cubanmiamiboy Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 (edited) On 7/7/2023 at 10:23 AM, abatt said: The most disturbing thing in this article was that he decided to throw Calvin under the bus to suggest that he was promoted due to his skin color. I sort of like the idea that he's using a word many can't seem to accept as a reality: QUOTA. If you're a minority in today's America, you SHOULD ask yourself if you're being part of a quota at your job place without being told you are. Edited August 12, 2023 by cubanmiamiboy Link to comment
On Pointe Posted August 13, 2023 Share Posted August 13, 2023 22 hours ago, cubanmiamiboy said: I sort of like the idea that he's using a word many can't seem to accept as a reality: QUOTA. If you're a minority in today's America, you SHOULD ask yourself if you're being part of a quota at your job place without being told you are. By that logic, if you are white, you should ask yourself how many minority employees were passed over so that you could help maintain the majority status at your job. Your assumption is that ALL minority dancers are hired according to some grand numerical scheme. Please be reminded that for most ballet companies in this country, until recently, there were NO Black dancers, at any level. Apparently the "QUOTA" was zero. Link to comment
Helene Posted August 13, 2023 Share Posted August 13, 2023 From his piece, I got the impression that he'd already asked and answered that question, based on what he perceives as his treatment in ABT, because once part of a quota, management can think they've done enough for your career simply by hiring you and putting your picture in the brochure. I was looking at the PNB roster the other day after one of my favorite corps members posted on Instagram that she wasn't returning and I think all of last year's apprentices are now in the corps. (I don't have a printed program to check to see whether that happened last season.) PNB had gradually increased the number of Asian/Asian-American dancers over time, which does represent a significant part of the area's (PNW's) history, the good and the as ugly as it gets short of slavery,, but when I looked at the 2023 roster, and I might be off by one or two, Of the 23 corps members, seven are Black, four are Asian, and three are Latina/e/o/x, 14/23 or 61% Of the 10 Soloists, one is Black/Latina/e/o/x, two are Latina/e/o/x, and three are Asian. (I'm not sure how another Soloist identifies.) So 6/10 or 60% Of the 11 Principals, one is Black and two are Asian. 3/11 or 27% Aside from race, two dancers are self-identified as non-binary, and one performs pointe roles regularly. Over half (52%) of the company is POC, mostly American, ie, not hired from where they were a majority during their training, and mostly in the last five years, through outside hires, but also, significantly, through the school. I'm not sure how many were young enough to have started dancing because Misty Copeland's became as famous as she is now. So when I hear, "There aren't any POC dancers who are good enough, and we have to wait a decade until two make it through the vigourous process of training," I just look at the company in front of me and shake my head. Total props to Peter Boal. I'm just glad I'm here and have the privilege to see it. Link to comment
On Pointe Posted August 13, 2023 Share Posted August 13, 2023 I give Peter Boal and PNB no props whatsoever. Up until a year ago or so, there was only one Black male dancer connected to the school, and one Black female dancer with very light skin. All of a sudden they "discover" all these talented Black dancers who should have been in the system years ago. Two of the Black male dancers are so gender non-conforming they are virtually unemployable in most classical companies, and their sudden appearance in PNB is essentially stunt casting. (I'd bet they would not waste company resources on two similar white male dancers, but America has a sick fascination with unmasculine Black men who are way over-represented in the culture.) However my comment initially was in response to the notion that ANY minority employee should waste even one second wondering if their employment is because of some imaginary quota system, because of course "white" is the default setting for all that is good and competent, and they couldn't possibly be hired because they are actually talented and prepared. What arrogant nonsense. Link to comment
Helene Posted August 13, 2023 Share Posted August 13, 2023 24 minutes ago, On Pointe said: Two of the Black male dancers are so gender non-conforming they are virtually unemployable in most classical companies, and their sudden appearance in PNB is essentially stunt casting. (I'd bet they would not waste company resources on two similar white male dancers, but America has a sick fascination with unmasculine Black men who are way over-represented in the culture.) I don't think I've ever seen Zsilas Michael Hughes in anything but a role that is generally cast with a man. Ashton Edwards danced one of the greatest Puck's I've ever seen, and I don't think anyone who'd never seen them dance before or hadn't heard about them would ever have guessed that they danced on point. Nor do I think they would have guessed from watching them dance male, non-point corps roles. Link to comment
On Pointe Posted August 14, 2023 Share Posted August 14, 2023 I don't like seeing Black men in tutus, red lipstick and pointe shoes. Not unless they're performing with the Trocks and everybody presents that way. (And especially because ONLY Black men in PNB are allowed or encouraged to be cast and photographed that way. That's suspect as hell.). But while I am curious as to how Ashton Edwards handles his long braids when he isn't dancing female roles, my comment wasn't primarily about him or Zsilas Michael Hughes. It was aimed at the insulting notion that minority dancers should ask themselves if their hiring is about filling a quota. Why? If white dancers have the privilege of assuming that they are hired because of their abilities, black dancers should be able to feel the same way about themselves. Link to comment
BalanchineFan Posted September 25, 2023 Share Posted September 25, 2023 On 8/12/2023 at 4:01 PM, cubanmiamiboy said: I sort of like the idea that he's using a word many can't seem to accept as a reality: QUOTA. If you're a minority in today's America, you SHOULD ask yourself if you're being part of a quota at your job place without being told you are. Why would we do that? Would that imply anything about our worth? Link to comment
cubanmiamiboy Posted October 6, 2023 Share Posted October 6, 2023 (edited) On 9/25/2023 at 5:57 PM, BalanchineFan said: Why would we do that? Would that imply anything about our worth? Why not...? Edited October 8, 2023 by cubanmiamiboy Link to comment
Helene Posted October 7, 2023 Share Posted October 7, 2023 You're welcome to discuss your take on an issue here, but not to discuss each other. Link to comment
cubanmiamiboy Posted October 7, 2023 Share Posted October 7, 2023 Thank you, Helene. So back to Gabe....I know many think he's hallucinating and what he's saying is purely a "ghost issue". A product of his imagination. I happen to believe he's right. Link to comment
Helene Posted October 7, 2023 Share Posted October 7, 2023 I think that both things can be true: he may not be as good as he thinks he is, and the reason he hasn't had the career he wants isn't because of that. Link to comment
cubanmiamiboy Posted October 7, 2023 Share Posted October 7, 2023 7 minutes ago, Helene said: I think that both things can be true: he may not be as good as he thinks he is, and the reason he hasn't had the career he wants isn't because of that. That's quite a clever way to address his suspicions, IMO ..😎 In any case....he went totally opposite of Copeland Street... Link to comment
nanushka Posted October 7, 2023 Author Share Posted October 7, 2023 (edited) Well if he’s not as good as he thinks he is, it seems safe to suspect that’s at least part of the reason he hasn’t had the career he wants. I certainly agree that his race may have been a significant strike against his becoming an ABT prince; his height was likely another. But he also consistently failed to meet the expectations of the roles he was given, as many on this board have observed over the years. Edited October 7, 2023 by nanushka Link to comment
cubanmiamiboy Posted October 7, 2023 Share Posted October 7, 2023 (edited) 50 minutes ago, nanushka said: But he also consistently failed to meet the expectations of the roles he was given, as many in this board have observed over the years. Edited: Reminder to myself "Keep your mouth shut, Christian...!" Edited October 7, 2023 by cubanmiamiboy Link to comment
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