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Rose Adagio balancesa poll


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Poll: The Rose Adagio balances (68 member(s) have cast votes)

Is it necessary for Auroras to make the "crown" 5th position over their heads?

  1. Yes - an Aurora who can't hold the balances shouldn't dance Aurora (43 votes [63.24%])

    Percentage of vote: 63.24%

  2. No - it's only 5 minutes out of a 2 hour ballet (12 votes [17.65%])

    Percentage of vote: 17.65%

  3. I don't care either way (13 votes [19.12%])

    Percentage of vote: 19.12%

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#46 papeetepatrick

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Posted 06 October 2008 - 09:14 PM

Papeetepatrick, in my opinion, the ballerina doesn't actually have to lower her arm slowly so much as calmly. One can be both calm and swift, and in addition to the practical concern of staying on pointe, there is also that of the music, which has to be slowed down if she is going to raise her arm to 3rd because it takes more time to get to that position, and also she will need more time to prepare for each balance. If we add to that the prescription that the arm must move slowly up and down, the music would be a dirge! :dunno: I do think that the ballerina with the calmest, most regal movement in this section is Sizova. Her movements are not really slow, but there is a secure regularity to them. The arm goes up, the arm goes down, without any hint of either insecurity or showing off.


Hans! I got around to the pleasure of watching this again, and all three times are different. And it's as much the movement away from the suitor's hand as it is the often too anxious movement back. With Sizova, there is never the anxious movement back to the next hand, but on the first one, I thought that even she began with slightest nervousness as her hand left the first man (but it works when this only happens once!). Then with the second, she becomes more confident in both moving up and back, but it's the third which is so impeccably self-assured and at totally commanding ease that just knocks you out. And, although the Fonteyn you linked to a few weeks ago is no longer available, I didn't think she came even near what Sizova achieves here: The movement in a few seconds (perhaps twenty?) from slightly nervous to serenely confident is one of the most incredible achievements I've ever seen, because it works physically in such a way that there is no separation from the physical, the musical, and the dramatic. Paul had mentioned the 'she has to become the queen', and here you see her make the transformation in these three movements of the arm, which may themselves make the balance have three different and progressively stronger 'personalities', even though it is itself almost stationary (correct me on this, I imagine, there may be slight movement with each hand change, but it's hard to see on film), but it surely has had to grow in strength and confidence, and the arms may both lend strength to them and their growing strength also allows the arms to really flow. In fact, by the 3rd one, there is not even the slightest speeding of the 'dancer-music', because there doesn't need to be any further consideration given to security. So I agree Sizova's is by far the most regal, but I also think she really does not do them so much 'slowly', but does not speed against the music, and progressively becomes exactly bonded with it. It's really been worth it to concentrate on this single moment, because it's very brief the transformation Aurora makes, and the initial first slightly nervous move away makes the 3rd movement up and back this kind of miracle.

Edited to add: I just watched it yet again, and the 3rd time the hand comes back down, Sizova really does take a little extra time, a kind of leisure--and that has the effect of making you even forget that it's a balance going on. Oh, MAN!!! she had what it takes.

#47 Hans

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Posted 07 October 2008 - 07:22 AM

I just watched Sizova again, and you are right about the progression--and what's more, she does it during both sets of balances. Now that is technical security! And of course her entrance is unparalleled.

#48 Paul Parish

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Posted 24 November 2008 - 07:01 PM

Well-done, Papeetepatrick! Bravo.

It's great to have film to confirm that instantaneous impression.

Once you've seen sovereignty in a gesture like this, you never forget it. The effect is as you say not just a technical achievement but a dramatically appropriate one -- and the communications made non-verbally like htis affect everyone. A cat would understand this and acknowledge her authority.

#49 bart

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Posted 08 December 2010 - 07:07 AM

For some reason, this old thread keeps popping up in my "View New Content" list. :unsure: It's an excellent thread. So, for those who haven't voted in the poll or weighed in with their thoughts .... here's a second chance to do so.

#50 richard53dog

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Posted 08 December 2010 - 07:19 AM

For some reason, this old thread keeps popping up in my "View New Content" list. :unsure: It's an excellent thread. So, for those who haven't voted in the poll or weighed in with their thoughts .... here's a second chance to do so.



I noticed the same thing. It's been popping up a lot in the last few days. Maybe someone is bumping it up for some reason???

#51 cubanmiamiboy

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Posted 08 December 2010 - 08:46 AM

It's been popping in my list too...

#52 Helene

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Posted 08 December 2010 - 11:26 AM

Poll threads appear in "View New Content" at the latest datetime when someone either posts or votes. The last posted info only shows the last post. There is no mechanism for showing the last vote.

If the last post on a poll thread is not recent and the thread appears in "View New Content", it means someone has very recently voted.

