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Things heating up on the ice in Moscow

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Lots of surprises going on in Moscow as we speak. Michelle Kwan is struggling a great deal with the new scoring system. After qualifying rounds, she placed 5th behind Slutskaya, Suguri, Arakawa (defending champ) and Carolyn Kostner. The result is that for the first time in over 10 years, Kwan will not be included in the last to skate group of six. Kwan said the new scoring system had her off her game.

Slutskaya did quite well, but was breathing heavily after her performance.

With the men, Lysacek is the highest scorer of U.S. men, currently in 5th. Weir, who has an ongoing foot injury, is 7th, and fell once. So did Goebel. I sure miss Matt Savoie in this group. I think he would have fit this threesome better than Goebel does. We're seeing a return to artistic skating with our U.S. men -- in my opinion, it's great to see the almighty quad not be such a big deal.

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Plushenko withdrew in the long. I was never a big fan... God, that Biellmann spin. Men just don't look good doing that. Lambiel (SUI) won it all - the qualifications, the short and the free.

I hope Sasha Cohen and Carolina Kostner skate well.

This seems to be a whole new generation of skaters. When I started skating, the big names were Stojko, Yagudin, Plushenko, Goebel, Butyrskaya, Nikodinov, Volchkova, Malinina... It's nice to see new faces at the top.

I do miss Anissina and Peizerat, though.

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It is nice to see new people. I'd like to see someone like Joannie Rochette make a big splash.

I thought Plushenko's Biellmann looked kind of neat when he was seventeen or so, but he's been too old for it for some time now. It looks labored. Same for Slutskaya's. Unfortunately, because the new scoring system values Biellmanns so highly, it's likely that neither skater will see the light on this issue.

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Right -- laboriously pulling the leg up and holding the foot just doesn't have the same merit as some beautifully stretched and held spirals. I've always wondered why the U.S. has got such a 'leg up' so to speak in that aspect of artistry. Spirals just don't seem to be valued or worked on by the Russians. Any idea as to why?

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I've been watching on tv this week as well - here in Canada we get fairly decent coverage I think.

I was surprised to hear our commentators say that the new scoring system was affecting Kwan - wouldn't you think that her coaches, etc. would be making SURE that everything was in tip top shape, for a skater of her calibre? I'm not a skater, so I'm sure I'm missing something there.......

I LOVED Lambiel, but was also proud of the Canadian J. Buttle. I keep hoping for greater things from Sandhu, but oh well. He is so incredibly talented it's a shame he can't seem to do two consistently strong programs at the same competition.

As for the ice dancing, I'm off shortly to watch the finals, for some reason CBC decided that we didn't need to see ALL the final couples last night....GRR. Can someone tell me how those infamous twizzles are scored? I can see that unison is important, but what about the actual positioning of the "working" leg (i.e. the one that is bent)? Some skaters seem to only raise the leg a little - others raise it a lot...is there one way that is preferable? I know what I think looks better, but this isn't entirely consistent with the judges marking apparently..........

The top two couples looked lovely, and I'm so happy for Wing and Lowe (Canada, 10th place). Tenth was their goal, and they achieved it! :yahoo:

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The new system has A LOT of new tricks and coaches aren't used to it yet. I believe Kwan's program was made in accordance with the new rules, but it is difficult to find the right balance between the high-level elements and skater's abilities. I don't know how well you know the new system - the skater(s) must perform their routine at the official practice - whole, or in parts, and the Technical Specialist decides about the level of difficulty for each required element.

During the actual event, the judges don't necessarily know what the difficulty is, they just evaluate the performance. They can give -3 -2 -1 0 +1 +2 or +3 to each element and that mark is added to the basic value of each element. I can't wait to see the judges' scores (protocol) if it will be made public.

To learn more about the new system (includig specific levels and values), check out ISU's website at http://www.isu.org/vsite/vnavsite/page/dir...av-list,00.html (the pdf files at the bottom of the page) :yahoo:

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I don’t think it’s the new system alone that’s hurting Kwan. She was done in by several factors. She was damaged by her performance in the qualifying round and could not make it up. No matter how much she tinkered with the Bolero program, it never jelled. Etc.

Kwan is just not a favorite with the international judges right now. Maybe she can change that – fourth place is not total disaster – and maybe not.

