Young Kids & Mature Choreography

[Jayne]

well, this hit the internet yesterday like a cyclone, thought I'd link to get your opinions...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wjehii-jjHE...player_embedded

Apparently the dancers are ages 7-9 and this type of choreo is now common on the dance competition circuit.

Personally I don't think of myself as a prude, I'm all about free speech, self expression, etc. But I really cannot find any redeeming value in teaching 7-9 year old girls to shake their money makers like they are on poles.

These young ladies are so talented, and there are so many types of choreo that would highlight that talent without sexualizing them to the Nth degree. I just wonder what they will learn to dance to by the time they are 13? Will they think this type of hyper sexualized choreo is the "normal" way girls dance? The "normal" way to get attention from people?

Beyonce's choreographer created his "Single Ladies" dance as a direct homage to Bob Fosse. In turn, Bob Fosse was inspired by his childhood observing women dance inside houses of ill repute. Will little girls soon do the choreo from "Cabaret" to top this?

I'm disturbed that the few commentators who defend this dance in the comments below the video claim that "everybody's doing it" at dance competitions. Just because it has been normalized within the dance competition world does not make it acceptable. Anyone remember the stage scene from "Little Miss Sunshine"?

I have to wonder what this dance routine prepares the girls to do next? I don't think it prepares them for professional dance careers in ballet, broadway, or modern. Maybe dancing at Scores, or the occasional video vixen.

ok, jumping down from my soap box now...

[Mel Johnson]

You're not going to find any fight from me on this topic. I hate it too!

[perky]

well, this hit the internet yesterday like a cyclone, thought I'd link to get your opinions...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wjehii-jjHE...player_embedded

Apparently the dancers are ages 7-9 and this type of choreo is now common on the dance competition circuit.

ok, jumping down from my soap box now...

Oh don't jump down yet and save a seat up there for me!

This isn't dance to me. It's writhing and humping (hope that doesn't sound too harsh) with a few ta-da! tricks thrown in every few beats. It's bad taste show dancing of the lowest common denominator. Add having kids dance it and it also makes it disgusting and vile.

I actually like Beyonce and that particular video so I'm not a prude.

[leonid17]

well, this hit the internet yesterday like a cyclone, thought I'd link to get your opinions...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wjehii-jjHE...player_embedded

Apparently the dancers are ages 7-9 and this type of choreo is now common on the dance competition circuit.

ok, jumping down from my soap box now...

Oh don't jump down yet and save a seat up there for me!

This isn't dance to me. It's writhing and humping (hope that doesn't sound too harsh) with a few ta-da! tricks thrown in every few beats. It's bad taste show dancing of the lowest common denominator. Add having kids dance it and it also makes it disgusting and vile.

I actually like Beyonce and that particular video so I'm not a prude.

I hope like me you hit the flag, but I notice complaints have been posted and it is still there.

[dirac]

Thanks for posting, Jayne. I don't think there will be a wide range of opinions on this topic. The girls are fabulous and the costumes and moves are completely out of line. I wouldn't describe this as "mature" choreography - there are some kinds of "mature" choreography that would be okay for kids to try - but as sexually suggestive choreography and costuming, which is not appropriate.

[papeetepatrick]

I expected to be as offended as the rest of you, but really hated only the costumes, which were a new level of ugliness. I just thought the kids were cute and looked as though they were really enjoying it, having fun even though it was just trash. I don't see any long-term dangers here, and it is true that pop culture is all hypersexual by now.

[cubanmiamiboy]

Everytime I see a GIRL playing a sexed up role only one name come up in my mind... JonBenet Ramsey.

[dirac]

I don't entirely disagree with you, papeetepatrick. You are right in that there is unlikely to be any long term harm to the girls and they were probably just getting a big kick out of it. But that doesn't mean it's right or appropriate or that the adults involved shouldn't know better. You have to draw that line somewhere. Although in a way it's no creepier than those old tapes of JonBenet Ramsey.

[dirac]

cubanmiamiboy, we were posting at the same time, so I didn't see your reference to JonBenet. Great minds think alike, obviously.

[atm711]

Everytime I see a GIRL playing a sexed up role only one name come up in my mind... JonBenet Ramsey.

