ABT Fall 2023

[volcanohunter]

China Airlines is a Taiwanese company. SkyTeam also includes China Eastern and XiamenAir. The European front includes Virgin Atlantic, Air France, KLM and ITA Airways, which emerged from the wreckage of Alitalia. Aeroflot was kicked off SkyTeam.

Added: American Airlines is part of OneWorld, whose Chinese member is Cathay Pacific from Hong Kong. Presumably Japan Airlines also flies to China.

Edited October 31, 2023 by volcanohunter

[California]

According to Instagram Stories this morning (Boylston, Brandt, Whiteside), ABT dancers have landed in Dubai. It will be fun, thanks to social media, to follow them on this trip. 

[volcanohunter]

So they've been flying eastward on Korean Airlines rather than across the Pacific to Incheon International?  

I once flew to Japan via Dubai, but I began the journey in Europe.

[abatt]

12 hours ago, California said:

We have no way of knowing, of course. I've actually wondered how ABT could afford China at all! A subsidy from the US state department? China? Some national airlines seem to provide air travel for visitors like this, although (again) we have no way of knowing and I haven't seen anything about this kind of support. Just think of the cost of shipping costumes and sets, never mind the dancers!

Tours always have sponsors.  ABT doesn't pay from its own funds to go on tour.

[stuben]

Seems the company didn’t give much time for the dancers to get ready for this tour!? So last show was Sunday and they’re already onto China? And from social media posts it looks like their contract situation hasn’t been resolved! That’s just seems ridiculous and much like what the writers and actors were and still are dealing with. We, the audience can compliment or criticize but in the end we have to realize these artists are all working for less than living wage just to entertain us, I wish the powers that be do the right thing and take care of their dancers!

[nanushka]

5 minutes ago, stuben said:

Seems the company didn’t give much time for the dancers to get ready for this tour!?

They performed for under 2 weeks at the Koch, and they're doing much of the same rep in China (plus Giselle, which they've performed a lot in the last few years). I think they're probably ready.

[abatt]

Given that they only work for a fraction of the year, is it really fair to say that they are working for less than a living wage?  

[stuben]

27 minutes ago, nanushka said:

They performed for under 2 weeks at the Koch, and they're doing much of the same rep in China (plus Giselle, which they've performed a lot in the last few years). I think they're probably ready.

Sorry I meant ready in terms of getting their own traveling things. I know I’d have to pack and knowing how China might be these days, there must be regulations etc to be ready?

[stuben]

30 minutes ago, abatt said:

Given that they only work for a fraction of the year, is it really fair to say that they are working for less than a living wage?  

And is that their fault when many companies work more days? Someone up thread mentioned many have to do gigs etc to make ends meet.

[abatt]

It is their choice to work for ABT.  NYCB works many more weeks per year, which is part of the reason their compensation is higher than what the ABT union could negotiate for ABT's dancers.  Paul Taylor dance company, when it didn't have enough work, would intentionally lay off their workers so that they could collect unemployment during the off season.   Unfortunately, if the dancer chooses to perform with a company that has far less than 52 weeks of employment, they may need to find supplementary income from gigs, teaching (a la Bouder at Steps) or other means. To say that they don't earn a living wage is an insult to all of those workers who are killing themselves in multiple minimum wage jobs to earn a living. 

[stuben]

12 minutes ago, abatt said:

It is their choice to work for ABT.  NYCB works many more weeks per year, which is part of the reason their compensation is higher than what the ABT union could negotiate for ABT's dancers.  Paul Taylor dance company, when it didn't have enough work, would intentionally lay off their workers so that they could collect unemployment during the off season.   Unfortunately, if the dancer chooses to perform with a company that has far less than 52 weeks of employment, they may need to find supplementary income from gigs, teaching (a la Bouder at Steps) or other means. To say that they don't earn a living wage is an insult to all of those workers who are killing themselves in multiple minimum wage jobs to earn a living. 

