Catazaro Declines NYCB Reinstatement; Ramasar to Rejoin

[Balletwannabe]

He was most often partnered with Mearns, I think?  It will be interesting to see if they end up on stage again.  As far as I remember I don't believe she has shown him any public support.

[GretchenStar]

On 4/20/2019 at 9:18 AM, NinaFan said:

I hope you're wrong.  If so, the union accomplished nothing.

When I saw the articles about the reinstatement, I thought about what it would mean in practical terms.  The dancers would be placed back on the roster and they would be paid.  It doesn't mean they must get cast (unless there's a stipulation in the contract on casting for principal dancers?), nor will it guarantee a contract for next year.  But I feel that it's not the point of AGMA's challenge - it's about what the firing of these two dancers would mean in terms of setting a precedence for possible future cases (and for dancers in other companies as well).

I think there were two main discussion points that were brought up in the original thread:

1) Can an employer (NYCB) dictate what their employees do in their non-work hours, even if the alleged activity doesn't take place in the workplace or involve other employees?

Looks like the arbitrator is saying "yes, they can".  Per NYCB's statement, the arbitrator ruled that NYCB was justified in disciplining Catazaro and Ramasar and that suspension was appropriate.  I'm not surprised by this.  Depending on state law and collective bargaining agreements (CBA), employers usually have a fair amount of leeway in disciplining their employees (even if the activity has not been litigated in court).

2) Was firing the two dancers an appropriate punishment for this type of alleged activity?

I feel the arbitrator is saying "no, the severity of the alleged activity does not meet a threshold for (essentially) an immediate firing".  But that doesn't necessarily mean that other types of activity, whether criminal or or not, wouldn't warrant an immediate firing.  For example, from what I know about CBAs for clerical unions, employees are supposed to get a verbal warning first; if the activity continues, then a written warning; and lastly termination.  But my guess is that there are some activities that could warrant an immediate dismissal.

AGMA's challenge of NYCB's firings was only for Catazaro and Ramasar, so we don't know whether the arbitrator would have ruled the same for Finlay.

Edited April 22, 2019 by GretchenStar

[NinaFan]

14 hours ago, Balletwannabe said:

He was most often partnered with Mearns, I think?  It will be interesting to see if they end up on stage again.  As far as I remember I don't believe she has shown him any public support.

Megan Fairchild has made it clear on social media (see link below) how painful it was to dance with her ex-husband.  The point I am trying to make is that there are dancers who have difficulties/issues dancing with certain partners. 

With the exception of two “anonymous” women cited in the NYTimes, I am hoping that Ramasar is welcomed back with open arms.    I honestly don’t believe that anyone is actually in fear of him.  If so, I hope his “counseling” alleviates anyone’s concerns. 

https://www.instagram.com/p/BPtYeRQBUqp/?hl=en&taken-by=mfairchild17

Edited April 22, 2019 by NinaFan

[NYCgirl]

Ramasar is back on the NYCB website. Nice video of him talking about 'Pictures at an Exhibition'. I do wish he was dancing in his originated role this week!

https://www.nycballet.com/Dancers/Dancers-Bios/Amar-Ramasar.aspx

[NinaFan]

33 minutes ago, NYCgirl said:

Ramasar is back on the NYCB website. Nice video of him talking about 'Pictures at an Exhibition'. I do wish he was dancing in his originated role this week!

https://www.nycballet.com/Dancers/Dancers-Bios/Amar-Ramasar.aspx

Yay!  The last time I checked the website was yesterday, and he still wasn't listed! 

Welcome to Ballet Alert NYCgirl!

[abatt]

On 4/20/2019 at 11:25 AM, Villette said:

The company has no obligation to cast Ramasar and no obligation to renew his contract after this season. They only have to reinstate him for the remainder of the season in name and pay. 

If the company does not renew Ramasar's contract for next season, it's almost guaranteed that everyone will be back before a new arbitrator litigating the issue of whether the failure to renew is a stunt by NYCB to circumvent the arbitrator's recent ruling ordering his reinstatement. Hopefully NYCB will  not be so stupid as to attempt to deny Ramasar the renewal of his contract for next season.

It will be interesting to see what roles he returns to this season, and who his partners are.

[Helene]

Unless there's something in his contract that requires the Company to give him a certain amount of notice before not renewing his contract, and/or the arbitrator has included renewal among the terms, but this additional term hasn't be made public, the Company has no obligation to renew.

From what has been made public, the arbitrator made a decision about his current contract. 

[nanushka]

9 minutes ago, abatt said:

It will be interesting to see what roles he returns to this season, and who his partners are.

Would it be a safe assumption that most of the major casting for the next 6 weeks — not necessarily all the specific dates and details, but the general "who's dancing what" — had already been at least informally assigned before the contract was reinstated?

Edited April 22, 2019 by nanushka

[abatt]

The company probably already had a plan in place for each lead role, but sometimes plans must be changed.

