Estelle

The Cranko version was in the POB's repertory in the early 1980s (I remember some really cute photos of Michael Denard as Romeo ), but now their "standard" version is Nureyev's, and Cranko's version isn't performed any longer. However, I believe it is in the repertory of the Ballet de Toulouse.

atm, the main dancer in that video is Ana Laguna, a Spanish dancer who is Mats Ek's wife, and has premiered many of his ballets. I saw her on stage once, a few years ago in Lyon, guesting with the Ballet de Lyon in Ek's "Carmen", and while I was not fully convinced by that work, I really found her wonderful, in her very special style. Also, what did you think of Yvan Auzely (who danced Hilarion in the video)? I saw him once in Lyon in that role (with the Cullberg Ballet), and he had so much stage presence he eclipsed Albrecht and almost Giselle too! I respectfully disagree with Pamela about Ek's works (I like some of them, and especially his "Giselle"), but agree that there should be no confusion between real ballet and modern versions, and that it's a pity that some part of the audience might think they're shown real ballet while it's not...

I am among the unlucky people who haven't seen any of those ladies, and can only reply "all of them (plus Spessivtseva, Chauviré, and quite a lot of others). But perhaps if I had to choose one, it'd be Karsavina because it'd be also be an opportunity to see the premieres of great Ballets Russes works, and to see Nijinsky and Massine (and also Cecchetti as the Charlatan in "Petrouchka"). Morris Neighbor, I think that such polls are not to be taken too seriously And nobody is asked to "judge" or "compare" those dancers, but just to say if they especially regret not seeing someone... Perhaps a less controversial poll would have been to ask people to choose between, say, Taglioni, Elssler, Grahn, Grisi, Legnani and Brianza, since I believe no member of this board has had a long enough life to see any of them! ;)

Perhaps there should be shared contracts between ABT and NYCB: one season here, one season there? ;)

Thanks for your reviews, Jeannie! It's great to be able to know what is happening in Saint-Petersburg, and there are so many bright Russian dancers who are not known in the West... Also it's nice to know that Lifar still is performed somewhere (and that "Suite en blanc" solo is lovely indeed).

Isn't it a bit unusual for a principal dancer of a company to be hired only as a soloist in another company?

Mel, I don't understand well your comment about "American xenophobia". It was French critics who were so harsh with Degas' sculpture (from what I've read, it seems that it shocked partly because it was "too realistic"...) And yes, it probably was a period when physiognomony was fashionable. Probably also it was a period when ballet dancers had rather bad reputations (with greedy old men going to the foyer de la danse, etc.) and so the "petits rats" weren't well considered either? Actually, several of Degas' paitings aren't especially flattering...

Leigh, thanks for the information! Actually the information I have is not exhaustive: there is a list of the POB graduates who entered the company since 1975 in one of the school program's brochure, and I also have some partial biographies of dancers... Branca isn't in the list, but perhaps it is just a mistake. Also, some dates are a bit misleading because there are a few dancers who first became "surnuméraires", and then became full company members only some time later, and the listed date is the second one. When comparing the figures, it seems that the average stay in the company (and probably also the average age) is much higher for the POB than for NYCB and for ABT. Some senior POB dancers aren't very present, either because of injuries, or for some female dancers because of pregnancies (there are some female sujets with 2 or 3 children), but on the whole most are active. And for example in the recent performance of "Violin Concerto" that I saw, the 8 female corps de ballet dancers had entered the company before 1996, and 5 of them before 1988. Probably it has an influence on the style of the corps de ballet, as they are used so much to dancing together (for example, among the sujets Sciaux, Kudo, Martel, Talon, Wiart and Ziegler all had entered the company in 1986, so it means that they've been dancing together for 16 years, plus some more years in the school). On the other hand, as the retirement rate is low, there are not many opportunities to go up in the hierarchy... It'd be interested to have similar figures for companies like the Royal Ballet, the Royal Danish Ballet, the Kirov, the Bolshoi, etc.

Thanks for the information, AmandaNYC! It's great to be informed so quickly, I guess it will take months before it is announced in French dance magazines. An anecdote: Sébastien Marcovici had danced in the 1993 program of the POB school... the same year as Laetitia Pujol, who has just been promoted to principal in Paris.