Very little top of the line skating in this competition, I think. No one was at his best. Very happy for Lambiel and Buttle. Very upset at ESPN for its meager coverage.

I keep hoping for greater things from Sandhu, but oh well.

I know. It's just too bad. I heard Rochette and Phaneuf didn't do well, and was sorry to hear it.

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Watching Kwan's programs, I assumed from looking at the leveled elements -- spirals, spins, footwork -- that despite getting program evaluation and advice from Lakernik, an ISU bigwig, she was getting killed by low levels of difficulty under the new scoring system.

When I looked at the protocols for the quali round, this appeared to be so: her base difficulty was 44.00 compared to Slutskaya's of 55.70. However, this base score included two downgraded jumps (2F and 2S), which lowered her base by 7 points; she also dropped the 2T off two of three planned combos, after struggling (and doubling) the first flip and faltering on the 3T, and this cost her 2.6 base points. Adding 9.6 to 44, her planned program had a base of 53.9, which was less than 2 points less difficult than Slutskaya's program.

The difference was in execution: Slutskaya earned 59.24 points, or a little over 4 points above her base program, while Kwan earned 44.76, or only .76 above base, having lost 2.64 points on three flawed jumps. Slutskaya was so dominant that she still managed to net over 4 points, despite flaws on two jumps (3Lo and 2A) that lost her 2.86 points.

In the LP, because Slutskaya performed an illegal third 3Lo which received no credit, Kwan's base score was actually higher than Slutskaya's (56.7 vs. 56.1), but even so, Kwan couldn't capitalize, losing 5.71 points on the fall on the 3S and flawed 3Lz, for a total of 55.62, compared to Slutskaya, who received 64.03 points, well over base. (Slutskaya didn't receive a single negative GOE from any judge for her LP.)

There were no truly great skates in the qualification rounds (sadly), but Kwan's performance was lackluster, as though she never really felt the ice properly. Her fifth-place finish was what I felt she should have gotten in last year's qualis, where I thought she was held up to skate in the final group in the SP. Slutskaya's was, by far, the best, and I was surprised at how close Cohen's scores were, for a relatively flat skate. It is clear that the judges want to give Cohen a title, if she'd only grab it. Kwan seemed slower than she has over the last couple of years, and her spins range from medium to slow in speed, although she hits beautiful positions and makes clean transitions between them. The biggest change over the last year has been in the power in her jumps: she'll never be a Slutskaya or Sebestyen or Sokolova, or maybe not even a Rochette, but she looks so much stronger, and she made Cohen's jumps look anemic by comparison, which wasn't true the last three years.

Lack of speed and power was Kwan's undoing in the SP as well, although she looked better than in the quali round. I thought she was a little underrated in the choreography and interpretation for Spartacus. If the judges had taken the mandatory deductions for Slutskaya's break between the steps and 3F and a travel on one of her early spins, as well as penalized her for a very wobbly edge -- multiple changes of edge, actually -- in the first phase of the spiral sequence, she might have been in third in the SP (with all top three skaters within 1 point of each other.) If anyone was stellar in the SP, it was Sokolova, to Don Quixote. In my opinion, she was as underrated in the SP as she had been overrated in the LP, where for 30 of Tchaikovsky's most dramatic seconds of music, she noodled around and skated cross-overs. Kostner was quite wonderful in the short program as well.

Kwan had the performance in the LP that she needed in the quali round. However, despite a much stronger performance, her component scores weren't great shakes, averaging from 7.19 to 7.68, which many of the top tier skaters this year have matched. The second mark was always Kwan's calling card. Bolero was a tough, plodding sell, and Kwan bypassed the Grand Prix, where she could have gotten an indication of her standing under the new system.

Inexplicably, Rochette was "ranked" below Poykio in both the quali and SP's, when she skated much stronger programs, had much greater speed -- although Poykio has the softest stroking of all of the Ladies -- and more drama and "oomph." The judges seemed to want to keep Ando close to contention, because her PCS were, in my opinion, far too high, particularly in the SP. Rochette was this year's Volchkova: after being held down in the first two rounds, she started the LP strongly, with a stunning 3T+3T combinations, leading to a melt down, which was such a shame, because David Wilson's Firebird was such a wonderful program. Arakawa had a terrible, lackluster competition.