#53 richard53dog

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Posted 09 December 2010 - 05:51 AM

Poll threads appear in "View New Content" at the latest datetime when someone either posts or votes. The last posted info only shows the last post. There is no mechanism for showing the last vote.

If the last post on a poll thread is not recent and the thread appears in "View New Content", it means someone has very recently voted.



Ahhh...mystery solved. Thanks, Helene.

#54 ViolinConcerto

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 04:56 AM

Because it keeps "popping up," and people make new comments, I got to see the thread for the first time, so thanks for the renewed questions, etc.

I looked at the YouTube clip of Fonteyn posted by Hans in 2008 in color (I have a DVD of the black and white TV version) and noticed at the bottom of the page that Keith Money (who posted it) responded to someone's remarks and said that he has films of the entire first act. Now, THAT is worth waiting for.

Wouldn't it be great to have a seminar and look at the many "Rose Adagio's" in sequence (with a good connection) and have open discussions!

Edited by ViolinConcerto, 10 December 2010 - 05:01 AM.


#55 ksk04

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Posted 24 January 2011 - 06:42 PM

Did anyone see the video posted today of Tamara Rojo's Rose Adagio? She, uhm, takes some liberties with the last set of balances toward the end. I have to say I don't like the effect at all. There is no serenity, no real sense of triumph (the swell of music has been totally disregard -- along with those last two princes!), especially as she almost falls out of the first balance.

Well, see for yourself:



#56 cinnamonswirl

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 07:04 AM

^ I'm actually not so bothered by her changing the choreography at the end -- the balance is impressive enough that I give her a pass.

What does bother me a lot is the lack of joy and ease through most of the adagio. The only time she really smiles is at the end, when she finishes that balance. The rest of the time she looks nervous, almost scared. You can see in her face that the steps are hard, and she's really working.

That's what I find so nice about the recording with Viviana Durante. She smiles the whole time, she's happy and serene and above it all. It all looks so easy.

#57 Barbara

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 08:22 AM

Oh I do feel bad for the poor fellow she left standing with his hand out!

It brings to mind a story Irina Baronova tells in her memoir, which I'm just now reading. Baronova, Danilova, and Toumanova were rehearsing Aurora's Wedding. "One day Boris Kochno was watching the rehearsal when Toumanova took her turn to rehearse. Instead of one, two, three pirouettes, she did two, three, four pirouettes. Not to be outdone, when my turn came I did the same." Kochno was very displeased. He asked, "What the hell do you think you're doing distorting Petipa's choreography? He wanted one, two, three pirouettes. He had his reasons - style and musicality. Respect the choreographer and pay attention to the style and period of the old classics. No circus, please.!"

Words to heed for many of the more acrobatically-inclined dancers. Not meaning to paint Rojo with that brush - I don't really know enough of her work to know if she often distorts choreography to the detriment of musicality and style.

#58 Ballet fan

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 10:55 AM

Ugh! I didn't like Rojo's Rose Adagio. I agree with the poster that says she looks nervous and scared. Actually, more than that she projects tiredness and not the majesty and joy of a princess celebrating her birthday and being wooed by four handsome men. She dances very matter of factly and like she wants to get over with it. Such a long balance is actually distasteful in something like this. My gold standard for Rose Adagios will always be Fonteyn, Kolpakova, Sizova and in modern times Durante and Cojocaru. Maybe I'm being too critical but when I watch a Rose Adagio I want to be wowed by the whole scene, and I don't mean only the decor and costumes. Even though Sleeping Beauty is not a ballet with as many dramatic demands as Giselle, Swan Lake or Romeo and Juliet, Aurora is a very expressive role. It's an opportunity to show the true grandeur and splendor of balletic movement because the choreography is so good and the music is marvelous. It's only my opinion but that's how I feel about the role of Aurora. Sorry for the long post but seeing something like this and reading everyone's very intelligent remarks makes one's mind work. :)

#59 bart

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 01:02 PM

I agree with the poster that says she looks nervous and scared.

You can actually see her take a big breath, with a heaving of the shoulders, as she begins her movement towards the first Rose. I read it as communicating: "Well, here goes. No way to escape this now."

(Perhaps she had been informed ahead of time that the cameraman intended to cut her body at certain key times, showing only feet and legs and leaving her without a face or torso. Ouch.) :wink:

#60 vipa

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 05:47 PM

I agree with so many posters that didn't enjoy the Rojo performance.

For me the balance used her, she didn't use the balance. I'm a person who loves to see the balances and isn't happy unless the arms go up to fifth. That said, If you can balance like Rojo you should have options. She could have been super musical and gracious, but she chose to just balance. It would have been different if she had been able to smile and nod to the poor prince who had his hand out (that is asking for a bit much but you know what I mean). Much is lost if you don't in some way acknowledge each prince.

I'm a big fan of technique but the reason to have it is to be able to have more choices. Rojo didn't use it that way. This was more of a balancing act for its own sake.


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