dirac

I have her first album, but it's not for sale, sorry. As a Beatle fan, I took an interest. She was the first non-Beatle recording artist to have a big hit single for Apple Records (albeit one composed by Paul McCartney). I'd keep checking Amazon and eBay. Something will turn up. Sigh. Now you've done it, Lovebird. For the rest of the evening my brain will be channelling "Those were the days, my friend, we thought they'd never end, we'd sing and dance forever and a day......."

John Rockwell takes a look at the series so far and other ballroom dance related phenomena in the Times: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/15/arts/dan...html?oref=login

Hi. Just a board-related health warning that this topic should not stray from discussion of the dancing in the program. miliosr, we do try to keep our threads as close as possible to the arts. Discussion of a popular television program is not verboten under all circumstances, but there are many places on the web where detailed discussion of popular TV shows can be found and we try to stay close to the general focus of our board. I hope you understand, and welcome to Ballet Talk!

Thank you, kfw, for starting the topic. Amy, from what kfw tells us of the article, I think the author is not promoting “de-sexualized” dance, but saying that there has been a return to objectification – to viewing women only as creatures defined by their sexuality. There’s plenty of room for argument, of course.

Ari, you're a very hard act to follow. Thank you so much for all you've done, and best of luck!

Leigh was a lady born and bred, although this created certain limitations for her. (Kenneth Tynan said she approached Shakespeare’s Cleopatra “with the daintiness of a debutante called upon to dismember a stag.” Not quite what was needed. ) Neve Campbell just didn’t look right. I feel bad saying it, knowing how hard she prepped for the role and considering we owe the movie's existence largely to her, but her body’s all wrong and she doesn’t move that well. I’m still not sure what Ilia Kulik was doing in Center Stage, but he looked all right, although he was not called upon to dance.

Buster Keaton's battement was very impressive, too. Good question, nouvelle. I would say that the dancer of today is farther away from the typical "look" of a movie star than in previous eras. (In fact, some of the real dancers in "The Red Shoes," made in 1948, don't look like their modern counterparts.) To give one example, movie stars often have heads that are rather large in relation to their bodies, and with dancers it's often the reverse. I remember seeing Janet Eilber years ago in the film version of "Whose Life Is It Anyway?" and her long limbs and small, elegant head singled her out as a real dancer, not just an actress with a little dance training playing a dancer -- the difference between her and the other actors was quite obvious. Body type is less important in films, IMO, than the illusion the actor is able to create. As hockeyfan228 noted in the Bancroft thread, Anne Bancroft didn't have the stretched limbs of the real dancers she acted with, but she was able, through her body carriage and her demeanor, to convey the impression of a prima ballerina. You knew she was somebody, and somebody with a special awareness of her body and how she presented herself. (Although I do think the role might have been more effective with a true dancing Emma.) I thought Vivien Leigh looked lovely as a ballet dancer in "Waterloo Bridge," although it was wise not to show her at the barre. (Moira Shearer and Leigh shared a general physical resemblance.) Claire Bloom had the grace of a dancer in "Limelight." Melissa Hayden was her dancing double, but the director and star Charles Chaplin made Bloom take ballet lessons to prepare for the role. Old Fashioned, I thought Garbo looked pretty ridiculous in her tutu, but although she didn't convince you she was a ballerina, you knew she was a star, and an artist. Leonor Watling isn't a dancer, I'm pretty sure. I don't think Almodovar cared -- he didn't need a real dancer for the part, and for the purposes of the role, Watling's beautiful skin and "flesh impact" are more important.

Let me add my thanks, carbro. Great job.

I saw it last night and I hope to have time to report tomorrow. Nobody else there??

David Edelstein comments on Bancroft, for Slate: http://slate.msn.com/id/2120487/

Yes, and the men's feet are more turned out than in eras past, even if it isn't necessarily called for.

Thanks for that, hockeyfan228. The link is to an appreciation of Bancroft, and appreciations are generally more personal and less data-oriented than an obituary (link to the Post obit below): http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...5060701853.html I think your very interesting gloss on The Turning Point is more subtle than the text, hockeyfan228. Emma is characterized as a take no prisoners operator and would have been so in any era, I think. She’s a caricature of The Ambitious Woman. As for the catfight – the farther away it was from the camera, the better, for this viewer at any rate. Rarely have I seen a more embarrassing spectacle than two of America's biggest woman stars screaming and hitting each other with their handbags. It reminded me of the old Monty Python sketch: " The Batley Townswomens' Guild will now re-enact the Battle of Pearl Harbor" True – and occasionally to her detriment; she could be Too Much, as in “’night, Mother.”