Kostner was the great surprise, finally putting together three fine programs in one competition, after a disastrous Europeans in Torino. Thankfully, Poykio came in top 10, which means two Ladies from Finland at next year's Olympics and Worlds. Liashenko's 10th place finish means that Ukraine will qualify two Ladies as well, although Rochette's 11th means only one Canadian Lady at the Olympics, although two at Worlds in Calgary.

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It is clear that the judges want to give Cohen a title, if she'd only grab it.

True. They’ve been giving her gifts for years now – all she has to do is stay on her feet.

Thank you so much for a report from the scene. How did the men look to you?

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Sorry, I didn't mean to suggest that Cohen fell in the LP this time around -- only that it's been pretty clear from her marks (to me, anyway :) ) that the judges are willing to overlook virtually everything else if she just doesn't fall. Considering that Slutskaya was near her best and Cohen wasn't -- Cohen was very close in the LP.

I admit, she's not a favorite of mine, and that may very well color my judgment. (I thought she was fabulous when she first appeared on the scene, but later on it struck me that she was a tad overpraised.)

I desperately missed Dick Button's commentating this time around. He's not as sharp as he once was, but he still catches things no one else does. If Susie Wynne had been there I might not have missed him quite so much, but Fleming and Carruthers left a lot to be desired. It's just not the same without "That was first rate!" and "That was UNCALLED for!"

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Ah, yes, the Men. A veritable Intensive Care Unit.

The qualis:

The qualification morning started off with Brian Joubert's skate at 10am in a pretty empty arena -- and it was Luzniki Palace, which only seats 2-3K people. There were perhaps 200-300 of us there altogether, most of us with jetlag. He skated as if it were a 6am practice skate. I don't think he moved a facial muscle throughout the entire program. He left out a jumping pass, and, as a result, a bunch of technical points on the table. He execution was slightly below base. His component scores were inexplicably high, particularly since he had little by way of choreography or transitions that wasn't generic, and without energy and his normally considerable power and speed, his program looked quite empty. Lambiel skated to a month-old program (King Arthur) with considerable energy, attack, and verve, and his total PCS were literally one point higher. After landing a nice 3A and a brilliant 4T+3T combination to open, he was slightly atilt on about half his jumps, and might have been overmarked slightly, but not by much more than a point or so in total. It was quite a brilliant start.

Lysacek had his jumping issues, with his 3A getting away from him on a flawed opening 3A+3T combo and a fall on the solo 3A in his third element, but except for a messy 3Lz towards the end of the program, he didn't let it faze him, given that this was his first Worlds. He skated Singing in the Rain quite joyfully. Buttle downgraded his opening combo to 3F+2T and also lost his 3A for the quali round: his 3A+3T combo was flawed, and he fell on an attempted 3A that was downgraded to 2A, which in itself is a loss of nearly 4 points. He also botched the 3S, which is unusual for him. Like Lysacek, though, he didn't let the program get away from him. Contesti, a young French skater who was making his World debut, skated very well, and was underscored a bit in components.

Buttle and Lysacek were lucky to be 4th and 3rd in their quali round, but Dambier, Zhang, van der Perren, and Goebel skated very poorly and couldn't take advantage of the relatively weak group. Takahashi skated respectably after Honda, skating 3rd, went up for his 4T, jacknifed as if he were doing a flying sit spin, and fell on his stomach. He had injured his ankle in practice, and tore it up while launching his 4T. He was lifted into a wheelchair to leave the ice.

Happily for me, Kristoffer Berntsson of Sweden was in 12th, and it wasn't a nailbiter whether he'd qualify. Sadly, neither Smalun nor Verner could land enough to qualify. One kid who did sneak into 14th place was Viktor Pfeiffer of Austia, a tall, lanky 17-year old who flirted outrageously with the pretty young women in the first row and seemed to have no nerves whatsoever.

