2023-2024 Season

[Helene]

Bouder’s meet-up/discussion with the author was from last Fall.  The follow-up was in January: the author describes the phone call as “awkward and stilted” and the quotes are terse.  The piece was published today, months later.

The subject wasn’t simply all the wrongs inflicted on Bouder, but a question that many dancers and figure skaters, as well as the occasional actor, have been asked and answered publicly: given all you know about the pain and power differential in your profession, should you encourage or allow your child, especially your female chid, to follow in your footsteps, and, if yes, how do you navigate the training process.  And I write “allow” because, especially for girls, training has to start very young for the large majority, and it takes, at minimum, parents giving permission for their minor children to participate, but, almost always, cash.  Dance is not your usual summer parks & recreation playground offering.

[abatt]

1 hour ago, matilda said:

Agree with the comment above. This isn't merely a "body shaming" situation or a matter of just a few extra pounds. Ashley gives the impression of being very much in denial. It's very sad to see such a once glorious dancer engage in public self-sabotage. 

She doesn't think she has a problem, and blames her lack of casting on the "isms".   She has never been able to accept criticism or disappointment like an adult in a competitive profession.  When Martins gave Hyltin first cast in SB, and Bouder got third cast, she ran to the NY Times to whine about it.   Her reaction to disappointment is never one of self-reflection.  Rather, her reaction has always been petty and lacking in self awareness.  Nothing has changed.    Feminists don't throw their female colleagues under the bus.  Her portrayal of herself as a martyred victim is outrageous.  

Edited May 13 by abatt

[SaraBW]

I believe Ashley performed yesterday - did anyone see it? I'm curious if her technique, etc. continues to improve/rebound?

[abatt]

I was there.  Green in DAAG requires very little technical finesse, so I can't really make a judgment about her technique based on that role.  Green is one of the easier roles int he rep, so it is not a test of technique or stamina.  She was fine in the role,.

 

She has not lost any weight over the past two years.  I thought she looked heavy, particularly in comparison to every other performer on stage.  

[vipa]

1 hour ago, Helene said:

Bouder’s meet-up/discussion with the author was from last Fall.  The follow-up was in January: the author describes the phone call as “awkward and stilted” and the quotes are terse.  The piece was published today, months later.

The subject wasn’t simply all the wrongs inflicted on Bouder, but a question that many dancers and figure skaters, as well as the occasional actor, have been asked and answered publicly: given all you know about the pain and power differential in your profession, should you encourage or allow your child, especially your female chid, to follow in your footsteps, and, if yes, how do you navigate the training process.  And I write “allow” because, especially for girls, training has to start very young for the large majority, and it takes, at minimum, parents giving permission for their minor children to participate, but, almost always, cash.  Dance is not your usual summer parks & recreation playground offering.

In this respect, it's unfortunate that Bouder was the only dancer/mother interviewed. She seems to be at a difficult point in her career with a mix of issues and grievances. A number of dancers have young daughters, and there are many professional dancers whose mothers were dancers. It would have been nice to hear from some of them to get a fuller perspective. Of course I don't know the author's intent or how the piece came to be written, but a  variety of voices would have made a better piece IMO.

Edited May 13 by vipa

[MarzipanShepherdess]

11 minutes ago, SaraBW said:

I believe Ashley performed yesterday - did anyone see it? I'm curious if her technique, etc. continues to improve/rebound?

I saw Ashley dance yesterday. I thought she looked much more charismatic and engaging on stage than she did when I last saw her post-pandemic in Scotch Symphony (in which she looked quite tentative and flat). Indeed my mother, who is not a regular dance-goer and is totally unaware of Ashley's recent struggles, commented at the intermission that she had enjoyed the ballerina in green who was "very confident". 

It is evident Ashley is not back to where she was technically pre-pandemic/injuries: at the end of the section where the green girl is trying to find a partner there's a little balance as the green girl exits the stage and she didn't seem to really be able to hold it. That being said, I enjoyed seeing her on stage and felt like she acquitted herself well in DAAG.  It left me with optimism that she can find pieces in the rep to which she can bring something in this new phase of her career.

