Alexandra

I will! I haven't seen the company in years and I'm really looking forward to it. I'll be looking forward to reading you :blush:

Gentlemen, I can add nothing :blush:

Well, that depends on how one defines "ballet." We had a discussion about this when the new/old "Bayadere" was in New York. The ballets of that time were classical, demicaractere and character dancing, with substantial sections of pantomime, much of which has been pruned away. As art said, it's not an ideal production for touring, not just because of the production aspects, but because audiences here aren't used to it.

Interested in short, beautiful deaths? Ulanova's in "The Fountains of Basishirai." About a minute, but very moving.

The past few weeks have been difficult for us. We understand that when there are questions about a popular dancer -- injury, joining or leaving a company, etc. -- that people want to know, and in our time of instant communications, they want to know NOW. We have tried to explain, over and over, that we do not allow posts about events which have not yet been covered in print or an official announcement from the company. We have explained the reasons for this. At least 95 percent of the people who post here understand them, and follow the rules. But there are those who constantly push it, "forget," or think that we are plain wrong and they're going to do it anyway. Perhaps it's time for those who feel this way to start another message board, where you can set the rules and chat about anything you want. There are at least two free ones I know -- http://www.ezboard.com/ and http://groups-beta.google.com. You don't need a website; they're standalone. You can set up an ezboard in five minutes -- I did, years ago, when we tried to have a companion board to Ballet Talk for modern dance. It's easy to use and looks very much like this one. I'm quite serious about this. If you decide to set up such a board, we wish you well, and we'll probably read you! You'll still be welcome to post here, as long as you follow our rules. If you choose to stay, though, please give the Moderators a break. They've spent the past few weeks doing little else but sweeping up after those who just have to dish. We'd like them to be able to read, post and enjoy the board. Six years ago, I founded this board to be "a place for civilized discourse about ballet." I did not intend the site to become a ballet version of the Drudge Report. We'd like to go back to the days where, when people came here to ask a question, it was,"Which is the missing movement of Western Symphony, and what happened to it?" Not, "So have you heard that La Sublimova is leaving and may possibly sign with the Ballet Russe, although my friend who really knows what's what says she might be forming her own company." This is an announcement, not for discussion. We've publicly discussed the gossip policy many times, the last in January, when it was the overwhelming sense of the board to keep it. Thank you.

Dear NYCB Fans: The past few weeks have been difficult for us. We understand that when there are questions about a popular dancer -- injury, joining or leaving a company, etc. -- that people want to know, and in our time of instant communications, they want to know NOW. We have tried to explain, over and over, that we do not allow posts about events which have not yet been reported in print or an official announcement from the company. We have explained the reasons for this. At least 95 percent of the people who post here understand them, and follow the rules. But there are those who constantly push it, "forget," or think that we are plain wrong and they're going to do it anyway. Perhaps it's time for those who feel this way to start another message board, where you can set the rules and chat about anything you want. There are at least two free ones I know -- http://www.ezboard.com/ and http://groups-beta.google.com. You don't need a website; they're standalone. You can set up an ezboard in five minutes -- I did, years ago, when we tried to have a companion board to Ballet Talk for modern dance. It's easy to use and looks very much like this one. I'm quite serious about this. If you decide to set up such a board, we wish you well, and we'll probably read you! You'll still be welcome to post here, as long as you follow our rules. If you choose to stay, though, please give the Moderators a break. They've spent the past few weeks doing little else but sweeping up after those who just have to dish. We'd like them to be able to read, post and enjoy the board. Six years ago, I founded this board to be "a place for civilized discourse about ballet." I did not intend the site to become a ballet version of the Drudge Report. We'd like to go back to the days where, when people came here to ask a question, it was,"Which is the missing movement of Western Symphony, and what happened to it?" Not, "So have you heard that La Sublimova is leaving and may possibly sign with the Ballet Russe, although my friend who really knows what's what says she might be forming her own company." This is an announcement, not for discussion. We've publicly discussed the gossip policy many times, the last in January, when it was the overwhelming sense of the board to keep it. I'll cross-post it in the Member Announcements forum, because it goes for everyone -- we have had problems on the ABT, Kirov and Bolshoi forums as well. Thank you.

I didn't put "Serenade" or any of the other pieces of music that Tchaikovsky wrote that people have used for ballets, but limited the poll to the scores he actually composed for ballet. Just in case someone was wondering Keep voting!!!

Ah, Hans, if you had only seen the Trocaderos "Nutcracker." The tree couldn't grow, so they shrunk the ceiling (it was in an about-to-be-condemned NY downtown theater in the late '70s). Papa S got a Daddy Christmas tie. I think Mama S got a toaster, but wouldn't swear to it. They always get to the heart of the things that really matter

Political journalists do the same thing, and have for years. "There's been speculation all week that there would be a major announcement from the Supreme Court; it came today." "Secretary Jones resigned today. It's widely speculated that he will run for Congress in the fall." Re whether or not this is a reflection on the state of NYCB -- hard to say. It may just be one person's view of her own career. She's not the first NYCB dancer to leave "to dance the classics," and probably won't be the last.

I had thought of doing a poll: "Minkus or Tchaikovsky? Who's the more TUNEFUL?" but then thought not. I will also freely admit that the first time I heard "Sleeping Beauty" played at the ballet, I was disappointed in it, and Tchaikovsky had been my favorite composer since I was six. (But that was his symphonies and concerti and the Marche Slav ) I love it now, and I almost voted for it instead of All -- but it did take a few listenings.

