Follow-up to Sugarplumgate

[FayBallet]

1 hour ago, Barbara said:

The lady in question was former principal Jenifer Ringer! 

Speaking of Ms. Ringer, Alastair Macaulay recently wrote a reflection on Sugarplumgate:

https://www.alastairmacaulay.com/all-essays/1eskyjoa8qihzt034doh7gdv4bedfp

[Balletwannabe]

We're just so used to seeing underweight dancers that an average sized one appears, "fat".  The confusion and ignorance is understandable.

Edited October 18, 2021 by Balletwannabe

[Kathleen O'Connell]

Sigh. He almost gets it. 

"You may well want to see fewer of the showier lifts in today’s dance repertory: I’m among those who’ve written that there’s been too much manipulation of women in dance, especially (but not only) in ballet. But plenty of twenty-first-century choreographers have been using them. Is it really time for the twenty-first-century ballerina to start gaining a few pounds?"

Well, if "plenty of twenty-first-century choreographers" are making dances that require super-thin ballerinas, that clearly means that ballerinas are therefore obliged to starve themselves. Or, choreographers could make dances that celebrate all kinds of bodies.

[On Pointe]

My reaction to the piece can be summed up by the title of a Johnny Mathis - Deniece Williams song:  Too Much,  Too Little,  Too Late.  The world has moved on.  (So many song titles are apt here - Looking For Love in All the Wrong Places,  Who Cares?,  Let It Go.)

[Helene]

In this particular situation, we had a dancer who herself said it took a couple of weeks of active class and rehearsals at the beginning of a season to be in proper shape and weight, and an Artistic Director who cast her for Opening Night of the run, when there would be critics, instead of giving her the two weeks to get back into shape.

And Macaulay was far more critical of her partner Angle's weight, than hers.

[On Pointe]

6 hours ago, Helene said:

In this particular situation, we had a dancer who herself said it took a couple of weeks of active class and rehearsals at the beginning of a season to be in proper shape and weight, and an Artistic Director who cast her for Opening Night of the run, when there would be critics, instead of giving her the two weeks to get back into shape.

And Macaulay was far more critical of her partner Angle's weight, than hers.

I don't understand - wouldn't all the other dancers have the same challenges as Ringer in getting into shape at the beginning of the season?  You seem to be suggesting that Martins deliberately set her up to be ridiculed by Macaulay.

No one remembers the critique of Angle because women get needled about their weight,  not men.  I remember that Jenifer Ringer even appeared on Oprah,  where Oprah expressed surprise that Ringer had small children.  She was probably not interested at the time,  but Ringer could have finessed a high profile media career out of all the exposure she got from Macaulay's bitchy offhand remark.  She did very well for herself on the show.

[Helene]

31 minutes ago, On Pointe said:

I don't understand - wouldn't all the other dancers have the same challenges as Ringer in getting into shape at the beginning of the season?  You seem to be suggesting that Martins deliberately set her up to be ridiculed by Macaulay.

They either all don't, or they are coming from other gigs where they are in shape, or they get into shape ahead of time doing other things.  Ringer said -- maybe in her book or maybe in the interview she did with Peter Boal on her book tour -- that the way she got into shape was through rehearsals and performances at the beginning of the season.

 Martins knew he had a dancer with a history of not being ready that early by her own admission, yet he cast her anyway, and he didn't withdraw the casting with her in less than optimal shape at the time.  It doesn't matter what his intention was: the buck for casting stopped with him.

31 minutes ago, On Pointe said:

No one remembers the critique of Angle because women get needled about their weight,  not men. 

If that were the case, men in dance (and judged sports like gymnastics and figure skating, aside from those where making specific weight is required) wouldn't have eating disorders.

[On Pointe]

22 minutes ago, Helene said:

They either all don't, or they are coming from other gigs where they are in shape, or they get into shape ahead of time doing other things.  Ringer said -- maybe in her book or maybe in the interview she did with Peter Boal on her book tour -- that the way she got into shape was through rehearsals and performances at the beginning of the season.