Very true, elie. (And welcome to the board!) Although her body type wasn't really right for a dancer, at least she didn't look ridiculous in a tutu or in the rehearsal hall. (Whereas you couldn't believe that Shirley MacLaine had ever been a ballet dancer even way back when, much less a ballerina candidate.) The Graduate was a boon and a curse for her. Although Bancroft was only 34 or so, henceforth she was officially middle aged as far as movies were concerned, not good news for a woman star. Katharine Ross, who played her daughter in “The Graduate,” was about ten years younger. (!!!)

I had a few problems with the conception of Emma's character ("She's middle aged! She's unmarried! She can't dance any more! She might as well be dead!"), but Bancroft made her very real -- she's calculating, tough, but also vulnerable. In "The Pumpkin Eater" she did amazing things in a difficult part.

GWTW, there was a film version made fairly recently, starring Robert Downey, Jr., althought I can't imagine they mean that one. Either way it's an odd selection. I'm seriously peeved that Gone With the Wind is left off the list in favor of some blatantly inferior candidates, BTW.

Anne Bancroft, the distinguished actress (and co-star of the ballet film The Turning Point), has died, age 73: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/07/movies/0...l?hp&oref=login Just a few nights ago I was chortling in front of my TV as Bancroft and her husband, Mel Brooks, did a hilarious number in their remake of "To Be Or Not To Be" -- duetting on "Sweet Georgia Brown" -- in Polish.

I’ve had that experience, too – Netflix and Blockbuster have a lot of classics, but there are still quite a few titles of interest to buffs that they don’t have. I cancelled both services recently -- wasn't using them often enough, and there are several cable channels, including TCM, that suit my needs. I love TCM, although sometimes I get a little annoyed with their programming of, say, “Casablanca” seemingly every other day when other titles are shown hardly at all.

I have never seen the ballet but would like to say that I’ve enjoyed reading this thread and learning from it. Thanks to Kate, carolm, and Alexandra. Not to wander away from the topic, but apropos of Cojocaru and “Symphonic Variations,” I thought of the following exchange with Marc Haegeman from 2001: Link to the complete interview: http://www.danceview.org/interviews/cojocaru.html

A piece by Katherine A. Powers for the Boston Globe with a list of off-the-beaten-track titles for summer reading. I can second the recommendations for the O’Brien, Fraser, Burgess, and Ackerley books. The Inman diaries were a little too strange for this reader: http://www.boston.com/ae/books/articles/20...reasure?mode=PF

I once had a recording of Kay's "Who Cares?" orchestrations on CD. Can't recall the orchestra or the label. I misplaced it during a move and never found it again. I'm pretty sure it was complete.

Interesting topic. Over a hundred years, probably the first thing one would notice would be the very different body types. Dancers would become taller, thinner, possibly more athletic.

I add my thanks to carbro's, redbookish. Daneman's book caused quite a bit of discussion on Ballet Talk -- the link to the discussion is below if you'd like to take a look, and/or post your own thoughts. Welcome! http://ballettalk.invisionzone.com/index.p...opic=17923&st=0

only silvy can give you the right answer, of course, but Farrell records in "Holding On to the Air" that she asked Martins to dance it with her, and he agreed. (Didn't this come up on another thread recently? I think so.) Let me add my thank-yous to the pile, silvy!

Kronstam, Bruhn, and Martins. Is there something in the water over there? I would have mentioned Christopher Gable, but Gina got there first. I never saw him on stage, but in photos and on film he has this boyish grin that makes me melt down like the Wicked Witch of the West. It's probably just as well, because had I been present for one of his Romeos I probably would have caused a scene by climbing onstage and tossing Seymour into the orchestra pit.

Ashley's book also had a number of wonderful and instructive photographs. Her book would still be interesting without them, but they were very important as explanations and illuminations of the text. That would be an added expense to consider. (Farrell's book had far fewer pictures, and those not especially well chosen, IMO.) If you have a bookstore specializing in used books in your area, that's a good resource. I recently saw a copy of Ashley's book in fine shape for eight dollars. I didn't pick it up as I already have it, but I'm sure some fortunate person will nab it.