bart Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 In the Spartacus thread, zerbinetta makes a paradoxical point -- but one that has the ring of truth. This is possibly the most wonderful bad ballet ever choreographed. This set me to thinking: there must be others. Are there any other ballets --or bits of ballets -- that strike you as being "bad" work" (cheesy, tasteless, over-the-top, ludicrous, pompous, sophomoric, or whatever "bad" means to you") but which have "greatness" in them, or which you personally enjoy a lot, in spite of or maybe even because you know they're not great work? Right now I can only think of an opera -- Fanciulla del West in each of the several productions I've seen. Despite some beautiful music, the English title -- "Girl of the Golden West" -- makes me cringe. Ditto the bizarre images of frontier life and the recurrent cries of "Minnie," "Minnie". (Mouse? Mouse?) I've returned several times to see if anyone can really get it right. Any similar reactions to ballets or ballet-parts? Link to comment
Hans Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 Puccini did some rather strange things in his operas. For example, he has Manon Lescaut and Des Grieux die in a desert in Louisiana. Perhaps the Louisiana topography has changed a good deal since the early 20th century. :rolleyes: In terms of ballet, I really like Le Corsaire even though the plot is utterly ridiculous, I love it anyway. Link to comment
Alexandra Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 Okay, I'll bite I actually think Roland Petit's "Carmen" is NOT a bad ballet. Not a great one, but "very good for what it is." But saying that at a dance critics' conference causes lots of sniffs, and people suddenly remembering that they need to feed the meter. So I'll say "Carmen." It's got a great pas de deux, two great roles and three good small parts, solid construction, and it's a crowd pleaser. So it's a superficial treatment of the book -- it gets to the heart of things! Great topic, Bart. Hope there are other brave souls out there.... Link to comment
nysusan Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 Well, Polovtsian Dances, for sure! Even with a chorus & well done it's still the height of kitsh. But I love it. Also Marguarite & Armand, though to a lesser degree. I don't consider that to be a bad ballet, just not a great one. But with the right cast it's pretty irresistible Link to comment
Alexandra Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 I almost put "Marguerite and Armand," because some have written that it's a bad ballet, a view with which I disagree. I really think many don't understand it -- they expect a linear storytelling ballet, and that's not what Ashton set out to do. But it was irresistible!! (I haven't seen a right cast since the original, but I think there are many dancers who could be interesting in those roles.) Link to comment
bart Posted July 25, 2005 Author Share Posted July 25, 2005 Alexandra, thanks for mentioning Petit. I've seen (on video) the last scene of his Cyrano de Bergerac. Petit danced the title role. The death scene is a masterpiece of obviousness, with Petit -- unwilling to admit to Constance that he has been mortally wounded -- does several courtly steps, then staggers a bit, then does more courtly steps, and on and on. Meanwhile, Constance does virtually nothing. The scene in Rostand's play is so wonderful, you can't help but admire this sincere but ridiculous attempt to turn it into dance. Turn off the music and you have a rather touching 20s silent film. Link to comment
Hans Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 I just thought of a ballet that more people will credibly think is bad that I enjoy--Maurice Béjart's création mondiale from early 2002. If I just saw it "cold" I'd probably hate it too, but some of my personal friends and classmates were in the original cast...and I really do find many of the concepts quite interesting. Link to comment
Giselle05 Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 Alexandra, I just watched Marguerite and Armand with Fonteyn and Nureyev, and I thought it was so beautiful. Has it ever been danced by anyone else, and is that a possibility? I, too, have some dancers in mind. Link to comment
Helene Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 I have a thing for Spartacus, especially Maris Liepa's Crassus from the film. He's just so baaad. (The character, I mean.) Link to comment
Alexandra Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 bart, the few Petit ballets I've seen have been performance pieces -- very dependent on the dancers. With powerful performers, it works (the Danes were known for their productions of "Cyrano" and especially "Carmen," which was a core rep piece for them, and several leading dancers, for more than a decade. AND his "L'Arlsienne" in Paris (I've only seen a tape) was wonderful. BUT if you "just dance it" they're, well, awful Giselle05, the Royal Ballet revived "Marguerite and Armand" a few seasons ago for Sylvie Guillem who danced it with both Nicolas Le Riche (POB) and Jonathan Cope -- and perhaps someone else. I didn't think much of those casts (they danced at the Kennedy Center a few seasons ago) but I do believe that the ballet could sustain other casts. I've read that Lynn Seymour and Christopher Gable were to be the second cast, but that the ballet was so identified with Fonteyn and Nureyev that there was no second cast. Helene, I have a soft spot for "Spartacus" too, but I don't think it's a bad ballet. Again, I think it might depend on the cast. There's a perfectly valid argument that ballets that are cast dependent are bad ballets; I just don't happen to agree with it Link to comment
zerbinetta Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 This is heresy, I know, but I'd also cast a vote for Balanchine's "Adagio Lamentosa". When Ballet Review had their category list for reviewing, this ballet fell into the "insufferable masterpieces" box. A special case, perhaps worth a category of its own; it was wrenching & dreadful & made me blub. Mr B, with diminished means, letting us know we would survive his passing. I think Massimo Murru was also one of Guillem's partners for M&A. Link to comment