 Martins knew he had a dancer with a history of not being ready that early by her own admission, yet he cast her anyway, and he didn't withdraw the casting with her in less than optimal shape at the time.  It doesn't matter what his intention was: the buck for casting stopped with him.

If that were the case, men in dance (and judged sports like gymnastics and figure skating, aside from those where making specific weight is required) wouldn't have eating disorders.

I mean needled in print as a common thing.  Sure,  some men have eating disorders,  including men who work in offices and on construction sites and are never subjected to public discussions of their bodies at all.  But it's still far more common in women.

I still don't get why Martins was wrong for casting Ringer,  unless you feel that her idiosyncratic method of getting into shape for the season should have been accomodated.  Presumably she was paid from the first day of the season,  so why not expect her to be ready?

[vipa]

I found the Alistair essay quite interesting. He brought up a lot of ideas that, IMO, can be difficult to grapple with. In ballet, we deem one body as better than another. I've read over and over how incredible Maria Kowroski's legs are and how seeing those legs in Slaughter or Agon etc. was special (and I agree). Some viewers didn't think Lovette suited to After the Rain, because of her small size. We look for some kind of "perfection" in ballet, and perfection can mean different things to different people.

I remember the review that started the controversy, and was appalled. Jennifer Ringer was always lovely in her response. At the same time this essay gave me a lot to think about.

For the record, I've know make dancers and ice skaters with eating disorders. There is a higher incidence for women no doubt, but it afflicts men too.

[Helene]

12 minutes ago, On Pointe said:

I still don't get why Martins was wrong for casting Ringer,  unless you feel that her idiosyncratic method of getting into shape for the season should have been accomodated.  Presumably she was paid from the first day of the season,  so why not expect her to be ready?

He promoted her up the ranks despite not being ready at the very beginning of the season.   Artistic Directors make accommodations regularly, if they think the talent is there.

The Artistic Director's job is to give the audience the best possible show.  Sometimes, like by the middle of every Spring season I attended over a couple of decades when I lived in NYC, the Company was so decimated by injuries and illnesses that cascading substitutions were the best that the AD could present.  Opening Night, not so much, unless almost the entire Company was out with food poisoning, and the outcome was pretty predictable.  

I do remember from Merrill Ashley's book that she and her boyfriend-turned-husband used to go to Hawaii for vacation.  She stayed in good-enough shape by giving herself barre and taking long ocean swims, and then she was is ready shape when rehearsals began.  Except for one year, when she scraped her feet on coral and could wear shoes.  That was the year she was promoted, and Balanchine started everyone with hops on pointe, because he was choreographing Ballo della Regina for her.

[BalanchineFan]

What I got from the Martins story is that he could have protected the lead dancers from the critics, and had other casting options as it was the start of the season, but he chose not to protect the dancers. For his reasons, I suppose you’d have to ask him. To me, the result seems mean spirited and punitive. Completely in keeping with the behavior Georgina Pazcoquin describes in the Midsummer Nights Dream rehearsal. But there’s no way to know if he knew what the result would be. 

Edited October 20, 2021 by BalanchineFan

[Balletwannabe]

I have an eating disorder.  I've been to a treatment center.  You could never guess by looking at someone who has an eating disorder (gender, weight, job).  It's a debilitating mental illness.

Edited October 19, 2021 by Balletwannabe

[BalanchineFan]

It was hard for me to get through Alistair's new piece. It was like reading Thomas Jefferson defending slavery and harping about how hard his life was when it was discovered he got Sally Hemmings pregnant those 6 times. When Alistair started mentioning the women he knew who were fat or anorexic... I just had to stop. It's not about him. His voice is not what has been missing from the conversation. He really doesn't understand.

Sorry to hear you have an eating disorder @Balletwannabe and sorry for anyone else dealing with those issues. Some day I may write about my own journey with weight and eating. Do you ever write about it? Does that help?