[MarzipanShepherdess]

Went to DAAG/Brahms-Schoenberg for the Sunday matinee.

DAAG: I just love this ballet so much. Very well-danced yesterday, particularly by the men. Aaron Sanz's port de bras kept catching my eye: so elegant, expressive, and lush (not usually a word I use for male dancers!) Huxley and Chan brought tons of élan and finesse, their "face off" section was a joy to watch. Their double tours were astonishing. I thought Dominika really held her own amongst the other ladies, all principals and soloists. She already brings a real sense of depth and interiority in addition to her beautiful lines and polish. 

Brahms-Schoenberg: Why don't they do this one more often? Such a crowd-pleaser, so many great roles.  Miriam Miller looked fantastic in the opening section, and I loved seeing Alexa cast in something more classic and adagio. It was a pleasure to see her exploring softness and expansiveness when what I usually love about her dancing is her speed and attack. She was lovely.  Unity really surprised me in Rondo alla Zingarese; she absolutely knocked it out of the park. This is the Unity I want to see more of: charismatic and hyper-present, deploying her formidable technique with flair and not just polish. Andy Veyette subbed in for Tyler Angle and acquitted himself admirably. The highlight for me, though, was Mira and Gilbert in the second movement. Just glorious. That section has a lot of backbends and Mira's were SO fluid and her arms were so lush and expressive, I was hanging on every moment. I love the rapport she and Gilbert have, too.  Let's have this one again soon, please!

[abatt]

Weight is very relevant to being a ballet dancer.  It impacts line.  It impacts partnering.  It impacts technique.  It's disingenuous  in my opinion to pretend that weight is not relevant.  Maintaining an acceptable weight has always been a part of that occupation.  Dancers at NYCB have traditionally been given weight warnings when they were becoming too heavy.  Not sure if they still do that.  We can't pretend that ballet dancers are like office workers, so weight doesn't matter. 

 

Body type is something entirely different.  For example, Mearns has a wide torso, and that is a body type issue that is unrelated to weight.  Xiomara Reyes essentially had no neck, and that is a body type issue that is unrelated to weight.  

 

Edited May 13 by abatt

[MarzipanShepherdess]

 

On 5/12/2024 at 9:57 AM, deanofdance said:

2) Other Dances — how different was this ballet with Joseph and Indiana, who really seemed to capture the spirit of the ballet.  Generalizing, Roman and Tiler are like the high school quarterback and head cheerleader, they are so All American (they’re like Taylor and Travis!) — and they’re show offs as well — bravura is their middle name.  But perhaps when a ballet isn’t technically daring that they are at a relative loss — and I think this was the case with Other Dances.  Joseph and Indiana seemed to have stepped out of Chopin’s Paris — Joseph can be so princely, so inherently elegant, and Indiana can be like a Brontë sister in toe shoes — and the music seemed to spark an inner life — especially in Indiana — whose epaulement can perfume a stage.  Lovely.

Agree 100%. Joe and Indiana were SO gorgeous in Other Dances and I do think a large part of why is that in addition to their technical refinement they both bring a real sense of interiority. Even in a plotless piece, with them one feels one is watching characters with rich inner worlds that are being manifest through dance, not just dancers executing steps with a lot of finesse.

My second time seeing Gustave Le Gray. It's interesting to me how divisive Tamowitz's work seems to be on these boards, but count me a fan. I enjoyed seeing this all-female cast of the ballet (the premiere was mixed-gender). It landed more powerfully for me with these dancers, there was an intriguing sense of sorority and authority amongst the four of them. And I just love the costumes and how they enhance the choreography in the way the fabric strips bring a contrast of roundness (in motion) and softness to all the slicing arms and legs.

[BalanchineFan]

1 hour ago, California said:

For those of you interested in Ashley Bouder, a new article just appeared:

https://www.romper.com/life/ashley-bouder-new-york-city-ballet-body-shaming

The last time I remember seeing her was in Coppelia pre-COVID, partnered by then-soloist Joe Gordon. I was amazed at her sizzling technique, but her smug facial expressions annoyed me. I also remember thinking: Gordon has a great future. Keep your eye on him. But I don't recall seeing her since then. New Yorkers who see her regularly are a better source of information on her current dancing.

