Solor Posted January 3, 2005 Author Share Posted January 3, 2005 thnx RG U THA MAN! U always know.................... My swan lake CD, i never copied it, didnt u ask me to long ago? Link to comment
Joseph Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 Yeah, you asked me to get you the mariinsky version of the cd, but it is out on loan still. Did you end up getting a copy??? Link to comment
silvy Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 I seem to recall having read somewhere that this particular piece of music was from the original score by Deldevez. I think it was somewhere on this board, but cannot say it for sure. Maybe if you carry out a search you might find out? silvy Link to comment
Mel Johnson Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 It wasn't this part, but rather the pas de trois that seems to be partly or in whole by Deldevez. Link to comment
silvy Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 Mr Mel: Thank you for your clarification Link to comment
BalletIsLife Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 Below is a selection of music that I cannot place. I apologize for the quality... it is made from an old cassette tape I found. Please ignore the static and opening bars, which are nearly inaudible. When listening I can vividly remember the steps to a variation I learned as a teenage ballet student, however I am not sure what ballet is it from. Possibly Paquita? However, I did not find it on any of my Paquita CD's... Can anyone enlighten me? (Hopefully this link works!) Unknown Music Thank you! Link to comment
carbro Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 Well, it took a while to load, but this music is used in the Jardin Animee scene from Le Corsaire. I wouldn't be surprised to learn if it is used elsewhere, as well. Link to comment
BalletIsLife Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 Oh my, of course it is from the Jardin Anime! Thank you for your help! I feel quite silly for not being able to place it! Link to comment
Solor Posted February 23, 2005 Author Share Posted February 23, 2005 the music is from a recording of the Bolshoi Theater Orchestra on cd (out of print) of Paquita, though the music is from the ballet "Le Corsaire" and for the scene in this ballet - 'La Jardin Anime'. Throughout the history of ballet variations have been switched round and round. In this case, the music is by Riccardo Drigo for the last revival of Corsaire by Petipa. The variation is danced by Gulnare in the scene La Jardin Anime, and comes right after the the big adagio with corps de ballet for Medora. How it got into the Bolshoi's Rep. for Paquita I do not know. If you want to see a good example on film of this piece, DO NOT get ABTs version of Corsaire, but the KIROVS! TAKE MY ADVICE! Though Paloma Herreras performance is dazzling in the ABT film of this variation. Also, you can see this scene performed by the Kirov, along with other gems of Russian ballet, on a film called "The kirov ballet in london" available from Kultur. In it Lubov Kunakova dances the variation to slightly different choreagraphy. Well there you go enjoy! Link to comment
red911sc Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 (edited) Hello all! Does anyone know where to find music for Franz's variation from Coppelia Act III? It would be the version found in Baryshnikov's performance of Coppelia pas de deux at Wolf Trap. I've gone crazy looking for that music, and I'm certain that it's right under my nose! Thanks in Advance! Edited March 3, 2005 by red911sc Link to comment
Mme. Hermine Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 I think it comes from La Source? Link to comment
red911sc Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 I think it comes from La Source? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ahhhh! Good! I'll look into it! Thanks! Link to comment
Alexandra Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 I don't think Franz had a variation in the original production, because Franz was a travesty role (i.e., danced by a girl, in the fashion of the day). Link to comment
red911sc Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 I don't think Franz had a variation in the original production, because Franz was a travesty role (i.e., danced by a girl, in the fashion of the day). <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ahhhh...yes. That's right! It would be interesting to see the original choreography regarding the pas. Link to comment
doug Posted March 4, 2005 Share Posted March 4, 2005 Sometimes the waltz variation from Sylvia Act III is used for Franz. Link to comment
red911sc Posted March 4, 2005 Share Posted March 4, 2005 Sometimes the waltz variation from Sylvia Act III is used for Franz. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Didn't Balanchine make use of that music in his version? I haven't seen it in other productions, though. Good stuff, Doug. Link to comment
