canbelto Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 I am leaving town for the next week or so, and I won't have access to Turner Classic Movies. It just so happens that they are showing 4 movies that I really want to see and record -- Kiss Me Kate, Rules of the Game, Grand Illusion, and Remains of the Day. I have only seen Remains, but the other three have been highly recommended. So ... given that I can only record one or at most two of the movies, which ones would you all choose? Dirac??? Link to comment
Helene Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 I heartily disliked Remains of the Day, and liked the book very much, so I'm not really objective, but Rules of the Game is one of my favorite movies, so that's where my vote goes. Which version of Kiss Me Kate? Link to comment
dirac Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 I’m sure canbelto means the MGM Kiss Me, Kate starring Ann Miller, Howard Keel, Kathryn Grayson, et al. I’d skip Kiss Me, Kate and Remains of the Day since you’ve already seen it. It wouldn’t hurt to check KMK out eventually. Although it’s not very good as a whole, it has some fine dancing and a great score. Rules of the Game and Grand Illusion, as I’m sure you’ve heard, are two deathless Jean Renoir classics and you should try to see both of them. Although Rules of the Game is better overall by common consent and IMO, it might be nice to start with Grand Illusion, the earlier of the two, and then ROTG later on. The pace of Grand Illusion is a little pokey to start with, but it picks up in intensity, and there are four great stars in it – von Stroheim, Pierre Fresnay, Jean Gabin, and Marcel Dalio. Link to comment
canbelto Posted June 6, 2006 Author Share Posted June 6, 2006 I saw Remains of the Day -- but only parts of it. Namely, the second half. I like Thompson and Hopkins a lot, but I would like to see the first half of it. That movie polarized a lot of people. I know people who think it's the greatest film ever, and people who thought it pretentious, stuffy, boring, and an insult to the novel. I've never read the novel. I'm also curious about Kiss Me Kate because I love the Cole Porter songs, but have never seen the film. I did see the staged version on PBS a few years ago. But I will trust your judgements and choose Rules of the Game and Grand Illusion Link to comment
dirac Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 I saw Remains of the Day -- but only parts of it. Namely, the second half. I like Thompson and Hopkins a lot, but I would like to see the first half of it. That movie polarized a lot of people. I know people who think it's the greatest film ever, and people who thought it pretentious, stuffy, boring, and an insult to the novel. I've never read the novel. I'm also curious about Kiss Me Kate because I love the Cole Porter songs, but have never seen the film. I did see the staged version on PBS a few years ago. But I will trust your judgements and choose Rules of the Game and Grand Illusion All of the movies you listed are worth seeing in one respect or another, but you know, they'll all get shown again on one channel or another eventually, even the French movies. It's the great thing about cable. Link to comment
Anthony_NYC Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 I agree with the consensus about the Renoir films (I wouldn't know how to choose between them, they're both so great), but do want to put in a good word for KMK. True, it's even better on stage, but the movie is just so colorful and tuneful and fun, with terrific performances all around, it'll put you in a happy mood no matter what. Since you saw the recent Broadway production on TV, you might find it interesting to compare the two versions; the changes are significant. In one respect MGM betters the original, by giving "From This Moment On" the treatment it deserves. Count me among those who found the movie of "Remains of the Day" a bit of a bore. The book is beautifully done and so much more touching, with a more compelling protagonist. By the way, anyone else find it hard to watch Stroheim in "Grande Illusion" nowadays without thinking of Dr. Evil in the Austin Powers movies? Link to comment
AG Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 I'll chime in with those who recommended the Renoir films, especially Rules of the Game--it's one of my all-time favorites, too. Good luck (hope your VCR doesn't let you down after all this!), and we look forward to your review upon your return! Link to comment