I saw Bouder this weekend in Dances at a Gathering. Bouder has definitely gained weight, but I see that as different from being "out of shape." She dances quite well in her limited repertory. She is not huffing and puffing and trying to move around. She's dancing well. As an aside, I once watched a rehearsal of Agon where one particular dancer could be heard huffing and puffing throughout the ballet. That, to me, is "out of shape,"  as in, physically de-conditioned, unprepared for the physical demands of the ballet. Though that dancer probably got into better shape by running the ballet.

That is not the case with Ashley Bouder today. She is just heavier than she was. Significantly heavier. I find it strange to see, but not an affront against modern ballet. Things change. I saw her perform the role in DAAG twice this season. I'm getting used to it, and it's a good role for her. I do wish she'd be more specific and smaller, actually, with her arm gestures, but that's a separate issue. And her facial expressions still lack depth and subtlety. I've seen her in modern works (memorable examples: Peck's New Blood - performed months after the birth of her daughter, The Runaway, and her own self-produced concerts) where her "face" was not an issue.

The issue of weight is so much bigger than any one dancer. New York City now has a law on the books against height and weight discrimination. People are not to be fired due to weight, or weight gain. Many are wondering what that means in the world of dance. I'm not a lawyer, and being physically able to perform your duties is part of the law, as well. Still, it's a possibility that Ashley Bouder has this law to thank for her continued employment and that the NYCB's required accommodation is casting her in these few roles. Another possibility is that the press wants to write about her because of the new law. Body positivity is a national movement.

https://www.nyc.gov/site/cchr/media/height-and-weight.page#:~:text=Overview,to as “body size.”

https://www.whitefordlaw.com/news-events/employment-law-update-nyc-employers-weight-height-discrimination-law#:~:text=Washington State prohibits discrimination based,%2C housing%2C and public accommodations.

[BalanchineFan]

44 minutes ago, vipa said:

In this respect, it's unfortunate that Bouder was the only dancer/mother interviewed. She seems to be at a difficult point in her career with a mix of issues and grievances. A number of dancers have young daughters, and there are many professional dancers whose mothers were dancers. It would have been nice to hear from some of them to get a fuller perspective. Of course I don't know the author's intent or how the piece came to be written, but a  variety of voices would have made a better piece IMO.

I agree. I would have loved to have heard Gillian Murphy (though she has a son), Catherine Hurlin (who's mother danced with Paul Taylor), Megan Fairchild, Patricia Delgado, Shelby Mann (daugher of Charlotte d'Amboise) and Brittany Pollack speak on this. They could have interviewed Darci Kistler as well. She has a daughter.

[cobweb]

I was also at yesterday's DAAG-BSQ matinee. Like @MarzipanShepherdess, I wonder why they don't do Brahms-Schoenberg more often. I'm glad it's coming back for next year. Miriam Miller looks spectacular as the tall soloist in the first movement; this is a role that shows her at her very best. Also agree about Alexa Maxwell looking like a lovely classical ballerina, Mira Nadon and Gilbert Bolden looking truly glamorous and wild with abandon, and Unity Phelan and Andrew Veyette having a blast in the Rondo alla Zingarese. I agree -- this is the Unity I want to see more of!

I know that not everyone is a fan of DAAG, and I feel like I'm hearing more criticisms of it than I have in years past. I still enjoyed it very much, with various moments of it drifting through my mind last night and this morning. The piano playing was rich and beautiful. This cast was stellar. Chun Wai Chan, Anthony Huxley, Aaron Sanz, Davide Riccardo -- what's not to love? Victor Abreu is delightful, with a smile and enthusiasm that's infectious. Indiana Woodward, Olivia MacKinnon, Emilie Gerrity, and young Dominika Afanasenkov all looked great.  

