aurora

What? Other people said age played a role in Copley's thinking what he said was appropriate. I was clearly speaking of the man who kissed me on the head at work, who was older and had ideas of workplace appropriateness which dated to the age of Mad Men.

As has been discussed at length, that is not accurate. Words definitely can constitute harassment. I'll note that in my list, the kiss on my head at work, the inappropriate sexual jokes, all the gropings, and the masturbation instances all happened in rooms full of people (or train cars as the case may be). Was I in danger of being raped? No, but they certainly were harassment.

You misunderstand. I didn't list them because they are particularly horrible. And certainly I didn't do it to elicit sympathy for me. I wanted to illustrate, for those who seem to not get it, that these are the kind of sexual harassment incidents people just "put up with" all the time. And by and large are told to put up with ("catcalling? It is a compliment!"). I wanted to suggest some empathy with what people go through all the time and which Copley's comments are of a piece with. And again, having supervisors at school make sexually suggestive jokes is literally no different than what Copley did (I wasn't a minor). Nor would I particularly say the kiss on my head was any worse. And for those of you happy to excuse people because of age and lack of malice. I'm quite sure his age played a role in him thinking that he could get away with that, and also that no malice was intended. That said, it was still not in any way okay.

See the last item on the list. Harmless is your characterization of it. If someone makes such a comment about you at work, you can write it off and laugh. But they would still have opened themselves up to charges of sexual harassment. Perhaps you need to take a course on what constitutes sexual harassment in the workplace. These are required at my place of employment.

Inappropriately treating people as sexual objects in the work place doesn't require "malice." I know plenty of people who I'm sure would say nice things about people I know to have been abusive and inappropriate. That just wasn't their experience with them, lucky for them.

A lot of people are sick of putting up with other people's harmful mistakes. I'm gathering from the way you insist on reading Copley's comments (fairly innocent, clearly joking), that you have never been aggressively cat called on the street (any woman in a major city's frequent experience), been groped on the street and public transportation, masturbated in front of on public transportation (once when I objected, the perp tried to hit me in the face, no one did anything to help me), followed home, had your boss kiss you on the head, had your supervisors in school make lewd "joking" comments, etc. It doesn't feel innocuous. And people are sick of turning the other cheek for men to slap over and over again. If you have and you like all these things, fine, that is your prerogative. But it sounds like you are speaking from a place of lack of understanding. And it is not unreasonable to object to being treated like a sexual object in the workplace, which is precisely what Copley did.

I can guarantee I'd never "screw up" by saying I want to see a subordinate at work naked in my bed. If I did, I'd be fired, full stop. Also I would never imagine thinking this was an appropriate thing to say at work to anyone.

It is one of the options chosen by gender fluid individuals themselves.

This analogy is like people saying gay marriage will lead to people being able to marry their pets. And like that analogy it is deeply offensive and trivializing.

Transition could simply mean to living full time as a woman, it could mean hormonal treatment or it could mean surgery. You are simply wrong. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender Transgender people have a gender identity or gender expression that differs from their assigned sex. Transgender people are sometimes called transsexual if they desire medical assistance to transition from one sex to another. Many transgender people experience gender dysphoria, and some seek medical treatments such as hormone replacement therapy, sex reassignment surgery, or psychotherapy.[12] Not all transgender people desire these treatments, and some cannot undergo them for financial or medical reasons.

No. You don't get to decide what to call people according to your own beliefs. If you are a decent human being you call people by the term for the gender THEY identify as. And I really wish you'd stop bringing up pre- or post-op. That has nothing to do with gender orientation.

I'd imagine it is less a height issue (due to the reasons you state) and more about rehearsal time. Some ballets are easier to match up partners last minute if necessary, but due to the nature of the partnering and lifts in R&J I'd imagine that is not an ideal situation.

I'd say closer to 6' He is a lot taller than Bocca:

AGMA is fundamentally a musicians union (opera really) which expanded over the years to handle dancers. That is not an error.

McCallum is a rapist but that is no excuse for mis-gendering her 4x in one short passage. That is a move straight from anti-trans right wing playbooks.

She didn't single anyone out on either side.

You must be speaking of Dana McCallum in 2014. She was no longer employed at Twitter following her case. Dropping in obliquely referenced (and incorrect) evidence of other people's horrible behavior doesn't invalidate the fact that most employers would have acted on the allegations against Martins long ago (if not by firing, then at least in some way). Flack did not say they don't have the same right to speak their truth as the accusers. Robbie Fairchild managed to both speak his and express compassion. Something that is sorely lacking in this thread.

Nope. No backlash. Flack says to support victims of sexual harassment and in this thread she has been called "complaining," to "go back to therapy!" and the fact she was let go has been repeatedly raised in the thread (mostly by you). I'm sure she will learn to keep her mouth shut like a good girl now. Martins-bashing circus is hilarious!

Yes, because he was charged with beating his wife. That is a fact and I didn't think anyone seriously doubted that was true. Op-eds do not have to be devoid of facts. It is hard to have opinions without them (although clearly not impossible!). The letter is clearly indicated as an opinion piece by the publisher.

This is not the point. I was addressing the repeated claims in this thread that what she said is libelous (it isn't) and that she should not have been allowed the platform. But I'm glad you think she is entitled to her opinion.

I'm talking about the shocking use of "good old days." I made no comparison between an op-ed, which she has every right to write, and the rape case. You just gave your opinion, she is free to give hers and dance magazine is free to give her a platform. Opinions are, after all, what one finds in an op-ed.

And if you call a spade a club, is it a club? You don't get to make up you own definition of what sexual harassment is.

The good old days. And people here are objecting to the use of the word backlash? Here is an example of what happened in the "good old days" and slander would be the appropriate term here: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jan/09/new-york-city-police-solve-1994-case-that-newspaper-called-a-hoax?CMP=share_btn_fb

This is a blatantly false statement. https://www.eeoc.gov/eeoc/publications/fs-sex.cfm

On what grounds do you think they could object to it.