papeetepatrick

I saw it once about 12 or so years ago, but don't remember any bullfighting. There's bullfighting in 'The Sun Also Rises', of course. 'Pandora' was one of those like Barefoot Contessa and Naked Maja that I wasn't that crazy about--she's glamorous, but those are mainly for those values. I like her better in 'Mogambo' and 'The killers' and 'Showboat'.

Good point, and to dirac's and my discussion about Lana Turner, I should add that Bette Davis praised her work as an actress in 'Cass Timberlane' and at least one other early picture I can't recall, but said that 'Lana was different from the rest of us, in that she was concerned with her image both onscreen and off. The rest of us were just doing our jobs and working to do our roles professionally within the films' (not good memory of the exact quote, and 20 years since I had that book). I always picked that up about her, and that's why seeing her in person was exactly the same as seeing her onscreen--it still looked like you were looking at a film, and I've never seen anything like this; certainly seeing Garbo in an old scruffy coat tromping about the East Side was not like looking at a film. I found her unique in this way and disappointing in other ways as a result of this--she had little sense of humour about herself (which I think points to extreme vanity), which her galpal Ava Gardner had in profusion, as did Dietrich. But I can easily see Hayworth as being perceived as glamorous too. Agree that some have it only onstage and onscreen, and some have it onstage and off. The queen of England has it all the time, as I see it. I think part of glamour for a long time has had to do with publicity and developing of singular images, so that while some glamour can also be 'secret glamour', as it were, and very obvious to any onlooker just by its irresistible magnetism, much of it has to do with knowing who the person is and the way a myth has been built around her--which doesn't mean it's purely artificial either, because this can then be built into the art as well, integrated into it, even though it was inserted from without. This is what I think happened to some degree with Suzanne Farrell, although she was born with that extraordinary body.

I think there's self-parody, but not self-delusion. This was an intelligent woman, who had written plays and gotten arrested for them, only to be inspired with what she saw in jail and write about that. Wrote scripts, had big power in Hollywood. I am sure she would say she was glamorous, and she ought to know.

Indeed it is, this was a genius in my book ....

You read my mind, kid. I saw Lana Turner in 1982 at Bloomingdale's signing her hideously written unrefined-verbal-skill autobiography, and it was as if the whole room were filled with Technicolor--without the benefit of film, as in the NBC, Proud as a Peacock. She had her hairdresser-escort Eric Root dye his hair to match hers exactly, and wore an extreme black point d'esprit dress. It was a kind of total exoticism that she'd spent her life cultivating, and yes, there are few Hollywood actresses more vulgar than she. I'll admit it was impressive, and glamour was certainly Lana's best asset once she got it going. And this is a perfect example of glamour purely in the service of vanity. On the other hand, Deborah Kerr has been written of as 'wearing her glamour so easily', and I agree that she is also glamorous, but not vulgar at all. However, she had a glossy look that was not always used for purposes of vanity, so I think most don't think of her as especially glamorous, but I do. The main thing we've discovered about glamour is that we have strong feelings about what the definition is and these feelings are interestingly rather hardened.

But isn't that what plumage evolution is all about, although perhaps more often in the male in the lower animals, casting a spell to charm the mate?

Well, yes...animals can't change the way they look unlike humans...Still, when I read about it, one came to my mind instantly as a glamorous one http://www.wonderfulinfo.com/amazing/wpeacock/pic01.gif vs. an elegant one... http://cache.virtualtourist.com/15192-Whit...-Whitehorse.jpg Very good, I agree on both, and earlier today had meant to say that I think horses are naturally the most glamorous of all animals, except cats can definitely be too. But peacocks, definitely, and even more so, Birds of Paradise and Lyrebirds. They have evolved these plumages which is like putting on makeup very slowly, as in eons.