[abatt]

I love DAAG.  It is a work of great depth and meaning.  As I have watched it over the years, its meaning has changed in certain ways based on events that have occurred in my own life.  The first time I saw it I felt it was too long, and I thought the final tableau of all the dancers at the end was tacked on and unnecessary.  As I have aged, and lost people in my life, each time I see it I think of all of the relatives and friends who have passed on and how much I miss them. It evokes all of the places we used to go to and memories of the past.  Very few ballets have that effect on me.   The miracle of this ballet is in its small gestures. 

 

 

Edited May 13 by abatt

[Papagena]

5 hours ago, California said:

For those of you interested in Ashley Bouder, a new article just appeared:

https://www.romper.com/life/ashley-bouder-new-york-city-ballet-body-shaming

The last time I remember seeing her was in Coppelia pre-COVID, partnered by then-soloist Joe Gordon. I was amazed at her sizzling technique, but her smug facial expressions annoyed me. I also remember thinking: Gordon has a great future. Keep your eye on him. But I don't recall seeing her since then. New Yorkers who see her regularly are a better source of information on her current dancing.

She was fabulous up until her injury. Never really developed artistically as some of her peers but because her technique was so wonderful, she didn't need it. That niche is a very difficult one to maintain for later-career ballerinas, so I hope she can focus on how to make her remaining years with the company fulfilling while realizing that exclusion from many roles is because of a decline in technical abilities. I think the roles she has been given in the last year are fine, the issue is that this doesn't seem enough for her. 

This article isn't as generous to her as I thought it would be. The tone is sympathetic but it seems like the relationship between Bouder and the interviewer sours towards the end? Kind of odd. 

It's really hard for me to think of a lot of classic NYCB roles that are friendly to those who need a less demanding role. I can think of many at ABT, but not NYCB. None of the new choreographers are choosing to work with her either (I'm not sure how that works tbh). 

Edited May 13 by Papagena

[bellawood]

When I saw Bouder dance DAAG this year, it was her appearance that immediately shocked me—that she was so bulky. But then her dancing was stiff (her back was completely unbending, thus a very low arabesque), and her characterization seemed rooted in the same "winking at the audience" routine she's done forever. I agree she seems "in shape" in that she had no problem getting through the two dances. But, is that enough? With all the talent in the company?

My fundamental issue with Ashley Bouder is that she never progressed artistically and relied only on her stupendous jumping and turning. Now those talents are muted, but we are not left with a dancer who brings something new to a role in her wisdom and experience. I don't expect -- or want! -- perfect Russian-style bodies on stage. Dancers ARE all individuals. But her limited rep is partly a function of her limited imagination -- and her endless persecution complex must be exhausting for her employers and coworkers, even those sympathetic to her. 
 

[cobweb]

1 hour ago, abatt said:

I love DAAG.  It is a work of great depth and meaning.  As I have watched it over the years, its meaning has changed in certain ways based on events that have occurred in my own life.  The first time I saw it I felt it was too long, and I thought the final tableau of all the dancers at the end was tacked on and unnecessary.  As I have aged, and lost people in my life, each time I see it I think of all of the relatives and friends who have passed on and how much I miss them. It evokes all of the places we used to go to and memories of the past.  Very few ballets have that effect on me.   The miracle of this ballet is in its small gestures. 

 

Thank you for this beautiful comment, abatt. You are restoring my confidence in my enjoyment of Dances at a Gathering.

[BalanchineFan]

7 hours ago, cobweb said:

I know that not everyone is a fan of DAAG, and I feel like I'm hearing more criticisms of it than I have in years past. I still enjoyed it very much, with various moments of it drifting through my mind last night and this morning. The piano playing was rich and beautiful. This cast was stellar.

I love the ballet. With recent retirements  DAAG has had a lot of role debuts. It may work better with more seasoned performers, or dancers who have been in their roles longer. Not that the debuts themselves were shaky, just that things didn’t always jell. I’ve never seen that big lift go awry and I witnessed one miss and one gasp inducing near miss. I saw DAAG three times this season. Each cast had an issue with the lift at some point. I wonder what else was missed, glossed over, mis-timed or less than fully realized. That a ballet can withstand that, and still delight and move an audience, is a testament to its choreographic strength. 
 

