Marketing and School Materials: Representation/"Representation"?

[Tapfan]

[Admin note: This discussion was raised in the NYCB Nutcracker 2023 thread and has been moved here.]

 

Why does NYCB use photos on promotional posters of dancers like Olivia Boisson and Rachell Hutsell whom they don't or didn't promote? It can come across as  exploitation. At least Olivia Bell an India Bradley occasionally get their featured work reviewed in The Times. 

[BalanchineFan]

I have been in modern dance companies and off-Broadway shows. When you sign a contract, the company gets the right to use your likeness (in their work, not your personal photos) in perpetuity. I think the argument is that they were paying you when the pictures were taken. Performers don’t generally mind. It may help them/us to be the poster child for some great show or another. 

My guess is that Rachel Hutsell got her current dance work partly as a result of her experience at NYCB. If she’s featured in current photos she may well consider it a feather in her cap. 

Pictures are a record of what happened, not a promise of advancement or promotion. If NYCB is promoting a ballet in which Hutsell danced the premiere (and she danced several premieres) it might be difficult for them to omit her. 
 

ps I love The NY Times article 

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/22/arts/dance/dewdrop-nutcracker-new-york-city-ballet-india-bradley-alexandra-hutchinson.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare
At City Ballet, History Is Made 

Edited December 22, 2023 by BalanchineFan

[abatt]

Tapfan listed all African American dancers in his/her post,  and used the word 'exploitation" to refer to the company's use of the images of  African American dancers in company advertisements and photos.  That was the specific comment to which I was responding when I referenced diversity, equity and inclusion goals of NYCB.

But yes, I agree that corps dancers of all races are also featured in photos.

Edited December 22, 2023 by abatt

[Tapfan]

3 hours ago, abatt said:

Staford has said  that NYCB is actively trying to include more artists of color and diverse backgrounds at NYCB.   The photos of the artists you mentioned are intended to demonstrate how diverse and inclusive the company is at this time.

Hutsell isn't on promo posters NOW. But she was on a poster a few years ago. It led me to believe that she was moving up in the company. But nada. Boisson was on a promotional light display recently but she rarely dances roles outside the corp-de-ballet. 

English National Ballet faced a bit of a backlash a few years ago when they featured Precious Adams in a Swan Lake promotional poster.  The publicity people said they used her because she has beautiful arms, but it led many patrons to assume she was dancing Odette/Odile when she wasn't. At the time, she wasn't a soloist. To some, it came across as exploitation. 

How is this different than putting the sole black female student at a ballet school on the cover of a  school's brochure to sell it as diverse when it really isn't?

I'd rather organizations be honest. Since Olivia Bell and India Bradley ocasionally get some notice in the press, I have high hopes that either of them will at least make it to soloist.  

[BalanchineFan]

5 hours ago, Tapfan said:

I'd rather organizations be honest. Since Olivia Bell and India Bradley ocasionally get some notice in the press, I have high hopes that either of them will at least make it to soloist.  

I don't see how it's dishonest for a ballet company to show a picture of a company member, past or present. Dancers get noticed and featured all the time without it leading to a promotion. Dancers also leave companies for a wide variety of reasons at all the different points in their careers.  I wouldn't consider anyone's career a failure for not "making it to soloist."

One of my college students was an apprentice at NYCB. She did a season of Nutcracker. She didn't get a contract. I don't know why (and she's white, if that matters). I love her attitude. "I studied ballet for years and got to perform with my favorite ballet company." She's about to get her degree from Columbia. 

I think NYCB was smart to have Alexandra Hutchinson as a guest Dewdrop the same season as India Bradley. It takes the pressure off each of them. NYCB and SAB are committed to diversity through their actions:

• SAB's Committee on Diversity
• Partnerships with schools in Black areas, (they send NYCB alums/SAB teachers out and also bring outside teachers in to train them in SAB curriculum. This is not exclusively for POC.)
• Yearly auditions in areas with people of color (shown in the series On Pointe)
• Hiring dancers of color and giving them performance opportunities
• Hiring choreographers of color
• Black people in positions of authority (repertory directors and head of SAB)

I hope India Bradley and (eventually) Olivia Bell continue to develop and get promoted. I would love to see it. The fact remains, there is now a multi-pronged pipeline for dancers of color, just as there always was for white people. It will happen for more than one. And it will keep happening. It's not dependent on one person, and one person doesn't have to shoulder all of the attendant pressure and responsibility.