 

[Balletwannabe]

12 minutes ago, BalanchineFan said:

It was hard for me to get through Alistair's new piece. It was like reading Thomas Jefferson defending slavery and harping about how hard his life was when it was discovered he got Sally Hemmings pregnant those 6 times. When Alistair started mentioning the women he knew who were fat or anorexic... I just had to stop. It's not about him. His voice is not what has been missing from the conversation. He really doesn't understand.

Sorry to hear you have an eating disorder @Balletwannabe and sorry for anyone else dealing with those issues. Some day I may write about my own journey with weight and eating. Do you ever write about it? Does that help?

 

Thank you for your kind comments- I write when I get overwhelming thoughts.  I'm not sure if it helps at this point, but I've been told by so many people (with various struggles) that's journaling helps, so I'm trying it.  

Edited October 19, 2021 by Balletwannabe

[Quiggin]

14 hours ago, BalanchineFan said:

I just had to stop. It's not about him. His voice is not what has been missing from the conversation. He really doesn't understand.

I read the whole thing and have highlighted some of it below. I think he makes the whole matter worse. Macaulay should simply say he was trying to be witty in a way that no longer has much standing and that he's learned to move on.

Quote

I learnt my critical style from such exemplars as Clement Crisp, Arlene Croce, and Pauline Kael, all of whom were in their prime when I began in 1978. Crisp: “Béjart and Stravinsky is one of those fabled partnerships, like Romeo and Goneril, or bacon and strawberries.” Croce: “On a grim evening in Stockholm you can throw yourself in a canal or go to the Royal Swedish Ballet.” My own use of sarcasm has varied in quantity more than a few times over the years: I remember paring it away in the early 1990s only to find it burst out not long afterwards...

There have been also several times when I’ve written a review with the deliberate intention of causing a furor. A critic is useful when she or he provokes debate ...

I ... meant merely that her weight looked a single sugar plum beyond some ideal. How big is one sugar plum? 

As it happens, I’m not keen on the super-thin kind of ballerina; it’s well known that, when I came to ballet in the 1970s, I was wild about Lynn Seymour, whose weight was surely greater than Ringer’s. Nonetheless my “one sugar plum too many” words have led many to assume I’m on the side of anorexia. I’m not, but that’s how many now will always see me. 

As it happens, my close friends included some women who’ve had anorexia and other women who’ve tried to deal with obesity, in some cases consulting doctors. I’m sure I often said the wrong thing, but, in the case of one anorexic friend, over thirty years ago, I visited the doctor we both shared to ask advice on what I should or should not say to help matters if I could. It’s a long story, but that friend recovered from anorexia, and our friendship grew closer. As for obesity, I shared a house for five years with one large lady who ran a group of other women addressing the weight issue; I often opened the door or answered the phone to other women who were dealing with the problem. 

I’m aware that some male dancers suffer from weight problems and eating disorders too. Nonetheless, ... To be specific, I’ve criticized Mark Morris’s weight in both 1992 (in The New Yorker) and 2001 (in the Times Literary Supplement), on one occasion using the word “obese”. In the New York Times, I singled out New York City Ballet’s Nilas Martins (son of Peter) as “portly”. 

For many readers, it’s clear that there are rights and wrongs in this story. But are there? Nobody has ever complained that I had written that Nilas Martins was “portly”. Nobody has been outraged retrospectively that one Russian critic in 1892 described the original Sugarplum fairy as “pudgy”. While I remained at the New York Times ... several readers would write to me when they wanted me to criticize a dancer’s weight. Others told me to do so in person, though under their breaths.