[BalanchineFan]

A few quick, random highlights from Inside NYCB tonight:

Taylor Stanley is back and dancing beautifully, such time stopping clarity. They did a solo from Love Letter on Shuffle and performed in an excerpt of Red Angels with Emilie Gerrity, India Bradley and Davide Ricardo. I am not familiar with this ballet and I’m now very excited to see it. India Bradley is built for it with her long legs, sharp attack and extreme lines. I’ve also become an Emilie Gerrity fan (this and her lovely DAAG this season!). Davide also looked fabulous.  They all look spectacular in their red unitards.

Emma von Enck was another stand out dancing a solo from Pulcinella. She has that gift of being completely still for a moment in the middle of furiously fast choreography. Everything so crisp, clean and surprising.

Wendy hosted and asked Miriam Miller, Taylor Stanley and Andrew Veyette to talk about how being in new work has helped them grow as artists and also influenced their work in existing rep. It was quite inspiring. They expressed a lot of mutual respect and gratitude for their other, spectacular colleagues.

Edited May 14 by BalanchineFan

[deanofdance]

I wasn’t sure what to expect from tonight’s “Future of NYCB” — but what a very pleasant surprise — so much better than expected and a real, real treat (perhaps that’s the secret — have low expectations!).   Everyone was delightful (well, except the Pam Tanowitz — yawn).  The real surprise was Unity and Veyette in This Bitter Earth — it was very good from the start and just kept building and building.  Both dancers were excellent — and Unity seems to be on a wave of confidence — and getting better by the day.  
And Rommie Tomasini has caught my attention — from Interplay and tonight’s Pictures at an Exhibition.  

[Marta]

abatt said:

Posted 10 hours ago (edited)

I love DAAG.  It is a work of great depth and meaning.  As I have watched it over the years, its meaning has changed in certain ways based on events that have occurred in my own life.  The first time I saw it I felt it was too long, and I thought the final tableau of all the dancers at the end was tacked on and unnecessary.  As I have aged, and lost people in my life, each time I see it I think of all of the relatives and friends who have passed on and how much I miss them. It evokes all of the places we used to go to and memories of the past.  Very few ballets have that effect on me.   The miracle of this ballet is in its small gestures. 

I love DAAG too and consider it Robbins's  greatest ballet. I also thought it was borderline too long the first viewing but not any more.  Chopin and Robbins together is perfect.  I find new aspects each time I see it.

[abatt]

NYCB has not done In Memory Of or Ives, Songs by Robbins in some time.  They are not as good as DAAG, but they are worthwhile works.  

 

 

[Royal Blue]

There has to be something about a dancer that makes them appealing to look at when they are performing on stage, and leaves a mark on the mind and soul after a performance finishes. This necessarily involves physical appearance, but also technique, artistry, musicality, strength somehow fused with ethereality, sound judgment—in sum, the mysterious way assorted elements combine in a fashion that is both impossible and inadvisable to disentangle. Disregarding a person's appearance on the stage is untenable. However, a certain indefinable attractiveness—not physical beauty per se—is what makes a dancer truly beautiful. 

Additionally, dancing in a ballet company is not just another job, although there are obvious reasons why it may be considered so. Becoming a ballet dancer involves years of training at a young age. A dancer's perception of their art has to evolve and blossom as they gain performing experience, learn about the wider world, and grow into adulthood. The ultimate goal and achievement of a ballet dancer should be to communicate in performance a lofty appreciation of the art form. Certainly, ballet is profoundly visual. The work of its most successful interpreters, nevertheless, stirs deep emotion, and intimates to the imagination the infinite universe invisible to the eye.  

There was plenty of transporting beauty in the dancing of the Dances at a Gathering—Brahms-Schoenberg Quartet program on Sunday. To be sure, by several men mentioned above. This was especially the case with the women in the cast, though. Indiana Woodward (in pink), and Emilie Gerrity (in mauve) were stupendous in Dances. After a tenuous effort in the second movement of Brahms two weeks ago, Olivia MacKinnon (in apricot) was simply stunning in the wonderful ballet by Robbins. With a smoothness, flow and musicality that were sublime, Mira Nadon demonstrated how the second movement of Brahms-Schoenberg Quartet should be danced. Finally, both Miriam Miller in the first movement, and Unity Phelan in Rondo alla Zingarese were dazzling.

