19 replies to this topic

[jllaney]

I was listening to my ipod on a trip from Belize and came across this wonderful piece of music.  It's the second variation from the pas de six and to my knowledge, I've never seen it performed on stage or in film.  Does anyone know if it's for a man or a woman?  It's so sad, almost like a funeral march, but it's beautiful.  I was thinking it would work well for Seigfreid's variation at the end of act 1 as he contemplates on his loneliness.
What do you think?
You can listen to it at the amazon website
http://www.amazon.co...ing=UTF8#disc_2

[Joseph]

Hi! Some versions of Swan Lake use this piece of music in Act IV as a pas de deux for Odette and Siegfreid. I do think your idea is nice to have Siegfreid dance a variation to it at the end of Act I.

[rg]

any number of SWAN LAKE stagings include this music in the final act.
ashton's is particularly beautiful and moving as it underscores a scene for odette to lead out, in rank after rank, her sister swan maidens, returning after each exit to comfort siegfried who's posed, distraught, in a semi-reclining pose on the ground.

[cubanmiamiboy]

jllaney, on Apr 25 2006, 09:45 AM, said:

I was listening to my ipod on a trip from Belize and came across this wonderful piece of music.  It's the second variation from the pas de six .

Sometimes i wonder also about the nature of this "Pas de Six"...Six princesses?, what about their story?...Was Siegfried supposed to dance with them, or they were supposed to be solo variations?...What about the "Andante con Molto"variation...was it intended to denote a particular dramatic issue regarding one of the princesses...? Was Odile contemplating the whole "Pas" in the original T./Reisinger production...? ANY INFORMATON WHATSOEVER?
I hope Mr. Mel Johnson or Mr. R.G would show me some clues...

[Mel Johnson]

Siegfried actually does dance with the fiancée-candidates, two at a time, during their introductory waltz.  When the fanfares sound again, and Odile and von Rothbart appear, then S. takes off with O., presumably to talk about quantum physics in the garden or something.  Then, in the 1877 score, the pas de six starts. All solos apparently.  Nice music, but it would just make Act III way too long, combined with the national dances.  And the original conception of the Danse Russe was to have Odile dance it, while Siegfried and Benno confer on how much she looks like Odette.

[cubanmiamiboy]

Mel Johnson, on Aug 13 2007, 02:15 PM, said:

Siegfried actually does dance with the fiancée-candidates, two at a time, during their introductory waltz.

I would have left the fiancees variations and their strong logical sense and meaning of their characters  in the storyline rather than the national dances, which i really don't care about too much...(forgive me Petipa! ).  I would also      
(   )have preserved the russian dance and its sensual cadenza for Odile as a way to catch Siegfried attention before the PDD.  The TPDD would have stayed as well.  

Mel Johnson, on Aug 13 2007, 02:15 PM, said:

Then S. takes off with O., presumably to talk about quantum physics in the garden or something.

[carbro]

cubanmiamiboy, on Aug 13 2007, 03:00 PM, said:

I would have left the fiancees variations and their strong logical sense and meaning of their characters  in the storyline rather than the national dances, which i really don't care about too much...(forgive me Petipa! ).

If S. has no interest in any of them, why should we?  Do you really think this adds to the story?

Quote

I would also       (   )have preserved the russian dance and its sensual cadenza for Odile as a way to catch Siegfried attention before the PDD.

I like the Russian Dance, too, and wish it had been preserved.  Martins uses it, but I don't care for his version -- it's unmusical and doesn't fit the rest of the Act, IMO.

[cubanmiamiboy]

Hi carbro:
Does it adds...?...Well...the fiancees contest WAS  PART OF THE STORY SINCE IT WAS FIRST CONCEIVED ...Giselle wasn't interested in Hilarion neither, and he's still there, so is  Abderrakhan in "Raymonda", and so on...Besides, isn't the ballroom scene a party FOR S. TO PICK A WIFE AMONG...EEHH...SOME PROSPECTIVES ...?...Only one candidate, (the lady in black), doesn't  sound right to me, and leaves S. with very few choices...(forgive me, again, Petipa ).  I just don't like the fact that the storyline was somehow altered for the 1895 revival, and the whole concept changed from "picking a wife in the ballroom  a la Cinderella" to "here comes Odile, which S. is gonna choose right away no matter what"...It looks forced to me. This is all even without getting into the subject of omission of some beautiful music, "Andante con molto" included.

[rg]

wiley has little to say about the  PAS DE SIX.
his translation of the poster for the first production in 1877 lists "In the third act:"
number 13 [as in the 13th number in the whole ballet up to this point, according the moscow poster] "Mlle Karpakova I, students Savitskaya, Mikhailova, Dmitrieva, Vinogradova, and Mr. Gillert II - PAS DE SIX." TCHAIKOVSKY BALLETS, p. 343
part of the confusion over the history of the ballet comes, i suspect, from the fact that no. 17 in the 1877 score, originally named "Scene - arrival of guests and waltz" was renamed in 1895 to become "Waltz of the prospective brides" thus making for much confusion when considering the '77 score and it's no. 19 - i.e. the PAS DE SIX in question here - which is variously described in the notes to 20th recordings as "variations for the visiting Princesses"
i've heard a number of people familiar with burmeister's 1953 staging of SWAN LAKE [see below] often refer to his use of the PAS DE SIX music the 'pas des financees' even tho' petipa, after cutting this Pas altogether called the earlier number, the 'scene' (no. 17), his 'waltz of the perspective brides'
as the '77 poster notes that both karpakova I (probably as odile?) and gillert II (as siegfried) were intended to take part in this pas/6, along w/ four student dancers. just what all this was meant to indicate of the plot, and what characters these students were meant to represent, is unknown so far as current SWAN LAKE scholarship has it.