 

Edited October 19, 2021 by Quiggin

[vipa]

In my view the essay was about way more than the Nutcracker review, or the reviews of other critics. The heart of the matter is the art form, and the way we "value" some bodies over others. I don't think there is a way around that. The question then becomes, what is the appropriate way to criticize a dancer? I've heard people say Lovette wasn't enjoyable in the After the Rain pas because she is small, and to do justice to the choreography a longer limbed dancer is needed. I have argued with friends about Daniel Ulbricht who I believe has always been underutilized. I have friends that say his thighs are too thick, and his lines not suitable for many roles. Before Megan Fairchild's Broadway run, Alistair was relentlessly critical of her. Was that all right because he never had reason to mention her weight? Is it allowable to be critical of neck length, flexibility of feet, height of extensions etc. but not allowable to criticize a woman's weight, or the thickness of her thighs or waist? (I'm not saying it should be). When we think about diversity of body types in ballet, how much diversity are we willing to tolerate? I for one think it's complicated, and the article left me asking myself a lot of questions.

[nanushka]

I agree, @vipa. As annoying as I often find Macaulay, and as clueless and self-serving as the piece was at times, I think it did raise some good questions — ones that I've found myself thinking about in the past and ones that could be further considered by critics and critical viewers.

[BalanchineFan]

I'm glad to hear that some have found the article has given them food for thought. For me, the context of talking about dancers' weight should include a few facts:

1. The School of American Ballet, where all the women (and most men) at NYCB get their start, is incredibly exclusive. Young dancers are chosen for their body types; smaller body types, smaller frames, and long thin limbs being preferred whatever the dancer's height, along with turn out, arched feet and musicality. Roughly 2,000 students apply each year and only 200 are chosen for the summer session. 100 for the winter session. That's a rejection rate of 90-95%. We're talking about criticizing people who made that cut, that 5%, and then the subsequent yearly cuts, and then also managed to have careers in ballet. We're not discussing a widely attainable physical standard.

2. Disordered eating abounds in order to achieve this "aesthetic." You can like "the look," not like it, think one dancer is too skinny and another too fat, but a very high percentage of these people are doing extreme and unhealthy things (at least at times) to attain "the look."  It comes up in interviews all the time. One wanted to get pregnant, but realized she needed 6 weeks of eating disorder treatment in a facility before she could try. Another's hair started to fall out. Another didn't eat enough to make it through rehearsal. Maria Tallchief describes how she, and later Tanaquil LeClerq, would go out to dinner with Balanchine and he would bring an apple, since his wife wasn't going to eat dinner.  (Yes, perhaps the meal was post-performance and the woman had already eaten something... but Tallchief writes it was common practice, and something she didn't miss when she stopped being Mrs. Balanchine.)  Was it Suzanne Farrell who wrote she ate just the foam from a cappucino? These women were gorgeous, fantastic, legendary ballerinas, but those are not healthy eating habits!

3. Women's size, shape, and condition is often criticized by men to exert control over women. It's a part of our society, from corsets, girdles, brassieres, panty hose and bikinis to indecency laws (historically, only women seem to get arrested for swimwear), the fight for birth control, gynecology, (including gynecologists that wash their hands), and reproductive freedoms. Men have a long history of telling women how to look, how to dress and what women can and cannot do with their bodies. 

That is my context. 
I don't think it's right and I don't think bullying about weight has any place in offhand remarks in a ballet review, "sarcastic" or not. Are patrons going to exchange their Nutcracker tickets when they read that someone in the audience found the lead dancers “fat?”  I don’t think so, and I don’t see any value in the information.  I'm not interested in reading it, no matter what any audience member or critic might say at the time. 
 

[Balletwannabe]

There's "disordered eating" and then there's "eating disorders"... It's hard to distinguish the two in the ballet world!  You're either predisposed to an eating disorder (genetically), or you're not.  I bet the vast majority of ballet dancers are engaging in "disordered eating", but once they realize how unhealthy it is, and if they choose to, they can change their habits.  Someone with a true eating disorder has a mental illness, and it's nearly impossible to treat it without a treatment team (doctors, nutritionists, phycologists), because it's not a choice to have one.  I worry so much about the ballet dancers that have the mental illness, because just one comment can trigger you right back into your illness (I was well along with my recovery and recently relapsed, ed's are sneaky...relapse it very common).  It's a tricky business.. because obviously their bodies are a part of their jobs.   But compassion goes a long ways!  I remember a comment on here a few months ago about how someone wished the dancer would "eat an avocado".  ANY comment about food, good or bad, actually makes eating disorders worse.  I cringe at comments like those!  Anyways... interesting subject for me because I'm in that world of Ed's.  It's not a club you want to be a part of.  

