vrsfanatic

H. Koegler states ...

Italy does have two State funded ballet schools, L'Academia di Rome and L'Academia di la Scala, in Milan, similar to those in Russia, that provide academic and ballet training for the students. There are many private schools of varying quality that also train dancers. The Academia in Rome even has a degree granting program for teachers in the Vaganova schooling.There are numerous ballet companies throughout Italy, all which basically suppliment the Opera houses. As a matter of fact, almost every Opera house has a ballet company. The major ones are found in Milan, Rome, Naples, Florence, Verona and Messina. The region of Reggio-Emiglia has a well-funded company, Aterballetto, that is quite contemporary, and interesting. In Florence, Balletto di Toscana that has a few performances a year, also more contemporary work. I am not sure if it is fully functioning as a separate company that employs the dancers full-time as of yet, as Aterballetto does. Many of the dancers from Teatro Comunale di Firenze (aka as Maggio Musicale) had been supplementing the ranks. Teatro Comunale also does have a separate seasons from the opera where various more contemporary ballets are staged. I believe the director of the ballet is still Poliokov (sp) but I am not sure. He had been director of the ballet before going to Paris Opera to work with Nureyev, but I believe he is back. Italy places much value on the opera and very little emphasis on the ballet. There are Italian trained dancers working in the Royal, Dutch National, Kirov Ballet, English National, Munich, and Berlin to name a few. Italians had felt they needed to leave Italy in order to have a career in ballet. I believe it was only a few years ago that the ballet company of La Scala toured to NYC.

Yes, the school Baryshnikov funded during his tenure as AD was The School of Classical Ballet. It closed six months after he resigned as Artistic Director. See the above post.

If I may add, Gomes and Herrera both received a major part of their training in the US. Although they may be from other countries other than the US, they both did a major portion of their training in established American schools: Harid Conservatory, for Gomes and SAB for Herrera. ABT does have some sort of school now. I am not sure of it's actual status though. It also had a school that was functioning for the last three years of the Baryshnikov artistic directorship. I believe there were only about 25 students total. Out of that school, dancers such as Radetsky and Stiefel received their early to intermediate training. There also was a young dancer Stephanie Wolfe who eventually was given a corps contract. I do not know what happened to her. :shrug: I could probably be the first to jump on the wagon to discuss the lack of adequate schooling in the US. However, many of the challenges confronting the dedicated, highly skilled and hardworking teachers in this country have to do very much with lack of finances, lack of time to train the students, and poorly educated populus in respect to ballet education. The European system of schooling generally allows for more time to train ballet students seriously. This is not the case in the US. It is indeed very interesting to look at the roster of dancers and see that the majority of principles and soloists of ABT are not American trained, rather from the European system of schooling.

Old Fashioned, thank you for the Zehr update! I hope she is seen on stage too. She is a new, young, up and coming...I hope to hear more!

I worked for an assoluta in Italy! It is part of their language. There are quite a few in Italy!

Perhaps you could make a CD of the music on a DVD. I am not sure if the Kirov is on DVD yet, but if so and there is no applause it should work, however if you do not pay ASCAP or BMI, I am afraid it may not be legal to use in performance. I could be wrong though.

silvy this is right out of Koegler..."...set in a small village in Hungary: Kathi, the camp-follower, loves Hans, the son of a tavern-keeper, but they have to overcome the jealousy of the Burgomaster and the Baron, who are both pursuing Kathi, before they can get married...." It was originally a 1 Act ballet but what the Kirov performs today is an excerpt of the original. I hope this helps.

Yes, there is a wonderful film of Leonid Lavrovsky's Bolshoi version of R& J with Galina Ulanova as Juliet that is totally enchanting. Even by today's standards technically, she is lovely. Artistically she is a must see!.

In our area they toured as the Moscow Festival Ballet. They seem to change their name around quite a bit! Unfortunately I found the 1st and 2nd Acts to be the worst of a professional company I have ever seen. With my Russian background, it was an embarassment for me with my students sitting there, some seeing their very first Swan Lake. I walked out. Cannot tell you about the rest. When I lived in St. Petersburg, I did have the opportunity to see the various companies (again always changing names) directed by Radchenko. Although the productions where not of the quality of Mariinski or Bolshoi, I never walked out. The dancers were decent, the production qualities were also very nice and of course beautiful theatres always do help. In the Swan Lake I so last week, I could not say any of this! Sorry for the opposing view, but I just thought perhaps others might like to hear there are some of us who will never go to another Radchenko production! :angry:

In the past thirty or more years in St. Petersburg, Russia it is highly unusual for a teacher to stay with a class for all 8-10 years of study. The teachers who are well known in the West are the teachers who may have worked with the students their last 3-5 years of study. (Generally 3 years, but there are cases such as L. Kovalova with her daughter's and Vishneva class of 2000, who worked for 5 years.) Many students in Russia are even fortunate enough to work with the same teachers and coaches in the companies as they had in school. The mentoring system in teaching is not encouraged in the US unfortunately. It is rarely that students are able to develop that relationship with a teacher. Sarah Lamb was indeed lucky to have had this experience.