dirac Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 I agree with the consensus about the Renoir films (I wouldn't know how to choose between them, they're both so great), but do want to put in a good word for KMK. True, it's even better on stage, but the movie is just so colorful and tuneful and fun, with terrific performances all around, it'll put you in a happy mood no matter what. Since you saw the recent Broadway production on TV, you might find it interesting to compare the two versions; the changes are significant. In one respect MGM betters the original, by giving "From This Moment On" the treatment it deserves.Count me among those who found the movie of "Remains of the Day" a bit of a bore. The book is beautifully done and so much more touching, with a more compelling protagonist. By the way, anyone else find it hard to watch Stroheim in "Grande Illusion" nowadays without thinking of Dr. Evil in the Austin Powers movies? Must differ slightly. I adore Howard Keel, rampant in tights, but Kathryn Grayson is awful. The acting was wonderful in ROTD -- Hopkins, Thompson, and especially Peter Vaughan as Hopkins' father. I thought von Stroheim was fine in Grand Illusion -- maybe the neck brace was a bit much, but it's a pleasure to see him playing off Pierre Fresnay, two gentlemen of the old world. Thank you for chiming in, AG. Keep the posts coming! Link to comment
canbelto Posted June 7, 2006 Author Share Posted June 7, 2006 Ok, with the right recording modes I think I can record two movies. I've already decided one will be Rules of the Game, as everyone seems to think that's the can't miss. I trust y'all's judgement. So ... between Grand Illusion, KMK, and ROTD (of which I've only seen half) which would you choose? Link to comment
dirac Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 The more movies you try to squeeze on to the tape, the poorer the visual quality, so I'd tape only one to start with, and then maybe the bits of Remains of the Day you haven't seen. Link to comment
canbelto Posted June 7, 2006 Author Share Posted June 7, 2006 La Strada is on tonight. I'm ashamed to admit I've never seen much Fellini. Is it worth watching? Link to comment
dirac Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 The simple answer is yes. At the time it came out it won every possible award and was a huge international success. There was a backlash later, and it’s not perfect, but it’s a lovely movie. Opinion remains divided about Giulietta Masina, but the performance was and is greatly admired. Of couse, I’m biased. I once named my two bunnies Zampanó and Gelsomina. In general, if a movie has a reputation as a classic, it’s worth seeing, although it may or may not live up to its billing with the passage of time and you may not agree with the assessment. Link to comment
Farrell Fan Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 Opinion remains divided about Giulietta Masina, but the performance was and is greatly admired. You mean there are some idiots who don't appreciate La Masina? Sorry, couldn't resist. I've found that people who know only the later Fellini profess disappointment on seeing "La Strada." I've always loved it. Link to comment
dirac Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 I assure you I'm not one of the, uh, idiots. But I did take a very clever fellow to see it years ago and she drove him up the wall, and I've read a critic or two who reacted similarly. I have a hunch that it's really Richard Basehart's movie, though. Link to comment
canbelto Posted June 8, 2006 Author Share Posted June 8, 2006 Well I saw it last night, and I guess I'm one of the, uh, idiots. Well I'm not a total idiot, but if there's a way to take pathos to a campy bathetic level, I think Masina did it. The movie reminds me more of a puppet play (a la Petrushka) and I admit it felt affected. I wasn't as moved as I thought I'd be. But since this has turned into a general movie thread, I'll remind movie buffs that Criterion has released 400 Blows. Now that is a movie that I think deserves all the accolades it gets. Jules et Jim is more well-known, but 400 Blows to me is the real masterpiece. Such an understated movie, yet I'm always devastated, no matter how many times I watch it. Link to comment
FauxPas Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 Masina was frankly a little old for the part in "La Strada" when she did it. Also she was directed to be Chaplinesque. If you want to see Masina at her very best, check her out in "The Nights of Cabiria" where she is much more spontaneous and less studied. I was also distracted that Anthony Quinn was dubbed by an Italian actor - Quinn has such a distinctive voice I missed it when I heard someone else talking through his face. Link to comment