[Helene]

2 hours ago, BalanchineFan said:

but a very high percentage of these people are doing extreme and unhealthy things (at least at times) to attain "the look.

This may be the case, and it wouldn't surprised me if it were true, but interviews with a select group of people plus dancers willing to go on the record in social media, blogs, etc. are not a journalistic investigation or scientific study or proof that this statement applies to a "very high percentage" of dancers.  Part of the very small funnel self-selects for people who either have the specific body type naturally -- in Russia, the schools look at families when they choose children for their elite schools, believing that their adult parents are indicators of future physique, and that is a significant factor in determining in which children they will make a significant, long-term investment -- or who can do what they need to sustain it over a very long time, at least half of their lives by the time they reach 30.  I cannot for the life of me remember the name of it or find this in searches, but there was a book on School of American Ballet -- maybe 30 years ago? -- that documented the damage along the way how many student bodies were damaged and left aside on the way to a professional career, similar to the book "Pretty Girls in Little Boxes" about figure skaters and gymnasts.  

I'm not sure if it were proven that 85% (to take a stab at a very higher percentage) of professional dancers have eating disorders or disordered eating that this would give pause to aspiring dancers/students, as long as that look is demanded by the people doing the hiring.

It's not a look I prize.

[canbelto]

In addition to negative comments being triggering, I'll say from experience that positive comments could also be triggering. For instance, I've had times in my life when I was subsisting on almost no food, and all I got were compliments for how "great" I looked. All that told me was that starving myself was a prerequisite to "looking great."

[Balletwannabe]

11 minutes ago, canbelto said:

In addition to negative comments being triggering, I'll say from experience that positive comments could also be triggering. For instance, I've had times in my life when I was subsisting on almost no food, and all I got were compliments for how "great" I looked. All that told me was that starving myself was a prerequisite to "looking great."

Very true.  

[volcanohunter]

29 minutes ago, Helene said:

in Russia, the schools look at families when they choose children for their elite schools, believing that their adult parents are indicators of future physique

Not just in Russia. This is part of the audition process for Canada's National Ballet School also.

[Kathleen O'Connell]

3 hours ago, BalanchineFan said:

I don't think it's right and I don't think bullying about weight has any place in offhand remarks in a ballet review, "sarcastic" or not. Are patrons going to exchange their Nutcracker tickets when they read that someone in the audience found the lead dancers “fat?”  I don’t think so, and I don’t see any value in the information.

Yes, exactly. Who is the audience for comments about a dancer's weight? It's not as if the dancers aren't themselves acutely aware of what their bodies look like. "Huh. I had no idea I look fat!" said no ballerina ever after reading a review that commented on her weight. Ditto the AD; if they think the dancer looks fine and values their artistry, I sure as heck hope they have the confidence in their judgment to brush aside someone carping about a dancer's weight. 

As for the audience: well, I think we can be led to let our taste regarding body type evolve. When Sara Mearns first came to prominence, there was some grumbling among the critics regarding her weight / body type. Today she can lay claim to being one of the company's brightest stars: I'd say the audience cast a pretty deciding vote about what they value in a ballerina, and it's not whether she's five pounds on the other side of an impossible ideal.

An aside: For related reasons I have always been irked by how often Maria Kowroski's dancing was reduced to the beauty of her legs. 

[canbelto]

One thing I've always been irked about is how the term "ballet body" is used to describe a certain type of extremely thin, leggy dancer. For instance, Maria Kowroski is a perfect example -- I heard over and over again how she had the best "ballet body" because of her legs and feet. But she herself has said many times that her super-long legs, arched feet, and flexible back made her prone to injuries. So "ballet body" is being used just to describe a certain aesthetic.