McGilligan's book on Fritz Lang that I mentioned on the reading thread has a fair amount of stuff, too, Not the most specifically focussed on the other Germans, but there always being discussed in the tale of Lang. Otto Friedrich's City of Nets is also very good, but it's been a long time since I read it. It's about the 40s, and I can't remember how much it talks about German emigres, probably not as much as the others here, but definitely good. From late 80s I believe.

Totally agree, she is amazing in 'Diamonds', and while musical in 'Tzigane', it also needs someone a little more worldly, just as does the Striptease Girl.

Oh, good heavens yes there has to be 'some self-awareness of sexuality', which IMO she had IN SPADES, but I don't think there has to be a 'willingness to use it', which she most certainly would not, at least overtly or casually. I saw her more in the 70s-80s period, but by then it could show without management intrusion, of course. On the other hand, I can't speak much for the period in which you saw her, having seen only one performance toward the end of that period, but this may also have to do with our separate perceptions of what signifies 'sexuality' as well. This was a self-possessed sexuality if there ever was one, like Garbo's maybe, although I prefer Martha Graham's or Marlene Dietrich's approach if I do say so me-self. There is also one picture of her as a child of maybe 11, and she is already just exuding sensuality all over the place, I think it's one leaning to the side on her elbow, I forget now. So by now that makes at least two of us who see her that way.

Bart, yes, I like some of Cristian's observations too, and to you and dirac, add that glamour is not always a matter of 'sexual allure', although it often--and perhaps usually--is. I'm not exactly in the mood to say this, but Suzanne Farrell is unquestionably glamorous, even if she does not wish to 'exude sex' (at least consciously). The reason is that she had glamour even when she 'wasn't on' and even when she was dancing rather passionlessly, which definitely did happen. She is not sexy as the Striptease Girl IMO, but she IS glamorous, even in that, which I think one of her weakest roles. The glamour comes partially from having this slightly freakishness of long-limbedness, of elongation, that would make her seem even taller than she was--the limbs projected length as in a Parmigianino and other Mannerist figures. I don't always like it, but when she was passionate, the arms could be especially violent and every time this got going, she was totally hypnotic. Her real-life persona can seem a bit schoolgirl, but that's beside the point (except to say that she wasn't always glamorous, and didn't usually seem so offstage). And if she didn't have the glamour to begin with, Balanchine drew it out with a Faustian will, just as effectively as Louis B. Mayer, in a less lofty way, got Judy Holliday to lose weight and Lana Turner to take on her early-nymphomaniac look. The same for Fonteyn, who is utterly glamorous, beautiful, even though not with a body like Sizova which just throws off animal spirits with a carefree abandon that even upstaged Nureyev in that Corsaire film IMO (I've never seen THAT glamour-icon upstaged any other time. No wonder he wasn't exactly thrilled with sharing a flat with her...). Paul Parish once mentioned how much the young Fonteyn resembled the queen of England when still a princess. Yes. And the queen of England is glamorous. Anyone who has seen her in person knows that middle-cult wardrobe is a clever disguise--it's not easy to inhabit a lot of palaces these days, and she knows how to turn on the Royal Glamour quite as well as she uses that amusing 'royal wave' thing. Edited to add: I believe that was Harry Cohn for Judy Holliday and Mayer for Turner. Sorry, I'd forgotten who was so hateful to Judy.

Well, maybe so, and I definitely agree, but ALL the ladies I listed had GLAMOUR (I'll plump for the glamorous spelling...) I also think Glamour can be cultivated, just like other areas of talent. Hollywood history is fully of glamorization--plain faces painted that reveal something they definitely don't have without the makeup. Now I do agree Ava Gardner and Lena Horne have it, and most people think Rita Hayworth has it, but I don't see it that much--too vulnerable. Kim Novak and Marilyn Monroe had it, and without makeup too. Dietrich and Garbo had it, with no effort put toward it even though the former put much...In ballet, American standards of glamour don't always apply, which is why I think Sizova is a rare exception, with Hollywood looks although Russian. Glamour usually implies a kind of gloss and bigness. Carla Fracci's got tons of glam.