In case someone is interested in similar statistics about the POB (there are five categories in the corps de ballet, so it's a bit more complicated). There is a total of 153 dancers now. -10 principals 4 women who joined the company in 1979 (Maurin), 1987 (Letestu), 1989 (Dupont), 1993 (Pujol) 6 men who joined the company in 1979 (Hilaire), 1988 (Belarbi, Legris)), 1988 (Bart, Le Riche, Martinez) all of them spent some time at the POB school, but Pujol studied mostly at the Besso dance academy in Toulouse, and Martinez and Rosella Hightower's school in Cannes, both spent only one year at the POB school after winning the prix de Lausanne -14 premiers danseurs 8 women (joined the company in 1979, 1981, 1984, 1988 (2), 1990, 1991, 1996) 6 men (joined the company in 1979, 1983, 1988, 1992, 1993, 1994) As far as I know, all of them were mostly POB trained, except Clairemarie Osta who studied mostly at the Paris Conservatoire. -41 sujets 22 women (joined the company in 1981, 1983, 1984 (2), 1985 (4), 1986 (5), 1989, 1990, 1991 (2), 1992, 1994, 1996, 1998) all of them POB trained except, it seems, Muriel Halle and Cecile Sciaux 19 men (joined the company in 1974, 1976 (2), 1979, 1984 (2), 1986 (3), 1988, 1989, 1990 (2), 1992 (2), 1993, 1995(2), 1998) all of them POB trained except perhaps Laurent Queval (in the company since 1974- the most senior dancer of the company, and still very active in character roles!) but I'm not sure, Herve Dirmann (1976), and Alessio Carbone (1998). -33 coryphees 18 women (since 1981, 1982, 1984, 1987 (2), 1989, 1991(3), 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1997, 1999 (2), 2000, and for one I don't know but it must be after 1997) all of the POB trained except perhaps Florence Branca (1982) and Karine Villagrassa. 15 men (since 1978, 1981 (2), 1983, 1985, 1988, 1990, 1991, 1994, 1996 (2), 1997 (2), 1998) all of them POB trained -53 quadrilles 31 women (since 1977, 1985, 1986, 1988, 1989 (2), 1990, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997 (4), 1998 (6), 1999 (3), 2000 (3), 2001 (3), plus one that I don't know but it's probably 2000 or 2001) 22 men (since 1985, 1989 (2), 1990, 1993 (2), 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999 (2), 2000 (3), 2001 (4) plus three others I don't know) all of them POB trained except Francisco Vantaggio, Simone Valastro (both from Italy) and Yong-Geol Kim (from Korea). -some apprentices and "surnuméraires" (dancers with temporary contracts) but I don't know how many. Having careers of more than 20 years isn't especially rare at the POB. On the whole, careers seem to be longer than at ABT and NYCB (even though some of the dancers who are listed don't dance much in fact), and slower. When searching for those figures, I noticed that there were some exceptional years for the school, like 1979 (the 8 dancers they hired were Pietragalla, Maurin, Arbo, Hilaire (principals), Averty, Romoli, Vu-An (premiers danseurs), and Darde (sujet)) or 1988-89 (it included Martinez, Bart, Dupont, Le Riche, Osta, Bridard, Duquenne, Baey, Phavorin...)

I found some information on the following page: http://www.buehrle.ch/index.asp?lang=f&id_pic=50 it doesn't mention the original model, but it includes a photograph. Also there's some information (in French) at the end of the following page: http://www.musee-orsay.fr:8081/ORSAY/orsay...d7?OpenDocument It says that the model which is shown in the Musée d'Orsay is a bronze statue made after Degas' death after an original version in wax which is shown in a US museum (probably the one you saw?) and that, when it was shown in 1881, it caused a scandal because of its "real" hair, costume and shoes, and that some critics found that the girl's forehead and its lips showed her "deeply vicious character" (!).