dirac Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 Masina was frankly a little old for the part in "La Strada" when she did it. Also she was directed to be Chaplinesque. If you want to see Masina at her very best, check her out in "The Nights of Cabiria" where she is much more spontaneous and less studied. I was also distracted that Anthony Quinn was dubbed by an Italian actor - Quinn has such a distinctive voice I missed it when I heard someone else talking through his face. It’s a studied performance, yes, but Masina’s a quick study. I love her reactions when Quinn makes it clear that sex is part of the deal, and she’s very touching when she mourns Basehart. It gave me quite a turn to hear this gruff Italian voice coming out of Farley Granger in “Senso.” Link to comment
papeetepatrick Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 I think 'La Strada' is a masterpiece, don't see anything campy about it. That may be a perception that occurs with various people with many period things. I think a lot of period things are campy that other people take completely seriously, but 'La Strada' is very moving for me. We all know there's no accounting for tastes, and lots of 19th century ballet music is campy, although I like much of Drigo, Delibes, and even Schneitzhoeffer even when they're corny, but hate Minkus and won't bother with 'Giselle,' (this is a profanation in here, I know) because of Adam's music. So much for camp--and Ms. Sontag is not all that illuminating on the topic: She's just as subjective as we all are! Couldn't choose between 'Rules of the Game' and 'Grand Illusion,' you have to see both eventually. I like 'Kiss Me Kate, no matter how imperfect. No reason to go through life without 'Too Darn Hot.' Never saw 'Remains of the Day' nor want to either--something of a relief, because this board's got my schedule in almost all fields crammed going and coming. Link to comment
canbelto Posted June 8, 2006 Author Share Posted June 8, 2006 Maybe "campy" is the wrong word. I'd more say "affected." Someone mentioned "Chaplinesque" and I agree -- but I sort of think Masina is Chaplinesque in the wrong ways. Chaplin could drop the act and become totally naturalistic -- like the final moments of City Lights. As I said, at times I felt like I was watching a puppet show. I might appreciate it more on second viewing, but I don't think it's my kind of movie. Link to comment
papeetepatrick Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 Well, that's legit, but have you also seen 'Nights of Cabiria' and 'Juliet of the Spirits?' You might feel the same way, I just happen to love Ms. Massina. But again, that's just personal preference, means nothing. There's a hilarious big hunky actor in 'Cabiria' that dances with Massina in the most amazing comical way, he hulking over tiny little Massina. I'll go fetch his name...Amadeo Nazzari--very cool moment. She's also in 'Il Bidone' with BRODERICK CRAWFORD! Fellini really did know how to do some weird casting, what with Anita Ekberg sublime-busted in 'La Dolce Vita.' Link to comment
canbelto Posted June 9, 2006 Author Share Posted June 9, 2006 I rewatched La Strada when I came home from work. (I had taped it on my dvd recorder.) Masina frustrates me. Because there's a part of her acting that is appealingly naturalistic. Her voice is surprisingly hearty and emotional. But then there's the endless Chaplinesque "posing": the puppy-dog eyes coupled with the childlike smile. To me, this grows old. And it has the unusual (and perhaps) unintended effect of making the movie seem rather static. The storyline and script suggests that Gelsomina is less and less able to endure Zamparo's abuse, even though she loves him. But the constant sad/childlike smile makes it seem like, as I said before, a puppet show. I think the story is very moving, and well-directed, and Anthony Quinn does the impossible by making me care for this absolute brute, but ultimately I think the movie would have had more pathos had Masina/Fellini not shoved so much pathos down my throat. Link to comment
papeetepatrick Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 I rewatched La Strada when I came home from work. Definitely the impressive way to work at these things. I've watched that 1964 'Sleeping Beauty' 4 times since you first posted about it, and finally figured out what the Rose Adagio is. This is on the wrong one of your threads, but I think that the grey colour of the Lilac Fairy is just that non-state-of-the-art filming. Sometimes it does look lilac, and then only the top part does. I think the faded-looking colour is pretty, though, because they sometimes look like paper dolls. Have a good trip! As faux pas said, you might like Masina in 'Cabiria' when you get the chance to see it. She and her husband were great people. Link to comment
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