Copley did (I wasn't a minor). Nor would I particularly say the kiss on my head was any worse. And for those of you happy to excuse people because of age and lack of malice. I'm quite sure his age played a role in him thinking that he could get away with that, and also that no malice was intended. That said, it was still not in any way okay.
  17. See the last item on the list. Harmless is your characterization of it. If someone makes such a comment about you at work, you can write it off and laugh. But they would still have opened themselves up to charges of sexual harassment. Perhaps you need to take a course on what constitutes sexual harassment in the workplace. These are required at my place of employment.
  18. Inappropriately treating people as sexual objects in the work place doesn't require "malice." I know plenty of people who I'm sure would say nice things about people I know to have been abusive and inappropriate. That just wasn't their experience with them, lucky for them.
  19. A lot of people are sick of putting up with other people's harmful mistakes. I'm gathering from the way you insist on reading Copley's comments (fairly innocent, clearly joking), that you have never been aggressively cat called on the street (any woman in a major city's frequent experience), been groped on the street and public transportation, masturbated in front of on public transportation (once when I objected, the perp tried to hit me in the face, no one did anything to help me), followed home, had your boss kiss you on the head, had your supervisors in school make lewd "joking" comments, etc. It doesn't feel innocuous. And people are sick of turning the other cheek for men to slap over and over again. If you have and you like all these things, fine, that is your prerogative. But it sounds like you are speaking from a place of lack of understanding. And it is not unreasonable to object to being treated like a sexual object in the workplace, which is precisely what Copley did.
  20. I can guarantee I'd never "screw up" by saying I want to see a subordinate at work naked in my bed. If I did, I'd be fired, full stop. Also I would never imagine thinking this was an appropriate thing to say at work to anyone.
  21. It is one of the options chosen by gender fluid individuals themselves.
  22. This analogy is like people saying gay marriage will lead to people being able to marry their pets. And like that analogy it is deeply offensive and trivializing.
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