Oh dear, I think I may have been convinced, unlike Hans, that this is not worth watching even for free. It sounds veritably lugubious from some of the reports.

Definitely, and sometimes looked like Lee Radziwill without the several husbands, etc. But Sizova, as always, from the past (who was easily the prettiest as well as most great genius IMO) and also Aurelie Dupont now. I also think Makarova is sexy but not especially pretty. Edited to add: Since 'Appalachian Spring' is sometimes called 'Ballet for Martha' (if only in the concert version of the score), I'll stretch a little because I want to add Matt Turney, who is ravishing as well as profound as the Pioneer Woman in the old movie. She is the smoky-gorgeous black woman, I was reminded of her because bart mentioned the glorious Lena Horne, almost my favourite thing. Turney fully embodies the part of that character that are immortal. She is like this unimaginable combination of holiness and glamour at the same time.

Hilarious. Somehow put me in mind of Vanda Godsell telling Richard Harris in 'This Sporting Life', to 'Sit down, Frank' and then kissing him quite aggressively. This was an extraordinary performance by Ms. Godsell. The term 'informal socializing' was used for some of Vanda's habits in the film. On the other hand, this kind of fluff is not disturbing, sort of like an article on Joyce Wildenstein's cosmetic surgery in the Post or News.

Do we enjoy telepathy? Come to think about it, I've seen many Martins works live, and never cared for but one--this was the one he did for Patty McBride and Ib Anderson, I think it's Valse Triste with Sibelius music (correct me if I'm wrong). May have had more to do with those two sublime dancers, both so lovely. I dread Romeo Plus Juliet, but wouldn't miss it for the world.

http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/02/...as-web-journal/ Here's the current installment. I hope people will keep up on it and inform me about it if they want to, I may not have time to get to it every day. I didn't even finish Mr. Tommasini's things, but what I read were good.

Agree with this, and of course in HUAC they weren't turning in spies. I didn't say it quite right, but Powers's book (going to go find the title) did give the right perspective on viewing McCarthism, which is important if one wants the facts--in that the object really was there. From that book, I was surprised to find that many more of the CIA's operations were failures than I would have thought--only recently has it become obvious that they are far from omnipotent, but I used to think they could do anything, find anybody, etc. Also mentioned this because HUAC is often confused with McCarthy, although there may be nobody here who thinks they're the same. Had in common 'red-scare' and 1950s, but distinct. Of course, McCarthy's ineptitude led to his censure. Agree also it's not at all 'a nice thing to do', but can see why it must be terrifying to be in those positions when you haven't been up against super-powerful Govt. authority. Every time I think of Monica Lewinsky being taped by Linda Tripp and G-men coming around, you get that sense of being a mouse in the face of immense armour, and obviously that's what happened to Robbins. Probably some of the 'friendly witnesses' actually believed they were doing the right thing, but all this makes clear Robbins never forgave himself for what he had done. Edited to add: 'Intelligence Wars' is the name of this book, and one finds things like the British Intelligence Services (SIS) having made the greater intelligence coups in WWII, things like that. From 2002, so goes through 9/11 up to buildup of Iraq War. I know we discussed this before on the Reading thread.