Oh, I think people do care about all of it, details, dancing, acting, history, tradition, everything.

Re the spindle and symbolism -- I'm one who thinks that the overtly sexual initerpretations are inappropriate. Read the diaries of people writing in the 18th and 19th century and most do not go into great detail about their sexual prowess, yearnings, or obsessions. More important, the spindle and the idea of spinning goes back to ancient myths - the Fates wove the cloth of life and snipped the thread when a life was over, is one of them. It's just as likely that the spindle has that connotation. (I think it could be a symbol of marriageable age, and spinsterhood, too, but that doesn't make it a phallic symbol.)

Actually, most of us do care about these details, Majinsky, and the site was set up so that there would be a place where people who do care about such details can discuss them. If you want to be a dancer, you might want to spend some time thinking about them too, because there's a hell of a lot more to ballet than the freaking dancing, much as we love that, too.

Whew! I'm glad someone finally voted for "Swan Lake." I took the "All" option (although "Nutcracker" is not an emotional favorite, I think it's a good score) but was worried that "Swan Lake" was so unloved!

Thank you for that, Estelle. I had read her name, but didn't know her history.

The "Sleeping Beauty" thread included so many interesting comments about Tchaikovsky's score that I felt a poll coming on.....

I think this is an excellent point. Ballet companies that haven't yet become Great Institutions -- which means they've survived several director changes and cycles, have a reasonable expectation of support and a first-rate school -- are only as good as their artistic directors and financial situation. The reputations of companies like San Francisco Ballet, Pacific Northwest Ballet, Miami City Ballet, that are very highly ranked now (rightly so, IMO) will depend on their NEXT directors; for PNB, this will come soon. It's easier to turn one of the Great Institutions around, because all the support systems and underpinnigs are in place. With other companies, if a major donor dies and another moves or loses interest, if a fine director is replaced by an empty suit, they could be off the map in two seasons. AND a small-company-near-death can be turned around by a fine director and supportive board in two seasons.

At Hans's suggestion (with which I agreed!) I've split all the posts about whether Today's Young would think Petipa ballets were bad here: http://ballettalk.invisionzone.com/index.p...=0entry163463 (Good to see you again, julip, and thanks for posting this!)

I think it would be interesting if people want to draw up a Top 5, Top 10, or Top whatever list, but when a company press release says "One of the Top 10" or "one of the world's great international companies" (because they just came back from touring Guam, no offense Guam) or, as a rather famous recent case, "We're going to be one of the Top 5 companies in five years" -- I give it as much weight as when one of our local used car dealers makes a similar claim In other words, it's just something to say that sounds wonderful and is unlikely to be challenged. (I can't tell you how many press releases I've read ecstatically raving over New Ballet 2 by John Schmoe, "one of the major choreographers of our time."

There's Still Hope for you! Although you are very<br>involved in Ballet Talk, you're not over the<br>edge...yet. Just don't let your boss catch you<br>sneaking glimpses at work I'm glad to know I'm not addicted!

A minute ago, the page was still loading -- sorry! Couldn't see it. Why not post it here, Hans? That's one of the reasons we have polls!

I think the ballet got pretty well hacked up over the years. If you read about the 1840-something original in Beaumont's "Complete Book of the Ballets" it sounds completely different. There are plot changes (Medora and Conrad were in love at the ballet's opening. She's sold into haremdom by Lankadehm -- who is her guardian!! (and who, of course, did not dance) And the score was a complete whole, all by Adam. So all of those interpolations came later. (An amusing aside. One website that sells the DVD lists all the composers, including Prince. They count "Prince Oldenburg" as two composers -- Prince and Oldenburg). It got to Russia in the late 19th century and my guess is that by at least the 1920s, they'd started to work their wicked ways

bart, the few Petit ballets I've seen have been performance pieces -- very dependent on the dancers. With powerful performers, it works (the Danes were known for their productions of "Cyrano" and especially "Carmen," which was a core rep piece for them, and several leading dancers, for more than a decade. AND his "L'Arlsienne" in Paris (I've only seen a tape) was wonderful. BUT if you "just dance it" they're, well, awful Giselle05, the Royal Ballet revived "Marguerite and Armand" a few seasons ago for Sylvie Guillem who danced it with both Nicolas Le Riche (POB) and Jonathan Cope -- and perhaps someone else. I didn't think much of those casts (they danced at the Kennedy Center a few seasons ago) but I do believe that the ballet could sustain other casts. I've read that Lynn Seymour and Christopher Gable were to be the second cast, but that the ballet was so identified with Fonteyn and Nureyev that there was no second cast. Helene, I have a soft spot for "Spartacus" too, but I don't think it's a bad ballet. Again, I think it might depend on the cast. There's a perfectly valid argument that ballets that are cast dependent are bad ballets; I just don't happen to agree with it

I wonder how the ABT principals would look on the Bolshoi stage, to Bolshoi fans

I almost put "Marguerite and Armand," because some have written that it's a bad ballet, a view with which I disagree. I really think many don't understand it -- they expect a linear storytelling ballet, and that's not what Ashton set out to do. But it was irresistible!! (I haven't seen a right cast since the original, but I think there are many dancers who could be interesting in those roles.)