In the second quali round, Plushenko skated very cautiously. We were sitting four rows up from the front on the short side of the rink where many skaters started their straightline footwork. The big pause before the footwork begins is where Plushenko usually plays the crowd, but his expression was strained as he looked towards us. He was skating with groin and back injuries, and his center was quite contracted, although his only technical flaw was on the 3Lz. I think his choreography score was overmarked -- in my opinion, Godfather is the weakest program he's skated in four years -- and, inexplicably was higher than Lindemann's, who had brilliant choreography. I didn't think Plushenko was overmarked in Interpretation though; I prefer him to be a little bit subdued, but not because he's hurt. Lindemann, too, was suffering from an injury, and his 3A abandoned him as well, in addition to the 3F. He opened, though, with a fabulous 4T+3T combination, and his spins have improved 50% since last year. Unfortunately, he's a skater who must be seen in person to really appreciate his flow, phrasing, ice coverage, and deep edges.

Chenjiang Li didn't have the most brilliant skate, but he, too, has improved over the last year, and I thought he was robbed in the component scores. Like Stojko, he fused martial arts movement into skating, and, like Stojko, the judges gave him little credit for it. Johnny Weir had tendonitis in his toe and was given injections in order to skate. He skated cautiously and little slowly, but the first half of his program was technically sound, and he amassed many points above base until he doubled the Loop about midway through, and it was rather downhill from there: base on the 3S, a singled Flip, and a missed jump element. IIRC, he only has one combo in the program, and that is just too many points to bypass. His skating is exquisite, nonetheless, but he just didn't have his usual flair.

Dobrin was a nice surprise in 5th, especially since Griazev had many problems with his jumps, although despite this, Griazev showed more overall control and carriage than he did last year. I wish Dobrin could work with a coach who would stretch his line and expect finish, because Gromova, his and Slutskaya's coach, won't make those demands. Dinev skated quite well, considering he missed Europeans to stay in the US with Angela Nikodinov, when her mother was killed in the crash that also injured their coach severely. (Nikodinov was in Moscow to cheer him on at Worlds.)

Sandhu popped his quad combo attempt into a 2T and downgraded two other jumps (1A and 2F). He didn't have a bad skate -- he received only one negative grade on his 3A+2T combo early on -- but his base technical score was very low. I don't think his choreography was very strong this year, and he didn't have much originality or charisma. He looked as if he were going through the motions.

Happy surprises were Nurmenkari, the young Finn who has improved each year, Karel Zelenka, the young Italian who's coached by his father -- that always makes me feel sympathy for him -- and has also improved greatly, and Jamal Othman, the beautiful, lyrical young Swiss skater. I think Othman is one of the most talented young skaters, a dancer on ice, and one to watch.

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Awesome reports, Helene! Thanks!

For the handful of us who don't have ESPN on our cable subs., you almost put us in the arena.

I was wondering about Dick Button, as he appeared on a PBS fundraiser during the course of Worlds'. It occurred to me that it may have been taped in advance, but then he said something about no longer covering the events. He's been the conscience of American skating since I can remember, and I will miss him.

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Helene, I was wondering if you have any opinions about Hegel and Sebestyen in the ladies event?


I like both of these skaters very much. Sebestyen had the impossible draw in the quali round: first up in the first group at 10am. Skating to Carmen, she started with a fantastic, huge 3F, but then fell on what once had been her strongest, but for the past few years has been her nemesis jump, the 3Lz. (She had a forward lean.) I thought her 3Lo from turning 3's was great, but there must have been an underrotation or some error I didn't see, because the protocols give her base score on the jump. She had a rather flat skate, and was given mostly base scores by all of the judges for her spins and spiral, although she hit wonderful, clean positions on them. Her jumps abandoned her, though: she downgraded the Salchow and second Lutz to doubles and tacked on a 1T to the 2Lu, and she also tacked on a 2T to the 2A, which had been quite a nice Axel, but was graded, correctly, on the worst-performed jump. Her serpentine footwork looked rather slow and labored, and was a much smaller pattern than in the finals.

In my opinion, Hegel was judged by protocol: for the quali round, my notes say she had great speed going into the opening 3Lz+2T combination and that most of her spins were fast and well-centered, yet she received base for nearly every element, except two jumps on which she faltered: a hands down on a 3S and a 3S+2T, in which she tacked on the 2T. (The combo was planned for the first attempt.) She moved beautifully across the ice, and I was very impressed with her skate, although the music, Don Juan de Marco couldn't have been more generic. I think she wuzrobbed on the component scores, being placed below Dytrt, who my notes say, "faulty hops into Lutz entries. Flies around, good attack, but no body line or finish, no difference between adagio and allegro." (She skated to Spartacus.)