Swan lake Original title: Lebedinoe ozero. Chor: Vladimir Burmeister (Acts I, III, IV) and Petr Gusev (Act II) after Ivanov and Petipa; mus: Petr Chaikovskii; lib: Vladimir Begichev and Vasilii Gel'tzer; scen: A. Lushin; cos: E. Arkhangel'skaia. First perf: Moscow, Stanislavskii and Nemirovich-Danchenko Musical Theater, Apr 25, 1953, Stanislavskii and Nemirovich-Danchenko Musical Theater Ballet.//First perf by Paris Opera Ballet: Opéra, Dec 21, 1960. Scen & cos: Dimitri Bouchène.

[cubanmiamiboy]

rg, on Aug 13 2007, 09:19 PM, said:

wiley has little to say about the  PAS DE SIX.
his translation of the poster for the first production in 1877 lists "In the third act:"
number 13 [as in the 13th number in the whole ballet up to this point, according the moscow poster] "Mlle Karpakova I, students Savitskaya, Mikhailova, Dmitrieva, Vinogradova, and Mr. Gillert II - PAS DE SIX." TCHAIKOVSKY BALLETS, p. 343
part of the confusion over the history of the ballet comes, i suspect, from the fact that no. 17 in the 1877 score, originally named "Scene - arrival of guests and waltz" was renamed in 1895 to become "Waltz of the prospective brides" thus making for much confusion when considering the '77 score and it's no. 19 - i.e. the PAS DE SIX in question here - which is variously described in the notes to 20th recordings as "variations for the visiting Princesses"
i've heard a number of people familiar with burmeister's 1953 staging of SWAN LAKE [see below] often refer to his use of the PAS DE SIX music the 'pas des financees' even tho' petipa, after cutting this Pas altogether called the earlier number, the 'scene' (no. 17), his 'waltz of the perspective brides'
as the '77 poster notes that both karpakova I (probably as odile?) and gillert II (as siegfried) were intended to take part in this pas/6, along w/ four student dancers. just what all this was meant to indicate of the plot, and what characters these students were meant to represent, is unknown so far as current SWAN LAKE scholarship has it.

Swan lake Original title: Lebedinoe ozero. Chor: Vladimir Burmeister (Acts I, III, IV) and Petr Gusev (Act II) after Ivanov and Petipa; mus: Petr Chaikovskii; lib: Vladimir Begichev and Vasilii Gel'tzer; scen: A. Lushin; cos: E. Arkhangel'skaia. First perf: Moscow, Stanislavskii and Nemirovich-Danchenko Musical Theater, Apr 25, 1953, Stanislavskii and Nemirovich-Danchenko Musical Theater Ballet.//First perf by Paris Opera Ballet: Opéra, Dec 21, 1960. Scen & cos: Dimitri Bouchène.

Thank you, Mr. R.G for your always wonderful explanations.

[Dancecreature]

The whole Pas de Six has a very beautiful music (that is really never played in many productions). I find though the Variation II is way to long for a variation (solo piece). I see it more as a pas d'action where Odile tries to convince that she is the swan princess he loves. This piece also has a oboe melody that one can relat to the Odette. That is my own interpretation.

[cubanmiamiboy]

I was digging a bit on this thread, as I've been looking for productions which have tried to retain the 77 score in its original acts.  So about this 6 variations-(including the "Andante con Moto" one)-is it definitive that they have not been used in the Ballroom act of any current Company...?

[Mme. Hermine]

i couldn't find a link to listen, but assuming this is the music used by jack carter for his ballet "pas des fiancees"?

[Helene]

cubanmiamiboy, on Aug 13 2007, 12:00 PM, said:

Mel Johnson, on Aug 13 2007, 02:15 PM, said:

Siegfried actually does dance with the fiancée-candidates, two at a time, during their introductory waltz.

I would have left the fiancees variations and their strong logical sense and meaning of their characters  in the storyline rather than the national dances, which i really don't care about too much...(forgive me Petipa! ).  I would also      
(   )have preserved the russian dance and its sensual cadenza for Odile as a way to catch Siegfried attention before the PDD.  The TPDD would have stayed as well.  

In many productions I've seen, Siegfried's "friends" from Act I appear as fiances in Act III.  I was hoping Tomasson's production would extend the logic, but he took Kudelka's fork in the road, and made the lead women of the national dances the princesses.  Kudelka's take was political:  the men and the women were divided, with the men at the back, and each princess stood on a box with a small curtain in front of her and had a pimp/handler who let the men in to see their purchases, as if the women were in a market.  Tomasson's came out of thin air, as only the Russian emphasized the woman, and the women didn't seem very royal.  

I agree that keeping the Russian for Odile would have made dramatic sense, and then, musically, the original Black Swan pas de deux music would also have slotted in nicely.  I never liked the "flash" of the Black Swan Pas de Deux.  

carbro, on Aug 13 2007, 01:25 PM, said:

If S. has no interest in any of them, why should we?  Do you really think this adds to the story?

Dramatically, this leads to the crisis in most productions:  the clock is ticking, the Queen Mother is about to slap him in public, and Odile/von Rothbart appear just in the nick of time.  From a psychological point of view, it gives one reason why he could be tricked, since he is under intense pressure and is desperate.

[emilienne]

Parts of the Pas de six were used for Benno and the prospective fiancées in Wright's production of Swan Lake (you can see this in the Royal Swedish Ballet's DVD release).  However, it was mixed up with rather a lot of other music to make for a looooong third act...