Your memory serves you very well BW! It was a very light segment, no meat and potatoes, but pleasant enough. Yes, no mention of Pendleton. They showed small pieces with very few dancers. Mostly pas de deuxs.

I am sorry The Uncrossed Fifth, but I am not as educated on ballet videos as well as others. Hopefully someone else can answer your question about the Great Pas de Deux video and Black Swan. :shrug:

silvy, it has been years since I read this book! I remember loving it though. I will have to get it out again before I can give you a thorough, adult opinion. For now it could only be the impressions of a young girl filled with dreams of the dance in her future. I did not know even who Agnes De Mille was when I read the book much less any of the others you have mentioned. All I knew was that it was about the ballet. Up until that point the theatre to me was going to be like a Fred and Ginger movie! Actually I cannot really say when it was that I stopped looking for that in life! I will get back to you!

liljules5, check out the Kirov, Gusev/Vinogradov version for the Greek Dance! Act 1, Scene 1.

Maybe Uncrossedfifth is confusing Zelensky, 33 1/2 with Zaklinsky, 48? They are confused often since both are Vaganova Academy/Kirov Ballet, blonde and tall. Igor Zelensky danced with NYCB however to my knowledge Konstantin Zaklinsky never has. Perhaps this is your confusion?

Thank you, I was afraid that is what the response would be!

Saw the show Hans and enjoyed it. I found a lot of the history connected to the paintings very enlightening. I always imagined the men lurking or watching in the background to be ballet masters or choreographers or directors, never patrons. There was much to be learned about his paintings and the effects upon the art world. Also I was a little shocked at the step being performed in Bayadere by I am assuming Platel, in the center of what I will call the coda. Some form of fouette I assume. Does anyone know what that was (or was supposed to be)?

Glebb, I am familar with many ballets performed by L. Rhodes and A. Calzada together, while they were at PBC, but this one I unfortunately missed. Was this performance in the PBC Rep?They were indeed beautiful together. You were quite fortunate to have seen them. Part of the beauty of their performance was always their energy together.

I do agree with Major Johnson on his summation that this step is not considered the same as the Italian version of a similar but different step. In the Vaganova syllabus, fouette does not include any sort of rond de jambe. Instead the working leg having opened side (supporting leg in demi-plie) at 45 degrees from one tour en dehors, arcs back (this is not an arc as in rond de jambe) behind the height of mid calf with the rise to demi-pointe, passes to the front with the rotation of the tour and arcs outward (not as in rond de jambe) to demi-plie on the supporting leg and the working leg opens direction side. It must include the characteristic slice or whip of the working leg back/front or front/back. The arms open directly sideways to second position, with the opening of the working leg and close, downward toward 1st, with the rise to demi-pointe for the actual tour. The body aids in the turn by rising strongly upward with the rise to demi-pointe. The toes must pointe strongly outward like an arrow as it opens to 45 degrees sideways so as to aid in the strength of the working thigh. This will help the working leg not to drop in the demi-plie. The force of the turn is taken from the the working side of the body. Then it must be studied en dedans where in this case the working leg closes front /back and the turn is in the direction into the supporting leg. Fouette, like most turning movements, is at first studied in the centre of the room without turns, then with turns. Once it is understood in the centre en dehors and en dedans, it is then studied at the barre. In the centre in 5th year, the goal is 8 individual turns done consecutively while at the barre no more than two individual turns. At the barre the movement may be combined in exercises for fondu and rond de jambe en l'air. In more advanced levels, the number of tours done in sequence will increase by approximately 8 per year. Of course those who can do more are never stopped in their endevour but they must be well executed. BTW, we teachers know the students will practice this movement continuously without us around. It is considered one of those things you just close your eyes to. Me personally...I thought at age 10-12 I already had my perfect 32, well at least in my living room (coffee table helped to keep me in one place)! :grinning: Also the height of the working leg in fouette will raise to 90 degrees, knee height, in the more advanced levels. Hans, I believe you are confusing the movement temps releve at 45 and 90 degrees entournant with fouette. They are two very different steps. Temps releve does indeed include an arcing movement from a place inbetween front and side or back and side to the working leg whipping side beginning from the knee down. I am not sure of the history but I do believe that this movement it related to the Italian fouette that Major Johnson is discussing. Then again in Vaganova program there is another step actually called Italian fouette, but let's not confuse the issue any further. For now I think it best not to include the Vaganova movement tour fouette at 45 degrees and 90, with what Major Johnson is discussing. Maybe at another time the step of the week will be the Vaganova tour fouette or temp releve entourant. Italian fouette, ala Vaganova, is so different there generally is no confusion. BTW the fouette Major Johnson is discussing, at least by my teacher in St. Petersburg, was called "oh you mean Maestro Cecchetti's fouette!" and when one says Maestro Cecchetti in Russia with a certain age group there is always a respectful bow with wistful eyes included in the expression! It is very charming to see indeed.