I hadn't even known about this, and just did a bit of googling--he apparently named more names than anyone else. One of the strange things about both HUAC and the Army-McCarthy hearings is that they were ineffectual, but about something that actually did exist, in the sense that Soviet spies really were everywhere, and these red-scare movements were kinds of intuitions of that, but maybe wrong-headed or just incompetent. Thomas Powers book on the CIA makes this point, I wouldn't have known it otherwise. Maybe one of the few major artists whose work I've seen a great deal of and knew nothing about his personal life. I think I didn't even know he was gay--oh lord, I never looked him up! Just read that he also rescued the original production of 'Funny Girl', which I had forgotten he choreographed--not a great dance show like some of the more famous Robbins works, but definitely things like 'Rat-Tat-Tat-Tat' must have been smart-looking due to his contribution (and for B'way fans, I just saw that that show was nominated for all the major Tonys and won not a single one, losing every one to Hello, Dolly! which is pretty bad, especially when you compare the two scores, the Styne is light-years beyond the Herman). Used to love Dances at a Gathering back in the 70s, and also Other Dances, and always 'fancy free'. Abhor 'Glass Pieces', think it one of the most pedestrian and pretentious things I've ever seen. 'In Memory of...' okay, but somewhat artificial--I've seen grief done a lot better elsewhere. What I'd be most interested in is his Bernstein collaboration on the Age of Anxiety, which I made a separate post for, but nobody responded who had seen it. It had gotten good reviews, but I doubt has been revived. Started with Tanaquil LeClerq in the cast, and later Melissa Hayden would have been good too, because she always was. printscess, I'm always impressed when people have parents like that, and even like that humorous twist of an exception they made for the Beatles (indeed, that was a thrilling moment when the Beatles were on Ed Sullivan.)

As far as I could see the talk was not recorded. I did not write in detail every thing she talked about as I am aware that some of my posts are rather long which embarasses me. Put it down to my age. I only saw this just now. NO, the longer the better! I want all the details of something like hearing the Princess's talk that someone has time to notate. My posts are often long, and I'm never embarassed about it even if I should be. This was a great report.

For some reason, I always say all of 'New York City Ballet', but write it as NYCB. I always say 'ABT', but do remember when people said 'Ballet Theater', and always thought it was so cool. It's true, you hardly ever hear that anymore. I think both threads have shown how relative all aspects of all the companies are, and few of the things we thought we had 'cultural agreement' on, for lack of a better way to say it, apply at all. The English perspective was far different about almost all companies and dancers from the American perspective than I would have thought--for example, the distinctions about Nureyev and Baryshnikov are very different from what I would have supposed, although this surely has much to do with Nureyev's RB stardom. Therefore, the rest of Europe is bound to be full of many more variations and variables still. What Cristian says of ABT in Cuba is interesting as well.

Yes, this it nicer by far than the banana colour, so that now there are five (or so) colours altogether, and four (or so) are in the same family. And there are many tutus in the light-lime and light-lavender family, so we have now a nice understated ballet look--makes me think of Ashton, for some reason--and maybe Luna Moths. No more Life Saver look...Good job, Helene, and sounds like you worked on it a long time--like at Janovic Plaza or something..

But I think it is pretty by now anyway.

It took me the longest time to figure out what these colours remind me of--they are like breath mints, I think, maybe Certs. I thought the simpler scheme more elegant, but one gets used to these things in a day or two, it isn't something too crucial to change to it.

I don't think such things as 'exacting fame measurements' could have anything to do with the 'serious interest in the art of ballet', nor that most care enough to go into rages about their personal favourites unless they're professional groupies (and those do exist here as elsewhere, I guess.). It's interesting, though, to see how people evaluate these phenomena from different cultures--as, for example, it is obvious to me that Fracci not as 'famous internationally' as Fonteyn, but I wouldn't have thought you could make a difference between "Huge Fames" like Nureyev and Baryshnikov. If so, that's fine with me, I always preferred Nureyev even though I thought Baryshnikov became 'more famous' at one point. Especially since I prefer Sizova to any of them, and had to find out who she was at Ballet Talk, since she's not nearly as 'famous' as all these others just because of being the best.... Oh, I would just DIE if Ethan Stiefel got too high at the top of the fame magnitude list, since his dancing never excited me. And what if Chinese started comparing NYCB star fame (where there isn't supposed to be any stardom, although fame is all right) with ABT fame. Primitive ethnic assumptions on my own vile part make me think they'd see ABT fame as 'REAL FAME', since they love all the big B'way show tours, with giant sets.