Edited May 14 by Royal Blue

[abatt]

In terms of progress this entire 24-25 Season, a few people made enormous progress as artists.  Olivia MacKinnon tops the list.  She has made tremendous progress in interpretation and projection.  

[On Pointe]

On 5/13/2024 at 12:06 PM, BalanchineFan said:

I saw Bouder this weekend in Dances at a Gathering. Bouder has definitely gained weight, but I see that as different from being "out of shape." She dances quite well in her limited repertory. She is not huffing and puffing and trying to move around. She's dancing well. As an aside, I once watched a rehearsal of Agon where one particular dancer could be heard huffing and puffing throughout the ballet. That, to me, is "out of shape,"  as in, physically de-conditioned, unprepared for the physical demands of the ballet. Though that dancer probably got into better shape by running the ballet.

That is not the case with Ashley Bouder today. She is just heavier than she was. Significantly heavier. I find it strange to see, but not an affront against modern ballet. Things change. I saw her perform the role in DAAG twice this season. I'm getting used to it, and it's a good role for her. I do wish she'd be more specific and smaller, actually, with her arm gestures, but that's a separate issue. And her facial expressions still lack depth and subtlety. I've seen her in modern works (memorable examples: Peck's New Blood - performed months after the birth of her daughter, The Runaway, and her own self-produced concerts) where her "face" was not an issue.

The issue of weight is so much bigger than any one dancer. New York City now has a law on the books against height and weight discrimination. People are not to be fired due to weight, or weight gain. Many are wondering what that means in the world of dance. I'm not a lawyer, and being physically able to perform your duties is part of the law, as well. Still, it's a possibility that Ashley Bouder has this law to thank for her continued employment and that the NYCB's required accommodation is casting her in these few roles. Another possibility is that the press wants to write about her because of the new law. Body positivity is a national movement.

https://www.nyc.gov/site/cchr/media/height-and-weight.page#:~:text=Overview,to as “body size.”

https://www.whitefordlaw.com/news-events/employment-law-update-nyc-employers-weight-height-discrimination-law#:~:text=Washington State prohibits discrimination based,%2C housing%2C and public accommodations.

It's doubtful that laws against weight discrimination and "body positivity" movements will have any effect on ballet companies.  There are many professions where weight has no impact on employees'  ability to do their jobs.  Dancing in a ballet company is not one of them.  The law can't compel the owners of thoroughbred horses to employ two hundred and fifty pound jockeys either.  There's nothing positive about morbidly obese people risking serious injury trying to execute leaps and pointe work.  There are a number of cringe-inducing videos on YouTube of overweight people in ballet class,  unable to close fifth or relevé on straight knees. 

Of course Ashley Bouder is nowhere near that heavy.  But from what I've seen,  she can no longer fit into her old costumes.  Under Actors Equity rules,  gaining so much weight that your costumes need to be rebuilt is grounds for firing.  Actors are required to maintain the same look from the day they are hired until the end of their contracts,  because it can cost a production  thousands of dollars to refit costumes. ( I don't know if there is a similar provision under AGMA rules.).   Company directors still can't be compelled to hire dancers that they don't want,  no matter what they weigh.

[vipa]

1 hour ago, On Pointe said:

It's doubtful that laws against weight discrimination and "body positivity" movements will have any effect on ballet companies. 

I doubt that Bouder's employment is in question. The issue for her will be casting. A technically easy role in DAAG is all she's been given this season. She doesn't seem technically able to reclaim her old rep. This means management has to find new rep for her in order to cast her. This can be problematic. I recall an interview with Merrill Ashley in which she said that towards the end of her career, when she was plagued by injuries, she asked for easier rep, and ran into an issue because other dancers had those ballets in their rep. Casting is a zero sum game.