Silvy, this book is a very good and interesting read.

I do not agree with kirovboy's assessment of the Vaganova trained dancer's body. There is a lot more to it then what he has stated. They are not trained to dance with their weight further back than in other methods because of the raked stage. If this were the case dancers such as Baryshnikov, Makarova and others would have trained differently once they left Russia in order to stand up on stage. I assure you they did not. As for the ribcage protruding I would have to say that to someone trained in the Vaganova method as a teacher, dancers not trained in this way look as if their chests are sucken and they are falling forward all the time. It is all a matter of what one is accustomed to seeing! The training does not ask the dancers to this I also assure you. The ribs are to be closed with the ribcage lifted and the chest opened, shoulders lowering into the middle back as the hips lift upward into the waistline.The legs, yes, selection is part of the reason, but it is also the very slow training that helps to create this IMO, beautiful line of curves! Again, I do not agree with kirovboy on the size of the thighs being larger due to the training. I would have to say, please see Vaganova trained dancers in Russia prior to making such rash decisions. The female dancers there are quite petit in frame and muscular structure. The size of a muscle in directly related to genetics. If it is in the genetics to have big thighs...well then you will! yes, some of the men do have larger thighs but then again there are those who do not. It is all a matter of perspective I suppose because to me many dancers in the West look to have no muscles at all!

Not to lead you astray but, yes, a saute is a sissonne stage form, to a Russian, taught in the 2nd year of study. It is only done in 1st arabesque at 90 degrees with supporting arm in 3rd allonge and the working arm in 2nd allonge. As for tir bouchon, a character dancer/teacher may not not know this academic term for this movement. The usage I have described is one taught at first in the 4th year of study but as the students progress (on to other teachers, remember the upper level teachers tend to be the more celebrated teachers who have not studied methodology, therefore the term could possibly retain its usage from generations ago) the term is used interchangably with the other described movements. The placement of the toes at the side of the knee while turning is of great importance. It is used when turning from pose to pose, it is also referred to many times in various other movements which seem to be more of the attitude front at 45 and 90 degrees in the upper classes. Remember there is no such thing as attitude front in the Vaganova school. I do not want to start a debate, just to remind those who have interest. Tir bouchon is also used(this I learned in the US from a non-Russian) standing enface, developpe right leg side onto demi-pointe (or not), turning en dehors or endans, overcross the working leg front /back at the height of the knee while swiveling around in a deep demi-plie with the body inclined at first toward the knee side ways, 1/2 turn and then away from the knee sideways 1/2 turn. The turn finishes on demi pointe in a big pose. It also can be done from any pose to any pose (this I learned in Russia). Maybe what is most important is that we all learn and accept the different terms and their usages. Students need to know them all and remain open minded to whatever changes they must make. Actually I should add that to the list of reasons why I enjoy Ballet Talk so much!

The term tir bouchon, when used according to the Vaganova program as it is taught today in methodology, is different from other Russian schools and perhaps even from the early years of Vaganova training. It actually is a higher retire than front or back, but the toes are pointed to the side of the knee, on the knob! It is taught in the fourth year of study. In this year it is studied only with the toes to the side of the knee but when done in later years as a turn from a big pose to another big pose it overcrosses the knee front and back. In the pre-Vaganova years I believe that this movement was something similar to an attitude front but I am not really clear on it. I just know that when I speak with a generation of teacher...generally those in their 60s and up, the movement is one thing and when I speak with those of my age group the movement is another. I cannot find it in any written material as I was taught the movement in methodology but I know this is what I was taught.