By no means I was trying to insult anyone. That’s putting words in my mouth and I’m sorry you’re misunderstanding my thoughts. It would be nice that these dancers would get enough weeks so they don’t need to go and find other means to live on and that’s all. I’m a supporter of these dancers and that’s all.

[aurora]

5 minutes ago, stuben said:

By no means I was trying to insult anyone. That’s putting words in my mouth and I’m sorry you’re misunderstanding my thoughts. It would be nice that these dancers would get enough weeks so they don’t need to go and find other means to live on and that’s all. I’m a supporter of these dancers and that’s all.

As someone who works at a very challenging and incredibly poorly paid job, I wasn't at all insulted by what you said.

Moreover their responsibilities last much longer than their "performance" weeks and I think that should be reflected in their pay. They still need to train almost constantly to stay at the required fitness levels--that's literally part of the job.

I've never heard that professional athletes should be paid much less than they are because they only work for a small portion of the year. And they generally make so much more than even the highest paid dancers.

 

[California]

4 hours ago, California said:

According to Instagram Stories this morning (Boylston, Brandt, Whiteside), ABT dancers have landed in Dubai. It will be fun, thanks to social media, to follow them on this trip. 

According to ABTOfficial Stories on Instagram, they made it to Shanghai.  I'll be interested in seeing how much sightseeing, etc. they are able to do. 

[tutu]

21 hours ago, abatt said:

Someone above suggested that it would be exciting to see him again as Mercutio.  While that is true, I would much rather see him debut in a lead role.  If you have someone with tremendous talent, use him.  Don't stick him into a minor role.

Couldn’t agree more.  Dancers’ careers are so short…

[tutu]

15 hours ago, ABT Fan said:

And, not to open a Pandora’s box, but since you mentioned sets and costumes, oh my that cost alone, but they’d also have to be insured, and shipped in such a way that they are guaranteed to arrive. The cost and that coordination….yikes.

Is it the company manager who handles all of this?  The project management required here is mind-boggling.

[uptowner]

Yes, when a large arts organization travels there are significant logistics around transportation, like shipping & insurance. This is true for domestic travel as well (though it is less expensive and they aren't dealing with customs and border control). ABT travels regularly, I am sure they have staff who handle this and know what needs to be done. Tour dates are set well in advance and the logistics are planned out months ahead of time. As for the visas for the dancers (and other staff): surely the company is also helping with that (for example, my spouse recently traveled to Shanghai for work, as an employee of an arts organization, and the visa process was involved but was completed before travel). 

Edited October 31, 2023 by uptowner
typo

[abatt]

1 hour ago, aurora said:

 

I've never heard that professional athletes should be paid much less than they are because they only work for a small portion of the year. And they generally make so much more than even the highest paid dancers.

 

Professional athletes get paid huge amounts in sports in which the teams have contracts to televise the games.  Ballet is a niche art, so the salaries of ballet dancers will never be competitive with those of athletes in sports like football, hockey, basketball and so on. 

Edited October 31, 2023 by abatt

[abatt]

1 hour ago, stuben said:

By no means I was trying to insult anyone. That’s putting words in my mouth and I’m sorry you’re misunderstanding my thoughts. It would be nice that these dancers would get enough weeks so they don’t need to go and find other means to live on and that’s all. I’m a supporter of these dancers and that’s all.

Sorry.  Just wanted to highlight that there are many people who are working  multiple minimum wage jobs and not offered health insurance or any benefits.  Did not intend an offense to you.  

Edited October 31, 2023 by abatt

[MarzipanShepherdess]

1 hour ago, aurora said:

Moreover their responsibilities last much longer than their "performance" weeks and I think that should be reflected in their pay. They still need to train almost constantly to stay at the required fitness levels--that's literally part of the job.

