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Mr and Ms? How does your local ballet company refer to its dancers?


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33 replies to this topic

#16 dirac

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 08:42 PM

There's a huge Cuban population down here, for which the practice of a woman adopting the husband's last name is completely alien. In Cuba a person can not change his/her last name.


I didn't know that - very interesting. Yes, over here such a name change is usually connected to marriage and the decision to change is generally an issue for the woman only - in some instances the man will change his name also, but that's rare. I don't think as a rule there's much confusion between the much softer sibilant of "Miss" and "Ms." (which usually sounds like Miz). "Miss" is certainly a prettier sound.


do they have to introduce "Mr. Frola"? In this case, because he goes by Gabriele rather than Francesco, it would be all the more useful to call him by his preferred name.



I wonder if it's really essential for the public to know which name he goes by in private life, if he chooses to use both professionally? It's not really something the publicity department has to tip people off about, and the information would likely surface in interviews.

#17 Helene

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 09:08 PM

do they have to introduce "Mr. Frola"? In this case, because he goes by Gabriele rather than Francesco, it would be all the more useful to call him by his preferred name.

They're using press release terminology, and probably a modification of the actual press release or website news for their Facebook post.

There's a huge Cuban population down here, for which the practice of a woman adopting the husband's last name is completely alien. In Cuba a person can not change his/her last name. One dies with the same last name one is born with.

The same is true in Quebec. Socially, women can call themselves anything they want, but as far as the government is concerned, it's a cradle-to-grave name, except in very rare circumstances.

#18 sandik

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 08:59 PM

do they have to introduce "Mr. Frola"? In this case, because he goes by Gabriele rather than Francesco, it would be all the more useful to call him by his preferred name.


It's not just about what name the artist prefers for themselves, but that there is some kind of standard usage. Or else we'll get a press release or a program item that talks about Mr. Smith, Jane Roe, and Sparky (who is actually some third person who really likes her nickname...)

#19 ksk04

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 04:12 PM

But then, when not in writing, but orally...doesn't "Ms." sound more or less like "Miss"..?


For Ms. you say say "Mizzz," while Miss gets the sharper "s" (as in snake) sound.


At the college where I currently teach, the students of one of my classes insist upon calling me "Miss"--no last name. I keep fighting back the urge to tell them that I am neither a waitress nor a stranger on the street that they are trying to flag down.

#20 Helene

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 04:15 PM

"Ms." ends with a buzzzzz and "Miss" ends with a hisssssss.

#21 diane

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 03:13 AM

Just a perspective from Germany here: Dancers are generally referred to by their full names, and then, if in a review, after having been named, and in further discussion, perhaps just by "he", "she" or the surnmane. First names are not generally used in such instances, neither is Mr., Mrs., or Ms. (Herr, Frau, Fräulein, the latter which is qutie antique! Posted Image )

As for myself, my students generally call me by my first name (school policy), but I also answer to "Chief" or "Boss". ;)

-d-

#22 dirac

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 10:25 PM


But then, when not in writing, but orally...doesn't "Ms." sound more or less like "Miss"..?


For Ms. you say say "Mizzz," while Miss gets the sharper "s" (as in snake) sound.


At the college where I currently teach, the students of one of my classes insist upon calling me "Miss"--no last name. I keep fighting back the urge to tell them that I am neither a waitress nor a stranger on the street that they are trying to flag down.


Why fight it? :) I guess it's better than, "Hey, teach!"

#23 dirac

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 06:43 PM

Why fight the urge, I intended to say.....

#24 Nanarina

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 06:09 AM

Actually the term MS rfefers to a woman that has been married, but no longer is. Who do not wish to be called Miss or Mrs. In Paris when you contact the Opera booking center they always say "misses" to a woman. It irritates me a little as on my details they hold for me, it states Ms. Last time I telephoned I explained the different terms to the operator who was very grateful.

#25 kbarber

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 06:24 AM

Actually the term MS rfefers to a woman that has been married, but no longer is. Who do not wish to be called Miss or Mrs.

That's not true, Nanarina. Ms. is a title used by women of any marital status. In French (certainly in Quebec French) the default term of address for women is Madame (someone tried "Madelle" as a Ms-equivalent but it never took off), which means that many francophones default to "Mrs" in English.

#26 Helene

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 07:48 AM

In many cultures, the usage of the equivalent of "Mrs." is age-based rather than marital status-based, even if the underlying assumption is that all women who are of a particular age must be married. I am always addressed as Madame in France, not Mademoiselle and Frau in Germany, not Fräulein, or if addressed with an English title, Mrs.

#27 Nanarina

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 07:54 AM

I personaly use the term "Ms" as I was once married, and do not want to be addressed as Miss or Mrs. In general most women in the same catagory as myself, use Ms, for the same reason. Just a thought of "Mrs" in other countries, how can they tell your age on the telephone, unless of course they know your date of birth?

#28 cubanmiamiboy

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 08:12 AM

. Just a thought of "Mrs" in other countries, how can they tell your age on the telephone, unless of course they know your date of birth?


Well...you can always take a wild guess. The voice ages too I guess, and it usually shows...
One way I find easy in my workplace while dealing with female doctors of all ages, is by addressing them as Dr. so and so,hence eliminating the confusion of the Miss/Mrs...

#29 Moonlily

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 02:11 PM


. Just a thought of "Mrs" in other countries, how can they tell your age on the telephone, unless of course they know your date of birth?


Well...you can always take a wild guess. The voice ages too I guess, and it usually shows...


In some countries where the equivalent to the English 'Mrs' has become the default, it is applied for women of any age. At least in Germany, 'Fräulein' for unmarried women is nowadays only used very, very rarely. It has a rather antiquated connotation. Regardless of age or marital status, women are generally addressed with 'Frau'. In articles, it is usually just the last name without any title, as diane has already mentioned. Girls in their early to mid-teens are on the other hand addressed with 'young woman' as soon as they are at an age where they can't be considered little children anymore.

#30 dirac

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 02:21 PM


Actually the term MS rfefers to a woman that has been married, but no longer is. Who do not wish to be called Miss or Mrs.

That's not true, Nanarina. Ms. is a title used by women of any marital status. In French (certainly in Quebec French) the default term of address for women is Madame (someone tried "Madelle" as a Ms-equivalent but it never took off), which means that many francophones default to "Mrs" in English.


Nanarina is right as well, she's just a little out of date. There was a time when Ms. referred only to divorced women (and a divorcee was not a good thing to be). You could also tell a woman was divorced because she was called, say, Mrs. Ann Jones - a wife was referred to Mrs. Richard Jones.

Years ago I was reading hard copies of some old Washington Posts from the early sixties and was weirded out when the social pages referred to a gathering of wives of Kennedy Administration officials as "Mrs. Robert McNamara... Mrs. Robert Kennedy.... Mrs. Dean Rusk..." their identities totally subsumed, symbolically, into their husbands'. Very strange to the modern eye but again, not that long ago.


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