Yes, it's JonBenet taken one step further....

[leonid17]

I am a little surprised at the rather tame response to this clip.

I think many in the UK might see it as a step towards the sexualisation of very young minors.

Edited

[Hans]

It appears that the clip has been removed due to a copyright claim, or so Youtube says. I did see it before it was taken down, and I found it disturbing. What sort of dance teacher thinks that sort of "performance" is appropriate for 7-9 year olds?

[perky]

My problem with "responsible" adults sexualizing kids is that the next logical step for these girls is to sexualize themselves.

When you're a 7 or 8 year old girl it's perfectly natural to explore your own body, however these people are almost encouraging these kids to EXPLOIT their pre-pubescent bodies. It's sick.

[papeetepatrick]

I don't entirely disagree with you, papeetepatrick. You are right in that there is unlikely to be any long term harm to the girls and they were probably just getting a big kick out of it. But that doesn't mean it's right or appropriate or that the adults involved shouldn't know better. You have to draw that line somewhere. Although in a way it's no creepier than those old tapes of JonBenet Ramsey.

I agree, but she was even younger, wasn't she? Maybe not, I thought she was more like 5 or 6, but that's been a good while.

[dirac]

Yes, JonBenet was even younger, six years old when she died.

[Mme. Hermine]

The posting that everyone seemed to be looking at was probably a copy from another one.

[ami1436]

This has hit the ceiling today, which is part of the reason I think the video was taken down. Anderson Cooper discussed it on CNN, and I think he said the girls were 6-8. The parents of some of the girls were apparently on some of the morning talk shows here, and from what I've seen reported in the press their accounts revolved around 'this was a competition', 'it's what everyone does' and 'it was not intended for a wider audience'.

To me, there are two questions -- whether or not this type of overt sexualization at a young age affects the individual (question 1)? Secondly, what does our acceptance/or not of it say about our societal views? I don't know. I feel that young females, more so than young males, are sexualized at younger and younger ages these days, placed into a world where looks, bodies, and even pink (!) become all-important. It's not impossible to choreography a dance that involves the tricks/strengths of these young dancers, their performance ability, and is simultaneously more age-appropriate? Or, and connected to the second question, are we impressed by the 'prodigy' factor, of young girls dancing as if they were older/mature? Wows.

[papeetepatrick]

One thing that renders it somewhat benign to me, as opposed to Jon-Benet Ramsey, is that it's a big GROUP of kids, and they even probably think of themselves as being 'hot little numbers acting naughty', but they at least are not being exploited as some 'perfect little princess/goddess' all by herself the way Jon-Benet was. That is one of the saddest cases I know of, and it's still not really clear; maybe the worst thing is that there's that single clip, and her murder almost doesn't seem to come across as much as does the case that followed it. The parents, I'm still not at all clear whether they were guilty or not, always seemed far less grief-stricken than they were concerned about themselves. This may sound strange, but it's as though the whole matter had very little to do with the little victim herself, I could never get a grasp of who she was, who she had been; she has always come across to me as a kind of phantom, as though she only really ever existed in that clip. These girls probably ought not to be doing this, but I was just remembering an idiot male cousin of mine, who was about as masculine as you could get most of the time (pecan fights and rock fights mostly), who used to put on his sister's skirt and imitate her in her dance concert singing 'I'm a Flirt'. Lord know, nothing would damage him till he got into drug trouble, and he did. I don't know, these girls seemed so healthy to me, and since it was a BUNCH of parents involved, that doesn't seem quite as creepy and scary as that insular nightmare of the Ramseys.

[dirac]

I read a couple of the news reports where the girls were reported to be from 7 to 9.

I suspect that if the costumes were pastels or whites instead of red and black, and/or didn't reveal the midriff, there might be less fuss. Some of those moves wouldn't be out of place performed by girls roughly in the same age group at cheer competitions. There does seem to be some sort of national freakout going on over this and I begin to think it's a bit much, but that's the Internet and cable news for you.

Which is not to dismiss ami1436's larger points. I doubt that in this instance the girls will be "harmed" in any way unless there is some damage done by the fallout from this video. The beauty pageant culture from whence sprang JonBenet has been with us for a long, long time.

