Not knowing ballet history (even last week's)?

[bart]

On another thread, One discussing "danseur noble" and other categories used to describe dancers, Michael posted the following:

In NYCB terms, one speaks of the Farrell rep or the Hayden rep, or the Le Clerq rep, instead of using classical vocabulary.

I thought: A great idea (partly because I do it all the time). Then I recalled the following incident that occurred in my adult ballet class (at a reputable company school, which has graduated professional dancers but is not really pre-professional) just last week.

Me: "You should have seen how fast Julio Bocca did chaine turns last week.."

Teacher: "Who?"

Me: "Julio Bocca. The principal at ABT. .... From Argentina? .... Was in town last week with his show Boccatango???"

Teacher: "I'm not familiar with him."

Imagine the response if I'd said "a Verdy dancer" or "Melissa Hayden's rep" or "a Merrill Ashley type". "reminds me of Eric Bruhn". (Suzanne Farrell is an exception; most people at the school seem to have heard (at least) of her. And Nureyev and Baryshnikov. And Pavlova. Not Nijinsky, though.)

So many people involved in ballet outside the main urban centers seem to know little of the history of the art, even its recent history. Nor -- and this surprises me -- do they seem to feel that this is a liability.

Anyone else have experiences like this? Is it a problem for ballet? What, if anything, can be done.

[Pamela Moberg]

Amen, Bart,

Yes, there is much ignorance about, sad to say. You ask what can be done. Nothing, I am afraid, says one who has tried to educate people on the subject.

What is even worse, to my mind, is when people boast of their ignorance.

When they ought to feel ashamed.

[fandeballet]

When it comes to history, it is not just ballet that has a problem! 30 years ago we had the Arab oil embargo. Cars in the US finally started to become more fuel efficicient. But the price never went back down to 35 cents a gallon again! We went back to bigger cars-SUVs- and the price for us went thru the roof!!!!

To get back to ballet.........the best I could say is to read up on and view videos and documentaries on ballet and dance in general. And then branch out from there and see where dance, and the arts in general, are affected by the society and the events of the day.

But, when we get down to it, how many folks, and not just the young ones, have the sense to research and take interest in history of any type????????

[Mel Johnson]

The only thing that men and institutions learn from history is that men and institutions learn nothing from history.

[bart]

I've heard that one but don't buy it. The statement refers to those who draw simple minded parallels between the present and selected events in the past, and then justify their own policies by appealing to the "lessons of history."

But I am talking about those who do not know history at all -- or know only the most simplistic version of it. Isn't there also a bromide to the effect that "those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it"?

I think that with any art, as with life itself, knowing the past adds immeasurably to what one experiences and can accomplish in the present. And, for those of us who feel strongly that our lives are chapters in a long line of previous generations, knowing something about the past adds dignity and significance to our place in the "present." And gives us something to pass on to the young.

How, for instance, can you appreciate Balanchine ballet without having some idea of the imperial Russian and other cultures that they are based on an comment on?

How can you appreciate Tharp and Morris (the more balletic stuff) ,or Wheeldon, without having some idea of Balanchine?

And how -- returning to the ballet class experience I described -- can you aim at the highest standards of any art without having experienced, even on video, the performances of those artists who come closest to the ideal?

[JaneD]

A good few years back, during an interval at Covent Garden, a stranger approached me (presumably because I was holding a programme) and asked "Who was that just dancing? Was it anyone special?"

Until that point, I would have though ANYONE would have recognised Rudolf Nureyev!

Jane

[zerbinetta]

The content of this thread really is disturbing, isn't it? In a ballet history context &, moreso, in a world history context. So much information is readily available on the web. When watching "Rome" last year, I realized I needed a refresher course in the Octavius era & googled. An enormous amount of historical info was available.

But one needs to care enough to do the easy research.

[dnznqueen]

yes, yes, it is all so disconcerting, especially as a dancer...it is important to know the history of what you are doing. it infuriates me now to hear fellow dancers talk about current stars as if they are the living end, not realizing the notables that have paved the way for them. or to listen to them critique ballets and have no idea of their (the ballets') historical context. i don't know if there is anything that can be done...just keep educating and pray something comes of it i guess

[Helene]

Maybe I'm being a bit too optimistic, but I'm hoping that when the translation of Alexander Meinertz' biography of Vera Volkova is published, that more people will understand how the roots of classical Russian style branched and influenced great dancers of the Royal Ballet and Royal Danish Ballet. Hopefully that will include some dancers.

[zerbinetta]

Hmm .. it would be nice to think so, wouldn't it? But if the young aren't reading on their laptops, they aren't reading, period. They certainly can't spell, to say nothing of the proliferation of apostrophes in inappropriate places (my fave peeve).

[sandik]

Maybe I'm being a bit too optimistic, but I'm hoping that when the translation of Alexander Meinertz' biography of Vera Volkova is published, that more people will understand how the roots of classical Russian style branched and influenced great dancers of the Royal Ballet and Royal Danish Ballet.  Hopefully that will include some dancers.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Those of us that read it will learn a great deal, and perhaps, eventually, some of it will be distributed to the population at large.

I've taught dance history in a couple of different college programs, and every time was a bit non-plussed to realize that in many cases this was going to be the only college-level history course a student would be taking. And that for more than a few of them, they hadn't had that much history in high school. I know it's dangerous to see the whole world through your own particular specialty, but this made me very sad, and I wound up trying to insert as much general history in my syllabi as I could, in part to ground the art form in the world around it, but also in part to help fill in the blanks for the students.

[Mel Johnson]

I've heard that one but don't buy it.  (snip) Isn't there also a bromide to the effect that "those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it"?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But then, you're not a public historian who gets the same damn dumb questions from the same damn dumb office every four years.

The "men and institutions" phrase is a paraphrase of Nietzsche, and the "doomed" phrase is paraphrase often attributed to George Santayana of a line in Hegel, having to do with "similar contexts produce similar results", one crucial part of dialecticism.

[kfw]

So many people involved in ballet outside the main urban centers seem to know little of the history of the art, even its recent history.  Nor -- and this surprises me -- do they seem to feel that this is a liability

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

bart, the more history, the better, I agree. But a liability for what? If they're outside the cities where the major ballet troupes make their homes, chances are they're relative beginners, no? As such they're amateurs in the original sense of the word: lovers. They derive inspiration from the main things, the movement and the music. If people unfamiliar with the art at its greatest love it nonetheless, isn't that a sign that the state of the art is vital and inspirational?

[Mme. Hermine]

I recall being at SAB, where there were (don't know about now) busts of Balanchine and Kirstein at the entrance, and a girl who was a student there saying she didn't know who Lincoln Kirstein was.