abatt Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 Me too. I wish ABT would bring their Nutcracker back to NYC. I would rather see that instead of R&J for the 3rd consecutive season. Link to comment
FireDancer Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 8 minutes ago, abatt said: Me too. I wish ABT would bring their Nutcracker back to NYC. I would rather see that instead of R&J for the 3rd consecutive season. It's very strange they don't at least do a short run... Link to comment
Helene Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 And it’s not like Nutcracker isn’t performed in other seasons in other countries. Link to comment
ABT Fan Posted December 5, 2023 Author Share Posted December 5, 2023 2 hours ago, California said: I just have to share this gorgeous torch lift by Bell and Hurlin in Ratmansky's Nutcracker. Wish I could see it in the theater next week! https://www.instagram.com/p/C0eo_RigmDt/ That was an absolute WOW! Link to comment
California Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 (edited) 8 minutes ago, ABT Fan said: That was an absolute WOW! I love the way Hurlin takes a little jete BEFORE leaping into position for the lift. She just exudes confidence. And the applause and cheers from the other dancers is great, too! That clip makes me remember all the mangled versions of that move we've seen from ABT over the years. Painful! I hope during the performance that somebody is filming from the wings so we can see it in costume. Edited December 5, 2023 by California Link to comment
volcanohunter Posted December 6, 2023 Share Posted December 6, 2023 4 hours ago, Helene said: And it’s not like Nutcracker isn’t performed in other seasons in other countries. Realistically, the last time I saw a Nutcracker "out of season" was in Japan (October 2017). In Hamburg, where John Neumeier reset the ballet as Marie's birthday party in an attempt to make it a year-round ballet, it is now performed only at Christmastime, sharing the period with the more explicitly thematic Christmas Oratorio. Even the Bolshoi does a big block of Nutcrackers in December-January, otherwise performing it rarely. The truly insane queues for tickets there (for the Grigorovich production!) would indicate that the broader public now sees it as a holiday ballet. https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/11/15/why-is-seeing-the-nutcracker-at-the-bolshoi-theatre-so-difficult-a83113 It isn't an annual tradition, but the Australian Ballet has also reached the point of performing it at the end of the calendar year. There the stronger tendency was not to perform the ballet at all. Link to comment
Helene Posted December 6, 2023 Share Posted December 6, 2023 It's not usual for companies to go out of Christmas season, but pre-pandemic at least, and not counting seasons that started around US Thanksgiving and trickled over into New Year's week or galas, Paris Opera Ballet performed the original double-bill -- Nutcracker and Iolanthe -- in late Spring, and, as stand-alones, Northern Ballet started the season early, by 10 November, New Zealand Ballet started their run in October, Zurich Ballet performed it in February and March and at the end of October (different years), Royal Ballet stretched it to mid-January, Australian Ballet performed it in September, ABT brought it to Hollywood in September on tour, and the Mariinsky performed it in April and May as well as mid-late November, just one or two performances amidst their rep. I was always surprised to find these. Link to comment
volcanohunter Posted December 6, 2023 Share Posted December 6, 2023 I was surprised that ABT couldn't make a go of The Nutcracker in Brooklyn. But those NEA surveys do show that proportional rates of audience participation are higher in North Dakota than they are in New York State. There are a ton of shows on offer in New York, but it's entirely possible, that a smaller percentage of the population actually partakes. The cost of living is very high, the commutes can be hellish. So perhaps NYCB's 47 shows × 2,586 seats = 121,542 tickets actually saturate the Nutcracker market. Link to comment
California Posted December 6, 2023 Share Posted December 6, 2023 (edited) 11 hours ago, volcanohunter said: I was surprised that ABT couldn't make a go of The Nutcracker in Brooklyn. But those NEA surveys do show that proportional rates of audience participation are higher in North Dakota than they are in New York State. There are a ton of shows on offer in New York, but it's entirely possible, that a smaller percentage of the population actually partakes. The cost of living is very high, the commutes can be hellish. So perhaps NYCB's 47 shows × 2,586 seats = 121,542 tickets actually saturate the Nutcracker market. ABT performed Baryshnikov's Nutcracker at the Met in May 1977, but that was an extraordinary situation. It had debuted at the Kennedy Center in December 1976 and New Yorkers were anxious to see it. I somehow doubt it would make sense to do Ratmansky's Nutcracker now in June. https://gazette.com/news/nutcracker-baryshnikov-1977/image_443fd955-14e5-5476-9889-9fe72c41576d.html I had forgotten about this, but Gelsey made her debut in this Nutcracker in September 1977, again at the Met. And, again, an extraordinary situation, welcoming Gelsey back after a year away due to illness. https://www.nytimes.com/1977/09/24/archives/gelsey-kirkland-is-a-joy-in-the-nutcracker.html If I had known how few opportunities we'll have to see Bell at the Met next summer, I would have planned to make a trip to Segerstrom to see it this month. I never saw it at BAM, but did go to Segerstrom in 2019 and again in 2021 to see it. It's the only Nutcracker I actually enjoy, mainly because there is so much bravura choreography! And I do love those bees! Edited December 6, 2023 by California Link to comment