 

Exactly. If the dancers weren’t training and honing their art basically daily, they would not be able to perform to ABT standards. And while they can seek other work in the off season, their options to do so are limited by their commitment to working for ABT whenever it wants them to perform, as well as all the training they have to do on an ongoing basis. Yes some can teach and coach, but there are far more dancers ready to teach than open teaching positions or coaching gigs. Not everyone in the company can model. And guesting gigs tend to be most available to the higher-ranked dancers, who are less likely than the apprentices and corps to need that money to get by. 

All workers deserve fair, livable wages. The prestige and artistic fulfillment associated with being a professional dancer shouldn’t be considered as a partial form of payment in its own right. 

[volcanohunter]

4 hours ago, stuben said:

Seems the company didn’t give much time for the dancers to get ready for this tour!? So last show was Sunday and they’re already onto China?

I'm sure they didn't wait until Sunday night to pack their bags.  They're pros, and while tours can be exhausting, ten shows over eleven days is not backbreaking. Foreign tours are generally considered a perk of the job: you get to see the world, and someone else pays for it.

[Helene]

1 hour ago, MarzipanShepherdess said:

And while they can seek other work in the off season, their options to do so are limited by their commitment to working for ABT whenever it wants them to perform, as well as all the training they have to do on an ongoing basis

Anything dancers do to earn money or to keep in shape when off contract comes with a risk of injury, including career-ending injury.  As public figures, some jobs are off-limits from a company perspective: I could work at Gray's Papaya or Target or some restaurant in the Lincoln Center without anyone noticing (except for my incompetence as a wait-person), but an member of a classical ballet company would be recognized immediately, and it wouldn't reflect well on a glamor-based profession.   Because of the hours they have to keep, they don't have unlimited options of where to live to be able to have not only a reasonable commute on a daily basis, but to be able to get to the theater as a last-minute substitute.  And not all of them have the option of subletting where they live and decamping to someone's guest bedroom or couch to avoid paying that rent when they're off contract.

I'm not dismissing the experience of people who work multiple jobs and are without health insurance with horrible commutes and are still under the poverty line.  I just don't think that should be the bar for dancers, and that it's preferable if everyone was lifted.

[abatt]

I guess I'm skeptical of claims that  dancers employed at ABT are living hand to mouth and earning poverty level wages.  I'm similarly skeptical of such claims by other groups, such as the musicians at City Ballet. 

[onxmyxtoes]

22 hours ago, California said:

Trivia of the day: Judging from several Instagram Stories, ABT dancers are now on an 18-hour flight to China. From their postings: corps members fly economy (Roxander) and principals business/first (Cornejo)

But a photo of Trenary in an instagram story show her with the masses

[AB'sMom]

Minimum wage jobs tend not to require extensive experience. Professional ballet requires nearly a lifetime of training.

[TheAccidentalBalletomane]

I think it is wonderful that ABT is in China.  I hope they have a safe and fun journey!   It saddens me that these wonderful dancers do not make more money.  Personally, I believe that for wages to increase, you need to have more exposure of ballet to the public, not just ticket sales and wealthy benefactors. There is no reason why ballet, not merely classical, but contemporary as well, cannot be mainstreamed more.  There is or at least was this major TV show in Russia called Big Ballet that was like American Idol but much bigger.  100s of millions watched this show.  That's a staggering number.  Why cannot there be more recording or simulcast of live ballet for those that can't attend live performances?   You can post advertisements during intermission and generate money all sorts of ways. Perhaps the government could or should sponsor the arts more? (Not necessarily a popular view).  NYCB has their own dedicated theatre while ABT does not, making it much more difficult for them financially, if I am not mistaken. Many people will never enjoy ballet simply because they are not exposed to it. I only gained a love of classical music after having to listen to it as part of a college course and I was smitten. I was at an ABT performance at the Met recently, and ran into a young man in his early 20s, a friend of a child.  He told me his family was from Russia so that he grew up going to the ballet and learned to love it.  It's about exposure.  I wold like to think that one would  appreciate dance through a story ballet that say Dancing with the Stars. I think the solution is exposure to our youth and expanding ballet to other media so more people can enjoy and participate in ballet.