Mel Johnson Posted March 4, 2005 Share Posted March 4, 2005 Once upon a time, they also used to borrow the second period of the Valse Lente from Sylvia as a male variation for Franz. Link to comment
Mme. Hermine Posted March 4, 2005 Share Posted March 4, 2005 I think it's the La Source music that the Paris Opera uses, I had to get a tape of it for someone who was going to a competition once. (Source no longer available, tho, sorry!) Link to comment
jllaney Posted March 6, 2005 Share Posted March 6, 2005 The music Baryshnikov uses in the Coppelia variation is the mazurka from La Source. The only copy I know of is the Naxos recording. It's quick(aren't they always), but it's danceable. Now if we can just figure out how Baryshnikov does 5 & 6 turns without any effort! Link to comment
Solor Posted March 20, 2005 Author Share Posted March 20, 2005 I have both the Kirov and ABTs versions of Corsaire on film, along with a few other videos (gala performances) with scenes from the ballet. I was wondering why ABTs version and the Kirovs version differ so much musically? The incidental music, along with overtures, etc., is totally different from the Kirovs (the foundation of ABTs production). The famous numbers of the ballet are the same, like the grand pas, the trio of odalisques, the pas d'esclave, the act II mazurka, teh scene 'jardin anime'; but everything else is totally different, though the same composers are credited. I also noticed that the music in the more famous numbers is re-orchestrated (the trio of odalisques, the grand pas, the pas d'esclave - which I think is fine in the original by Pugni. The 'Jardin Anime' scene was left alone 'orchestration-wise' however. ABTs version gives no credit to a 're-orchestrator' or anyone writing additional music, though I can tell that this has happened. so what gives - does anyone know? Solor Link to comment
Mel Johnson Posted March 20, 2005 Share Posted March 20, 2005 In many cases, we don't know what the "Pugni original" was! It was a common practice in the nineteenth century for some composers simply to write a lead sheet consisting of only the first violin part, then a company of copyists would provide the arrangement for the rest of the orchestra. Rossini was infamous for this practice. Herold seems to have done it, too. What got out of Russia was often partial and sketchy, and has led to some pretty funny re-imaginings of the music. Pavlova's score for the Shades scene in Bayadere had only the first violin part for the waltz-codas for the corps and soloists. There weren't even time signatures written down. As a result, Richard Bonynge's recording of this old score makes it a 6/8 vivace movement of considerable brevity. There were no repeats. It's just this less-than-30-second thingie that's hanging there right before the general coda. Using these old scores is a lot like buying a used car. It really does help to know who had it before you! Link to comment
Joseph Posted March 20, 2005 Share Posted March 20, 2005 I can ask someone and find out for you (well hopefully...) Link to comment
Mel Johnson Posted March 20, 2005 Share Posted March 20, 2005 Remember also, that the Corsaire score, as it exists can be a hodgepodge of at least five composers. Adam wrote the original, then others came along later, and tipped stuff into it. ABT's production uses six composers. It's up to the stager as to what gets used and what doesn't. The "Jardin Animé" sequence is mostly by Delibes, and has existed, but not performed much, outside of Russia for years. I get the distinct image of these old ballet scores not existing in any single bound form, but rather like a loose-leaf binder. "Take out this variation, and put in 'Tea for Two'!" Link to comment
Ari Posted March 20, 2005 Share Posted March 20, 2005 Perhaps Doug Fullington, who staged Jardin Anime for Pacific Northwest Ballet a year or two ago, can help us out here? Doug, you here? Link to comment
doug Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 Hi all. I can speak for Jardin at the moment. Over the years an increasing amount of music has been interpolated into Corsaire, including interpolations into Jardin anime. That scene has also been re-orchestrated (the original manuscript in Delibes' hand sits in the Library of Congress). By 1899 both ballerina variations in Jardin - danced by Olga Preo. and Pierina Legnani - were interpolations from other ballets. One of those interpolations - the Medora variation - is still performed by the Kirov. As far as the Adam score for the entire ballet, Bonynge has recorded it and included Delibes original orchestration of Jardin. That can be a starting point for comparison but you won't get too far before the interpolations begin. Re modern revivals, it seems that the long-time practice of interpolation continues! Link to comment
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