Mel Johnson Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 There are two ballets which have been called "bad ballets" that I just love. One is Lew Christiansen's flyweight comedy, "Con Amore" and the other is Agnes de Mille's melodramatic "Fall River Legend". They both have their places in the repertoire, and they might even, with the right "middle", be part of a nice three-bill. Link to comment
ami1436 Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 Tamara Rojo will be making her debut as Marguerite in RB's next season. Link to comment
koshka Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 DonQ done for an audience of schoolchildren, the schmaltzier the better. While the audience will not be schoolchildren, I have been claiming that Wolf Trap scheduled the Bolshoi to do DonQ the weekend of my birthday _just for me_. Link to comment
Paul Parish Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 Mel, I totally agree with you about both of those -- and I should say, Oakland Ballet made a truly convincing case for Fall River Legend. but re Spartacus -- I don't agree that it's a bad ballet. It IS an ugly ballet, but I think it's a great thing, and its ugliness is absolutely necessary to the kind of greatness in it, like some twisted ancient tree that's growing in the desert or hanging onto some mountain crag.... "Spartacus" actually seems to be archaic, it has an epoch, a style, a "register" of images and rhythms that allows a kind of heroic ideal to get portrayed -- the tenacity is the point, Spartacus's ability to hold on and endure not just cruelty but massive indifference to human rights and not sink into despair. It couldn't be beautiful, but it can be sublime.... Link to comment
atm711 Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 Tudor's 'Undertow' received many mixed reviews, but I loved it--especially when I figured out all the Greek names. If Balanchine's Don Q can be revived, surely 'Undertow' is more than deserving of another look. Link to comment
Mme. Hermine Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 Shucks Mel, I thought Con Amore was a great little funny ballet! I mean, Shakespeare it ain't but it was a lot of fun, did people really think it was bad? Link to comment
FauxPas Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 I happen to love those old Soviet thrill-machines "Spring Waters" and "Walpurgisnacht Ballet". Would Gsovsky's "Grand Pas Classique" fit into this category? I would give anything to have seen Cynthia Gregory dance it with a cigarette dangling from her lips... If you want to see lots of bad choreography, check out some of the Paris Opera Ballet videos of contemporary works. There is one "Paris Opera Ballet: Seven Ballets" that has execrable choreography by the appropriately named Norbert Schmucki. These include ghastly clichés that you remember from high school dance recitals like a ballerina emerging from a paper chrysalis with tulle wings as a butterfly being born. There is another where two dancers are done up as Mickey and Minnie Mouse and mince around. Truly vile. That is not on my list of bad ballets I love... Link to comment
zerbinetta Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 Might there not be a difference between enjoyable trashy ballets & great bad ballets? Spartacus has a plot & tells a story clearly & efficiently. The characters are clearly delineated. There is no argument between the score & the choreography. It arcs to a climax & resolves in apotheosis. It makes sense. Its "badness" to me lies in the fact that it is outrageously manipulative & moralistic. It's characters are totally one dimensional. &, yes, it has a good deal of trashy choreography. But it is pure in a balletic sense. Enjoyable trashy ballets (Petit's Coppelia comes to mind) don't pretend to greatness or purity. They are pure entertainment. The suggestion of Spring Waters & Walpurgisnacht (Bolshoi version) along with Diana & Acteon & that ilk would seem to me to fall into the trashy ballets that we love anyway category. I hope this makes sense. Link to comment
Mel Johnson Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 Moszkowsky Waltz! And besides, it's fun to dance! Link to comment
Mel Johnson Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 Shucks Mel, I thought Con Amore was a great little funny ballet! I mean, Shakespeare it ain't but it was a lot of fun, did people really think it was bad? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Oh yeah, some critics used to really bomb it! But I love it! Link to comment
BalletNut Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 I'll second Grand Pas Classique, especially with Sylvie Guillem. Guillem's rendition of the ballet, with Legris, is on one of the aforementioned execrable POB tapes with Schmucki ballets. One of them, with quasi-matador choreography, could be called "a bad ballet I sort of liked." Entertaining in the same way as a Dolly Dinkle recital, perhaps. My favorite "bad" ballet for now, however, would have to be La Fille Du Pharaon, the plot of which makes Le Corsaire look simple and profound. (Of course, the dancers in blackface were rather painful to watch). But seeing so many steps and so many variations crammed into one ballet, with ridiculously opulent sets and costumes, set to over-the-top "Drinkus" music (Pugni, actually)...it's like the ballet equivalent of a pint of Ben & Jerry's. A guilty pleasure if there ever was one, and one of the most politically incorrect I've ever seen. I don't even mind Zakharova's extensions here; they're somewhat fitting. Another one that deserves mentioning is the Barber's Adagio on the Mariinsky Ballet-Kirov Classics video, featuring Evteeva and Aliev in Vinogradov's attempt at fusion choreography, alternately rolling around on the floor and posing geometrically in sequined blue unitards. Vinogradov's avant-garde Petrushka, in the same compilation, is bad too, but just plain boring. Link to comment
Hans Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 Diana and Actaeon is Petipa and therefore not trashy. Link to comment
zerbinetta Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 Diana and Actaeon is Petipa and therefore not trashy. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Oops, sorry. Another heresy. :-D How do you feel about Miss Julie? Link to comment
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