On the whole in the SP the Ladies in the top 10 either had clean skates (Kostner, Kwan, Poykio) or had a jump error (or more) that were compensated by high levels of difficulty on their spins, steps, and spiral and/or very high component scores. Sebestyen, skating relatively early due to her low standing in the quali, opened with another stunning 3F, but then fell on the 3Lu and didn't complete the combination. I thought she skated five of the remaining six elements superbly, including a huge, fast flying camel and a nicely done spiral, but her circular footwork got bogged down. (She skated a much bigger circle -- or perhaps ellipse -- than most of the Ladies.)

I thought Hegel's opening 3Lu+2T deserved higher than base, which she received from every judge. Her 3F was flawed, and she had a noticeable break between the steps and jump (as did Slutskaya, who got no such mandatory deduction.) Her combo change combo spin was a bit messy, but she did a very nice spread eagle entrance into a solid 2A and a very fast, nice layback. The rest of her elements were satisfactory. Her elements ran the gamut in this program, but she received the range of presentation scores (mid to high 5's) that she should have received in the quali round, in my opinion.

When Hegel and Joanne Carter from Australia end up ahead of Sebestyen in the free skate, you know that Sebestyen had a melt-down of major proportions, ending in 16th place, and dropping out of the top 10 for the competition. (One Hungarian lady at Olympics and Worlds next year sad.gif ) She started with yet another fantastic, huge 3F, and even landed a huge 3Lu, although she was too close to the boards to add the 2T. From there her jumps abandoned her: her flawed Loop attempts (from running 3's) was downgraded to a double before -2 GOE was deducted, she downgraded a sequence to 2S SEQ 2T, she tacked on a weak 1T to a flawed 3Lu, she doubled the Toe, and she created a 1A SEQ 1A, after singling the first Axel. Nonetheless, her other elements were quite fine, and her serpentine footwork had the speed and power it lacked in the quali round. It was such a sad thing to see, especially since she gained expression over the season in the slow section ("Flower Song"). She didn't give up her commitment to the program, either, even when her jumps unravelled.

Hegel opened her program with a 3Lu+2T+2Lo, which I thought should have been rated higher than the base score she received. She followed with a very nice 3F, a 2A right on the music, a flying camel that started strongly but slowed, a few okay jumps (3S+2T and 3T) and a wonderful 3Lo -- one of the best of the night -- a very respectable spiral, and a few elements that started out fine (combo spin, straightline footwork), but died a bit towards the end.
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Right -- laboriously pulling the leg up and holding the foot just doesn't have the same merit as some beautifully stretched and held spirals.  I've always wondered why the U.S. has got such a 'leg up' so to speak in that aspect of artistry.  Spirals just don't seem to be valued or worked on by the Russians.  Any idea as to why?

I'm a little late, but actually this started fairly recently, in the mid-1990s. Nicole Bobek (1995 U.S. National Champion and World Bronze Medallist) had a spectacular spiral and most of the rest of the U.S. ladies worked hard to keep up, and now it's become a feature of the national skating "style". Before that it wasn't so prominent. But personally I don't like most of the extreme spiral postitions because it requires a fairly ugly displacement of the hip (i.e., leg to the side instead of to the back).

As for the question about twizzles, the free leg position (as opposed to the skating leg-- the one with the foot on the ice) is optional. As long as it's controlled, you're generally okay, unless it's just an ugly position. Twizzles are scored right now, basically, on number of revolutions and entry edges (or, really, changing entry edges and directions in a twizzle sequence-- the edges themselves aren't given much credit, as if the ISU believes each of the 8 twizzles is equally difficult, which is certainly not the case). Obviously the turn needs to be steady, balance held, unison kept (into, during, and out of the twizzle), etc. In my opinion twizzles are given way too much attention in the new scoring system-- ice dance is not about being able to do an 8 revolution twizzle (as I saw one jr. level dancer working on the other day). I've heard the ISU is thinking about restructuring the twizzle requirements, but nothing will be definite until after Congress (in June, I think).

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But personally I don't like most of the extreme spiral postitions because it requires a fairly ugly displacement of the hip (i.e., leg to the side instead of to the back).