Added:  Re Helene's comment above, the company does have a contractual requirement under which it must notify dancers whose contracts will not be renewed for the next season by February. 

Edited April 22, 2019 by abatt

[miliosr]

On ‎4‎/‎20‎/‎2019 at 10:42 PM, Pique Arabesque said:

for a nearly 40 year old man 

This is a telling detail. Ramasar will be 39 this year. Regardless of whether City Ballet cuts him loose at the first contractually feasible time or sticks with him to the end (however awkward that may be), he's going to age out sooner rather later.

[NinaFan]

3 hours ago, miliosr said:

This is a telling detail. Ramasar will be 39 this year. Regardless of whether City Ballet cuts him loose at the first contractually feasible time or sticks with him to the end (however awkward that may be), he's going to age out sooner rather later.

For what it's worth, Wikipedia has Ramasar as being born 1981/1982.  Elsewhere I have seen an exact birth date of 12/9/81.  Either way he is no older than 37 right now.  Interesting that in an ABT thread everyone wants to see Gomes dance again (me included).  Gomes was born 9/26/79 and will be 40 this year.  So why is Ramasar aging out, while someone two years his senior not?  By the way, I am huge fan of both dancers, and it was a joy to see Gomes dance with Sarasota Ballet.  It left me wanting for more.  As an aside, De Luz was in his 40's when he retired.

[miliosr]

29 minutes ago, NinaFan said:

For what it's worth, Wikipedia has Ramasar as being born 1981/1982.  Elsewhere I have seen an exact birth date of 12/9/81.  Either way he is no older than 37 right now.  Interesting that in an ABT thread everyone wants to see Gomes dance again (me included).  Gomes was born 9/26/79 and will be 40 this year.  So why is Ramasar aging out, while someone two years his senior not?  By the way, I am huge fan of both dancers, and it was a joy to see Gomes dance with Sarasota Ballet.  It left me wanting for more.  As an aside, De Luz was in his 40's when he retired.

Regardless of whether Ramasar will be 38 or 39 this year, he's still in his late-30s. Perhaps, like Roberto Bolle, he will defy the odds and keep going strong for another 10 years. But, as I wrote, it's more likely that he will age out sooner rather than later. None of us can predict for certain what will happen, though. (As for De Luz, if it's correct that he was born in 1976, then he aged out in his early 40s.)

[abatt]

Yes, DeLuz was in his early forties when he retired.   That info is correct.

[Balletwannabe]

I found 3 articles referencing his age in past years; he's 37.

Edited April 23, 2019 by Balletwannabe

[BalanchineFan]

On 4/21/2019 at 9:16 PM, Balletwannabe said:

He was most often partnered with Mearns, I think?  It will be interesting to see if they end up on stage again.  As far as I remember I don't believe she has shown him any public support.

He also regularly partnered Maria in Agon, and Tiler in Tschaikosky Piano Concerto #2 and in several Peck pieces (Times Are Racing, Rodeo... where Tiler and Sara shared the lead woman's role).

Maria doesn't have any problem dancing with him judging from Ballet Next. Maria speaks about their parnership in the Agon video on the NYCB website. She mentions the tricky partnering when she's in arabesque penché and he goes onto his back, "Amar's pretty much got it down with me" meaning he doesn't knock her off pointe. Maria and Amar were also paired in Herman Schmerman. They were spectacular.

Edited April 24, 2019 by BalanchineFan

[NinaFan]

On 4/21/2019 at 9:16 PM, Balletwannabe said:

He was most often partnered with Mearns, I think?  It will be interesting to see if they end up on stage again.  As far as I remember I don't believe she has shown him any public support.

Mearns not commenting on social media is not indicative of a position one way or the other.

[BalanchineFan]

On 4/20/2019 at 9:53 AM, Kathleen O'Connell said:

Had Finlay texted derogatory comments about his colleagues and peers based on their race, religion, or sexual orientation, and, had the recipients of those texts willingly participated in the conversation, would we think he—and they—should be allowed to remain in the workplace?

 

 

I don’t see an equivalence. However one might judge the actions of the dancers regarding the photo sharing scandal (I'm not excusing or condoning), sexuality itself is human. It’s hardwired into our DNA. Men and women are both sexual beings. As people we all have some interest in sexual activity, curiosity about images of other bodies, etc. None of us would exist if not for our ancestors' physical attraction to each other, their interest and participation in sexual activity. It’s the expression of that interest and its combination with power, consent and the workplace that make it an issue. The context is everything.

 

That is not true of derogatory comments, whether they concern race, religion or sexual orientation (or a private photo sharing thread). Derogatory comments are not aspects of human behavior that are hardwired or essential to our survival. 