matilda Posted December 6, 2023 Share Posted December 6, 2023 (edited) I really don't see Nutcracker ever catching on outside of the holiday season in the US. Personally I would only see it between late November and Christmas eve. Even the week directly after Christmas feels too late, like the moment's over. I remember a few years ago, we had a late Thanksgiving and the NYCB Nutcracker ran into January. Those tickets were on TDF. I echo those who want to see the Ratmansky version though! However, BAM is not a great venue for dance -- the sight lines are more like an old Broadway theater. Plus, no orchestra pit (unless somehow they manipulate the stage for some shows). Edited December 6, 2023 by matilda Link to comment
Barbara Posted December 6, 2023 Share Posted December 6, 2023 I echo California by saying I too really enjoy the Ratmansky Nutcracker! I saw it every year it was at BAM. And every year I prevail upon ABT to bring it back for an East coast run. So far they haven’t listened to me! LOL. What about the Fisher Center at Bard College? Too far out of the metropolitan NY area? Other venue ideas? Link to comment
YouOverThere Posted December 6, 2023 Share Posted December 6, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, matilda said: I really don't see Nutcracker ever catching on outside of the holiday season in the US. Personally I would only see it between late November and Christmas eve. Even the week directly after Christmas feels too late, like the moment's over. [somewhat off-topic] I would think from a marketing standpoint there might be some risk in presenting The Nutcracker outside of the holiday season. If it ceased to be identified as a part of holiday celebrations, would it still be as big a draw? [/somewhat off-topic] Edited December 6, 2023 by YouOverThere Link to comment
lmspear Posted December 6, 2023 Share Posted December 6, 2023 37 minutes ago, YouOverThere said: [somewhat off-topic] I would think from a marketing standpoint there might be some risk in presenting The Nutcracker outside of the holiday season. If it ceased to be identified as a part of holiday celebrations, would it still be as big a draw? [/somewhat off-topic] Right, the public seems to think of the Nutcracker as the dance equivalent of A Christmas Carol or a concert of Christmas music. Link to comment
onxmyxtoes Posted December 7, 2023 Share Posted December 7, 2023 I do think ABT not doing Nutcracker in NY is a huge missed opportunity. The Nutcracker is like the "gateway" ballet for many people. It could be a good vehicle to draw in new audiences. Also with the ridiculous prices and limited availability of NYCB Nut tickets, I really think it would be a great alternative, especially for Downtown Manhattan or Brooklyn based people. They have such limited performances in NYC that they can easily be forgotten. Link to comment
griffie Posted December 7, 2023 Share Posted December 7, 2023 I loved the Ratmansky version of Nutcracker when I saw it at BAM, especially the first act reimagining and the blizzard of snowflakes with bad intentions. (Though I did miss SPF and didn't care for the bee costumes in Flowers.) I felt the BAM stage was just a little too small to do the production justice; I felt some the dancing looked cramped. I wish they'd come back to NYC. I think there's no doubt the city can support two world-class Nutcrackers. I recently saw Brooklyn Ballet's Nut at Kings Theater. Kings Theater is a recently restored (2015) movie palace in the heart of Brooklyn which is stunning venue with a good-sized stage and seats over 3,000. ABT could sell really well there for many young families since, as onxmyxtoes and others have pointed out, NYCB's ticket prices are stratospheric. Link to comment
Helene Posted December 7, 2023 Share Posted December 7, 2023 If they played it during the summer, they could market "Christmas in July*" to tourists who weren't in NYC in December, and to *crafters, because July 1 (Canada) and July 4 (US) starts the deluge of "If you don't start knitting/crocheting/crafting your holiday gifts now, you are going to be one stressed out puddle with aching hands by the beginning of December." They could get snow cone vendors for the lobby, summer program kids if there are roles for them in Ratmansky's version, and they could sell any leftover ornaments and other Nutcracker souvenirs from the year before. It could become a new tradition. Link to comment
lmspear Posted December 7, 2023 Share Posted December 7, 2023 And it would save some of brain power needed to program the Met season.🤓 Link to comment
volcanohunter Posted December 7, 2023 Share Posted December 7, 2023 1 hour ago, griffie said: Kings Theater is a recently restored (2015) movie palace in the heart of Brooklyn which is stunning venue with a good-sized stage and seats over 3,000. ABT could sell really well there for many young families since, as onxmyxtoes and others have pointed out, NYCB's ticket prices are stratospheric. I have a feeling ABT would be scared away from that many seats. How are the sightlines? Old movie houses were built on the assumption that people would be looking up at a screen, not at stage level. On the other hand, the proscenium may be quite low, if it was built to frame a film screen. Not that old cinemas have four or five rings of seats, but the key elements of the sets have to be visible. Link to comment