Mel, there was indeed a Paris Opera Ballet dancer called Solange Schwarz, but I doubt it was her who was Degas's model: she was born in 1910 (she eventually became a principal dancer, created several important Lifar works, and died a few years ago), and I think that Degas' statue was made much earlier. But she was from a family of dancers, for example her aunt Jeanne was a prominent POB dancer too, so perhaps it was another Schwarz? Next season, the POB ballet master Patrice Bart will create a ballet called "La petite danseuse de Degas" at the POB, based on the life of Degas' model. I don't remember well the few things I had read about it, but will try to find some information. I remember seeing (but it was long ago) a statue of young dancer by Degas in a Paris museum, I think it was the musee d'Orsay but am not sure. So it seems that there are several copies of that statue, or several statues with similar themes.

http://www.lemonde.fr/article/0,5987,3246-...278085-,00.html An article about it by Dominique Frétard in "Le Monde" (in French). It also mentions that it might be possible that the city theater of Wuppertal (home of Pina Bausch's company) might have to be closed within one or two years for financial reasons.

Thanks Kate, this is interesting! It'd be interested to compare with other big companies. And do you know some some statistics about the average age of dancers in each company, for example? I don't have the figures at hand for the POB, but the corps de ballet is quite larger, and I think a larger proportion of the company has been there since 1999 (actually many of the sujets were already there in 1990...)

katharine, the discussion on ballet.co.uk is interesting indeed, but there's also a discussion on the same topic on this forum, at: http://www.balletalert.com/forum/showthrea...=&threadid=5332

I agree with that. The "why are women so thin" is a question I've heard several time from (well-meaning) people who had attended their first ballet; for example I remember attending a perfomance of a Lyon Conservatoire with a friend and her boyfriend, and his first reaction at the intermission was "but they are so sick! Are you sure they're healthy? It's worrying to watch them." while my friend and I, who were more experienced hadn't thought about it... Also among your initial questions, I think that there are some which are related to the art form itself ("what makes ballet relevant?"), and some others with the organization of companies etc. ("why are there so few minorities?") and the answers are different. A bit like my field of research, mathematics: asking if mathematics are relevant/ useful is a criticism of mathematics itself, while asking why there is less than 20% of women among the French mathematicians is IMO a valid question (but the fact that some changes might help doesn't mean that mathematics itself is bad). vagansmom, I agree that some people criticize some aspects of ballet while accepting the same things for art... That's one of the reasons of my question "Is Mozart relevant?". I think that, in France, ballet isn't generally as "high art" as much as classical music, painting or literature, and so people criticize it more easily... Leigh, I agree also that it's good to insist on the positive aspects of a work. Because convincing people that works of the past don't have to be judged by today's standards isn't enough to make them feel like seeing it... For example, a few years ago I had tried to read some novels by the Frnech novelist Henry de Monfreid, but found them awfully racist and colonialist, I realized that part of it could be explained by the fact that it had been written in the 1930s, but the book was so unappealing to me that I didn't finish it; on the other hand one of my favorite novelists is the Hungarish author Gyula Krudy, though I do find some of his books misogynic, there is so much else to enjoy in his works that it's enough for me to appreciate them. So for example when some people tell me "but the plots of ballet works are stupid, they're simplistic fairy tales", instead of trying to convince them that fairy tales can be great I try to convince them to see a non-fairy tale ballet, or to enjoy some other aspects of fairy-tale ballets like the musicality, the great technique of the dancers, etc. (hoping that, if they get attracted to ballet enough, they might reconsider their initial views).

I agree with that. The "why are women so thin" is a question I've heard several time from (well-meaning) people who had attended their first ballet; for example I remember attending a perfomance of a Lyon Conservatoire with a friend and her boyfriend, and his first reaction at the intermission was "but they are so sick! Are you sure they're healthy? It's worrying to watch them." while my friend and I, who were more experienced hadn't thought about it... Also among your initial questions, I think that there are some which are related to the art form itself ("what makes ballet relevant?"), and some others with the organization of companies etc. ("why are there so few minorities?") and the answers are different. A bit like my field of research, mathematics: asking if mathematics are relevant/ useful is a criticism of mathematics itself, while asking why there is less than 20% of women among the French mathematicians is IMO a valid question (but the fact that some changes might help doesn't mean that mathematics itself is bad). vagansmom, I agree that some people criticize some aspects of ballet while accepting the same things for art... That's one of the reasons of my question "Is Mozart relevant?". I think that, in France, ballet isn't generally as "high art" as much as classical music, painting or literature, and so people criticize it more easily... Leigh, I agree also that it's good to insist on the positive aspects of a work. Because convincing people that works of the past don't have to be judged by today's standards isn't enough to make them feel like seeing it... For example, a few years ago I had tried to read some novels by the Frnech novelist Henry de Monfreid, but found them awfully racist and colonialist, I realized that part of it could be explained by the fact that it had been written in the 1930s, but the book was so unappealing to me that I didn't finish it; on the other hand one of my favorite novelists is the Hungarish author Gyula Krudy, though I do find some of his books misogynic, there is so much else to enjoy in his works that it's enough for me to appreciate them. So for example when some people tell me "but the plots of ballet works are stupid, they're simplistic fairy tales", instead of trying to convince them that fairy tales can be great I try to convince them to see a non-fairy tale ballet, or to enjoy some other aspects of fairy-tale ballets like the musicality, the great technique of the dancers, etc. (hoping that, if they get attracted to ballet enough, they might reconsider their initial views).