[Kathleen O'Connell]

2 minutes ago, BalanchineFan said:

 

I don’t see an equivalence. However one might judge the actions of the dancers regarding the photo sharing scandal (I'm not excusing or condoning), sexuality itself is human. It’s hardwired into our DNA. Men and women are both sexual beings. As people we all have some interest in sexual activity, curiosity about images of other bodies, etc. None of us would exist if not for our ancestors' physical attraction to each other, their interest and participation in sexual activity. It’s the expression of that interest and its combination with power, consent and the workplace that make it an issue. The context is everything.

 

That is not true of derogatory comments, whether they concern race, religion or sexual orientation (or a private photo sharing thread). Derogatory comments are not aspects of human behavior that are hardwired or essential to our survival. 

I would consider some of the comments the participants in the group chat are alleged to have made about their female colleague and peers to be derogatory in the extreme, e.g., "I bet we could tie some of them up and abuse them... Like farm animals" to which defendant responded, "Or like the sluts they are".  Calling your colleagues "sluts" is not essential to survival.

[BalanchineFan]

2 minutes ago, Kathleen O'Connell said:

I would consider some of the comments the participants in the group chat are alleged to have made about their female colleague and peers to be derogatory in the extreme, e.g., "I bet we could tie some of them up and abuse them... Like farm animals" to which defendant responded, "Or like the sluts they are".  Calling your colleagues "sluts" is not essential to survival.

So we agree that derogatory comments are not essential to survival. Amar Ramasar didn't make any of those comments, and I haven't seen anything that makes it clear he received them either.

[Kathleen O'Connell]

5 minutes ago, BalanchineFan said:

So we agree that derogatory comments are not essential to survival. Amar Ramasar didn't make any of those comments, and I haven't seen anything that makes it clear he received them either.

My impression from Waterbury's complaint is that both Ramasar and Catazaro participated in group chats with Finlay in which explicit photographs of their female colleagues and peers were exchanged. Since the texts in the aggregate have not been made public, we have no way of knowing the extent to which either man was a participant in the denigration of their peers and colleagues, and my original post did not in fact accuse them specifically. Rather, my point was that the activity couldn't be dismissed because "it had nothing to do with work." When one suggests that one's colleagues and peers should be tied up and abused like farm animals—whether it's because of their gender, their race, their religion, their sexual orientation—it has everything to do with work no matter when and where it takes place. 

[Balletwannabe]

6 hours ago, NinaFan said:

Mearns not commenting on social media is not indicative of a position one way or the other.

That's why I'm interested to see if they dance together again.  

[mille-feuille]

2 hours ago, BalanchineFan said:

That is not true of derogatory comments, whether they concern race, religion or sexual orientation (or a private photo sharing thread). Derogatory comments are not aspects of human behavior that are hardwired or essential to our survival.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/05/050525105357.htm

Some would argue otherwise. I believe that the struggle to overcome these base tendencies is part of what makes someone a worthy human being.

[NYCgirl]

8 hours ago, Kathleen O'Connell said:

My impression from Waterbury's complaint is that both Ramasar and Catazaro participated in group chats with Finlay in which explicit photographs of their female colleagues and peers were exchanged. Since the texts in the aggregate have not been made public, we have no way of knowing the extent to which either man was a participant in the denigration of their peers and colleagues, and my original post did not in fact accuse them specifically. Rather, my point was that the activity couldn't be dismissed because "it had nothing to do with work." When one suggests that one's colleagues and peers should be tied up and abused like farm animals—whether it's because of their gender, their race, their religion, their sexual orientation—it has everything to do with work no matter when and where it takes place. 

If you go back and re-read the complaint against Ramasar you will not find any evidence that he participated in these said group conversations. Many people have come to the same conclusion based on how the media lumped the three boys and donor together. There is nothing in the lawsuit that accuses Ramasar of making comments about "farm animals", "sluts", religion, race, gender or anything like about his colleagues. He is only quoted in text conversations solely between him and Finlay. Ramasar also clarifies on his second Instagram post (below) after being terminated that he was not part of any group messages. He expresses having photos of one, consenting adult (assuming this is his girlfriend based on apology in the post), and that he does take responsibility for his part. Again, if that adult has forgiven and consented in their private life, then I view that as being the most important part in his moving on. Being in a ballet company is not a popularity contest, and humanity comes with mistakes... nobody is perfect. This does not indicate that I condone the alleged behavior in any way, but it is time to move on.

 

 

Edited April 25, 2019 by NYCgirl

[NinaFan]

45 minutes ago, Balletwannabe said:

That's why I'm interested to see if they dance together again.  

Sure, that makes sense. 

[Kathleen O'Connell]

I remain agnostic as to the extent to which Ramasar and Catazaro participated in the most egregious of Finlay's group chats. (The details provided on page 12 of the complaint suggest that Ramasar did actively seek out explicit photos: "52. On May 21, 2018, another NEW YORK CITY BALLET, INC. principal, Amar Ramasar texted Mr. Finlay, "I love you! Text me those, photos/videos!!") 

Since I don't have to work with either man—and they are men, not boys—it's not for me to say whether or not his colleagues can or should "move on." That's for them to decide.