[ami1436]

dirac, I'm with you, and I've been thinking about this more. I know I was one who would dance around the house and what not, sometimes mimicking pop stars (which seemed so much more tame back in the day -- but that might be my own nostalgia!). But I'm still concerned about the gendered norms of sexualizing young women, especially as someone who often teaches college freshmen and served as an RA for undergraduate dorms for a while in grad school.... To me, I can see certain trends spanning age ranges -- where it's the females who get dolled up/sexed up and the guys get to play with trucks and computer games. Okay, that's a simplification, but let's turn the tables -- what if these were 5 young boys, dancing similarly sexual moves, dressed in provocative ways? (Although I'm not sure what provocative would be for boys of that age?) Would folks be as accepting, would they find it weird? Would they be more worried about pedophiles? I don't know the answers at all, nor have I thought my way through my own responses, but I think these larger questions are perhaps more enlightening -- and maybe productive -- than all the focus on one dance, as dirac noted.

[cubanmiamiboy]

Okay, that's a simplification, but let's turn the tables -- what if these were 5 young boys, dancing similarly sexual moves, dressed in provocative ways? (Although I'm not sure what provocative would be for boys of that age?) Would folks be as accepting, would they find it weird?

A similar scenario has been out there for a while concerning the opposite sex. It gets even more disturbing...

[papeetepatrick]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPoFq4Ljy4g...feature=related

Here's Little Hercules at 15, he looks fine to me. I think that more than anything else, this stuff reminds me of sports coaching of young athletes, to the detriment of the rest of their development. Those extremely disciplined regimens of gymnasts, etc., seem pretty hard to take. I'd think a parallel to the girls raunchy dance would be pre-pubescent boys doing some bumping and grinding too, not so much bodybuilding. Although this little child bodybuilder is not like anything I've seen.

[dirac]

dirac, I'm with you, and I've been thinking about this more. I know I was one who would dance around the house and what not, sometimes mimicking pop stars (which seemed so much more tame back in the day -- but that might be my own nostalgia!).

The mainstreaming of activities like pole dancing and other tropes of pornography into pop culture and other areas of contemporary life may play a role here.

You make an interesting point about reversing the sex roles. It is certainly hard to imagine a group of young boys in short shorts and mesh tops doing pelvic thrusts while everyone applauds, but then when we do encourage boys to dance it's to show off their athleticism and energy, not necessarily their bodies.

[cubanmiamiboy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPoFq4Ljy4g...feature=related

Here's Little Hercules at 15, he looks fine to me. I think that more than anything else, this stuff reminds me of sports coaching of young athletes, to the detriment of the rest of their development. Those extremely disciplined regimens of gymnasts, etc., seem pretty hard to take. I'd think a parallel to the girls raunchy dance would be pre-pubescent boys doing some bumping and grinding too, not so much bodybuilding. Although this little child bodybuilder is not like anything I've seen.

True, Patrick...On the other side, let's not forget one of the main-(if not THE # 1)-factor in the whole bodybuilding circuit...the showing off element. The whole thing, from the music selected, to the outfits, to the oiled up body, to the fake tanning, to the provocative posing and smiles...to absolutely EVERYTHING constitutes an ode-(even a worship)-to the masculinity, the manliness, the fact of wanting to be perfectly developed AND desired EVEN in a sexual way...

The thing is...does a 5 year old boy needs to be exposed in such way...? I mean...if the PARENTS want him to be a bodybuilder at such age-(let's pretend that the boy wasn't the one with the original idea)-isn't it better to keep it out of the public media until he can decide if is ok to be exposed like that...? (around 13 or 14, taking a wild guess...)

[papeetepatrick]

Yes, of course, but there are 'stage mamas and daddies' of all kinds, who can stop them? Mamma Rose sent two kids to stardom, and one of 'em for strippin'...I've never been sure whether Mamma Rose was an unfit mother or not . Sure, there's lots of showing off, and I'd bet there are already some little boy dancers like the girls, not in shorts so much, but maybe doing little Elvis imitations, etc., but I just don't think I have the energy to Google for that...