Yes. And too much attention is paid to the leg in the air, as opposed to what the blade is doing (or not doing) on the ice.

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too much attention is paid to the leg in the air, as opposed to what the blade is doing (or not doing) on the ice.

I agree, which is why I should always prefer Kwan's long-held and change of edge spirals to Cohen's which are skated on a rather flat edge, even if she has the better extension. I also hate the charlotte, which is required to perform on a flate blade. It's a hideous position and doesn't require the effort of an upheld back. This has nothing to do with legs in the air, but in terms of positions of blades on ice, I don't think there could be anything more exhilarating than a beautifully executed, deeply held eagle.

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although Rochette's 11th means only one Canadian Lady at the Olympics, although two at Worlds in Calgary.


(One Hungarian lady at Olympics and Worlds next year sad.gif )


Happily, I was wrong on both counts. I had heard that qualifying for the Olympics was harder than qualifying for Worlds, but both competitions use the same formula to qualify more than one skater:

If one skater competes, then:
1. If placement points are two or less, the country earns three spots
2. If placement points are three to ten, the country earns two spots

If two skaters compete, then:
1. If total placement points equal 13 or less, the country earns three spots
2. If total placement points equal 28* or less, the country earns two spots

Skaters who place 1st-15th earn one point for each placement. If the skater doesn't qualify for the SP (not top 30), then the skater earns 20 points for placing 20th through last place. If the skater qualifies for the SP, but not for the LP (not top 24), then the skater earns 18 points for placing 25th-30th. If the skater qualifies for the LP, then the skater earns 16 points for placing 16th-24th.

If three skaters compete, then the top two placements are calculated as if two skaters competed.

For Ladies, Canada's total placement points total 27 (11 for Rochette's 11th place and 16 for Pfaneuf's 20th place). Hungary's total placement points total 28 (12 for Sebestyen's 12th place and 16 for Pavuk's 18th place). Each country earns two spots, along with Ukraine (for Liashenko's 10th place), Finland (for Poykio's 8th place), and Italy (Kostner's 3rd place). The US (Cohen's 2nd and Kwan's 4th), Russia (Slutskaya's 1st and Sokolova's 7th), and Japan (Suguri's 5th and Ando's 6th) earned three spots. Earning one spot each are Croatia (yay, Idora Hegel!), Australia (woo hoo Joanne Carter), Switzerland (love Sarah Meier!), Germany (Dytrt, overrated IMO), and Sweden (nice job Lina Johansson). For Sweden, this is a triumph, as after producing the great early 20th century champions, the program has been mired in worse than mediocrity for many years, and this year had a nice senior debut by Johansson and a very solid performance (14th) by Kristoffer Berntsson in the stronger men's field.

For Men, Canada and the US qualified for three spots, Switzerland, China, France, Belgium and Russia for two spots, and Germany (sad.gif), Bulgaria (Dinev!), Sweden (Berntsson!!!), Romania, Israel, Italy, and Belarus earned one. In Pairs, Russia and China earned three spots, and Germany, Poland, Canada, Ukraine, and US earned two spots.

The rest of the spots: six each for Men and Ladies and four for Pairs will be decided at the Karl Schaeffer Memorial competition in Vienna in mid-October, unless Italy decides to send a Pair -- then five will be chosen at KSM -- or if any country decides to send less than its quota. (Possible for the smaller Federations.)

What's in the water -- or who's the coach -- in Ukraine that produces such wonderful Ladies' pair skaters? Although they skate for other countries, Savchenko (Germany) and Obertas (Russia) are among the finest pair skaters in the world along with Volosozhar.
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For anyone who cares to, you can check out who qualified for how many spots for the Olympics and what the procedures at Karl Schafer will be here: ISU Communication 1313.

It quite often happens that the smaller federations don't use all their spots (primary example at the moment I suppose being Bulgaria and dance), so more spots will be available at Karl Schafer than it appears there will be just from looking at the qualifications from Worlds. The host country always gets an automatic entry into every event, but since Italy already has a man, 2 ladies, and 2 dance spots qualified, that will only apply to Pairs, and even there it should still be 4 or 5 spots open at Karl Schafer, as it appears that Ukraine and Poland (who both qualified two spots) only have one pair each (could be wrong about Ukraine, but I'm pretty sure about Poland).

Edited by RedSonja
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