griffie Posted December 7, 2023 Share Posted December 7, 2023 57 minutes ago, volcanohunter said: I have a feeling ABT would be scared away from that many seats. How are the sightlines? Old movie houses were built on the assumption that people would be looking up at a screen, not at stage level. On the other hand, the proscenium may be quite low, if it was built to frame a film screen. Not that old cinemas have four or five rings of seats, but the key elements of the sets have to be visible. Excellent points, and when googling how many seats it has I came across an interesting article on those issues. Kings Theatre was one of the five Loew's Wonder Theaters, and as you say, the original cinema had poor sightlines to the stage from some of the seats. The original capacity of the theater was 3600 and in modernizing the theater nearly 600 seats were lost. The orchestra seating area is vast and the balcony comparatively small, so not ideal, but a seat towards the rear for me worked well enough for the Nutcracker I saw. Here's a link to an article on the renovation if anyone's interested. http://www.lightingandsoundamerica.com/reprint/KingsTheatre_original.pdf Link to comment
FPF Posted December 7, 2023 Share Posted December 7, 2023 12 hours ago, Barbara said: What about the Fisher Center at Bard College? Too far out of the metropolitan NY area? Other venue ideas? I would love it if ABT came back to the Fisher Center-. A while back, they would have a weekend of performances there every few years and they seemed to sell very well. But nothing since 2015, I think. The programs (I saw them there 3 different years) were all mixed bills though, with no elaborate scenery. Link to comment
volcanohunter Posted December 7, 2023 Share Posted December 7, 2023 3 hours ago, griffie said: Here's a link to an article on the renovation if anyone's interested. http://www.lightingandsoundamerica.com/reprint/KingsTheatre_original.pdf Regardless of whether ABT ever dances there, it's marvelous that the theater has been rescued and restored. Link to comment
matilda Posted December 7, 2023 Share Posted December 7, 2023 (edited) I agree the restoration of the Kings is pretty cool. I don't see that being a good venue for ABT though. It feels much more appropriate for rock/pop concerts and that kind of thing. It's also the kind of place where they let you bring concession items into the theater, and it's in a pretty sketchy neighborhood to be honest. I feel like a short run (like 5 days) at City Center before or after the Segerstrom would be an OK option if logistics and ROI made sense. It would serve both the tourist crowd and the locals who are used to going into Midtown or the UWS for performing arts. Then again, Alvin Ailey does a month-long run every year at City Center over the holiday season so probably not an option. Also worth noting that their Nutcracker doesn't sell as well in Orange County as some might assume. Looking at the upcoming performances, there a lot of unsold seats (at least by Nutcracker standards), with some shows not having the balcony section open, whereas the NYCB Nutcracker is practically sold out through the 31st. Edited December 7, 2023 by matilda Link to comment
AB'sMom Posted December 7, 2023 Share Posted December 7, 2023 How much longer is the commitment at Segerstrom? I can’t imagine bringing the sets back and forth between New York and California. It used to be a full house every year in California but I confess I’ve skipped it the last couple of years. Link to comment
California Posted December 7, 2023 Share Posted December 7, 2023 29 minutes ago, AB'sMom said: How much longer is the commitment at Segerstrom? I can’t imagine bringing the sets back and forth between New York and California. It used to be a full house every year in California but I confess I’ve skipped it the last couple of years. Looks like they have a three-year commitment, starting in December 2021. There is some serious money in southern California, and I wouldn't be surprised if it's extended. https://www.ladancechronicle.com/american-ballet-theatre-named-the-official-company-of-the-segerstrom-center/ Link to comment
Rosa Posted December 8, 2023 Share Posted December 8, 2023 On 12/6/2023 at 9:12 AM, California said: ABT performed Baryshnikov's Nutcracker at the Met in May 1977, but that was an extraordinary situation. It had debuted at the Kennedy Center in December 1976 and New Yorkers were anxious to see it. I somehow doubt it would make sense to do Ratmansky's Nutcracker now in June. https://gazette.com/news/nutcracker-baryshnikov-1977/image_443fd955-14e5-5476-9889-9fe72c41576d.html I had forgotten about this, but Gelsey made her debut in this Nutcracker in September 1977, again at the Met. And, again, an extraordinary situation, welcoming Gelsey back after a year away due to illness. https://www.nytimes.com/1977/09/24/archives/gelsey-kirkland-is-a-joy-in-the-nutcracker.html Thank you, California! I did not know that. Makes me more grateful for Gelsey's Clara being recorded. Link to comment
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