Alas, the first line said "Reacciones ante su muerte", meaning "Reactions to his death"...

Do you mean "as a choreographer"? Because there have been several examples of female artistic directors, at least in Europe (Lefevre, Hightower and Verdy in Paris, Haydee in Stuttgart, Pietragalla in Marseille, Glushak in Toulouse, Terabust in Milan, Bjorn in Denmark and Finland, Gielgud in Denmark and in Australia... and also in the past Dame Ninette de Valois, of course). "Politically correct" isn't a common notion in French (here when people use "politiquement correct" it usually sounds negative, like "very conventional" or "hypocrit"...) but the questions Leigh asked are quite common. I've sometimes replied to "ballet is relevant" something like "is Mozart relevant?" (and often the people who ask such questions about ballet criticize classical music far less, perhaps because it's not narrative). Also, not so many people ask "why do basketball players have to be tall?" or "why do swimmers have to be tall with muscular shoulders?"... (Leigh, it seems that we posted at the same time )

Do you mean "as a choreographer"? Because there have been several examples of female artistic directors, at least in Europe (Lefevre, Hightower and Verdy in Paris, Haydee in Stuttgart, Pietragalla in Marseille, Glushak in Toulouse, Terabust in Milan, Bjorn in Denmark and Finland, Gielgud in Denmark and in Australia... and also in the past Dame Ninette de Valois, of course). "Politically correct" isn't a common notion in French (here when people use "politiquement correct" it usually sounds negative, like "very conventional" or "hypocrit"...) but the questions Leigh asked are quite common. I've sometimes replied to "ballet is relevant" something like "is Mozart relevant?" (and often the people who ask such questions about ballet criticize classical music far less, perhaps because it's not narrative). Also, not so many people ask "why do basketball players have to be tall?" or "why do swimmers have to be tall with muscular shoulders?"... (Leigh, it seems that we posted at the same time )

"The financially strapped council apparently thinks it would save about £4 million by closing the ballet, and another £3 million by closing TAT." From that point of view, it sounds a little bit like what happened in recent years in several French cities (for example Nancy), except that in France it were traditional ballet companies which were replaced with (smaller) modern ones... I wonder why the officials in Frankfurt think that having a "classical story-ballet company" would be cheaper than Forsythe's company (especially if you have to build everything from zero)? I wonder if all that had been a predictable problem for a while: I remember that, around 1998, when Roland Petit left the Ballet de Marseille, Forsythe had bee one of the candidates for the direction of the company, which looked a bit surprising at that moment, as Petit's company was more classical than his (but there were also modern French choreographers like Regine Chopinot, and it was believed that most of the candidates were interested only in the fact that Marseille was the second most subsidized company in France...) I'm not especially a fan of Forsythe, and can understand that probably some part of the population of Frankfurt would like to see some real classical ballet (and also if the company spends much time touring, perhaps the local audience isn't very much attached to the company). On the other hand, Forsythe is an important choreographer and it'd be a pity if he had no company of his own, and if the real motivation only is financial, there isn't much good to expect from it...

Giannina, I'll borrow one of your expressions: green green green

Stan, there's another discussion about that article in another part of the board: http://www.balletalert.com/forum/showthrea...=&threadid=5295

Hi Clarisse! Nice to see another poster from Paris It's a pity that the dancers didn't have more time to recover from jet lag before their performances...

Thanks for the information about Colau and Jourdain, Francoise. Do you know if they will leave only for one year (as Herve Courtain did this season, for example) or forever? It is a bit worrying to see that several dancers chose to leave the POB in the last few seasons...