In the late 50's my father integrated a prep school in Connecticut. One of the administrators told him, "You're our first. If you do well, maybe we'll have others." It's a lot for a teenager.

Edited December 23, 2023 by BalanchineFan

[Tapfan]

On 12/22/2023 at 5:29 PM, BalanchineFan said:

I don't see how it's dishonest for a ballet company to show a picture of a company member, past or present. Dancers get noticed and featured all the time without it leading to a promotion. Dancers also leave companies for a wide variety of reasons at all the different points in their careers.  I wouldn't consider anyone's career a failure for not "making it to soloist."

One of my college students was an apprentice at NYCB. She did a season of Nutcracker. She didn't get a contract. I don't know why (and she's white, if that matters). I love her attitude. "I studied ballet for years and got to perform with my favorite ballet company." She's about to get her degree from Columbia. 

I think NYCB was smart to have Alexandra Hutchinson as a guest Dewdrop the same season as India Bradley. It takes the pressure off each of them. NYCB and SAB are committed to diversity through their actions:

• SAB's Committee on Diversity
• Partnerships with schools in Black areas, (they send NYCB alums/SAB teachers out and also bring outside teachers in to train them in SAB curriculum. This is not exclusively for POC.)
• Yearly auditions in areas with people of color (shown in the series On Pointe)
• Hiring dancers of color and giving them performance opportunities
• Hiring choreographers of color
• Black people in positions of authority (repertory directors and head of SAB)

I hope India Bradley and (eventually) Olivia Bell continue to develop and get promoted. I would love to see it. The fact remains, there is now a multi-pronged pipeline for dancers of color, just as there always was for white people. It will happen for more than one. And it will keep happening. It's not dependent on one person, and one person doesn't have to shoulder all of the attendant pressure and responsibility.

In the late 50's my father integrated a prep school in Connecticut. One of the administrators told him, "You're our first. If you do well, maybe we'll have others." It's a lot for a teenager.

No, it doesn't mean you're a failure because you don't get promoted to soloist.  But promotion out of the corp-de-ballet  is ONE  measure of progress of racial diversity in this elite art form, an art form that not so long ago, was deliberately and unashamedly closed to many black women. (See documentary clips of Delores Browne, Raven Wilkerson and Joan Myers Brown under the heading "Blacks in Ballet" on Youtube)

I think some folks are particulary disappointed with City ballet because it was assumed that because of the Arthur Mitchell promotion to principal, they would be one of the first to train, hire and promote deserving black women dancers. Instead, they lagged way behind other, more staid companies. In fact, for an uncomfortably long time, in  SOME quarters, they had a reputation for near-hostility towards black female dancers.  

Edited December 24, 2023 by Tapfan

[vagansmom]

I think Peter Martins had closed eyes when it came to diversity. For example, his image of a male principal dancer was himself: Tall and blond. He stereotyped certain looks in certain roles, bypassing many capable dancers. Partnering had to be a male with a female. Once he left, there was a substantial shift. Lots more needs to be done, but it does look like community outreach is starting to work. 

[Tapfan]

4 hours ago, vagansmom said:

I think Peter Martins had closed eyes when it came to diversity. For example, his image of a male principal dancer was himself: Tall and blond. He stereotyped certain looks in certain roles, bypassing many capable dancers. Partnering had to be a male with a female. Once he left, there was a substantial shift. Lots more needs to be done, but it does look like community outreach is starting to work. 

I totally agree.

[volcanohunter]

It wouldn't be accurate to say that under Peter Martins the company became overwhelmingly tall and blond. For one thing, it became conspicuously shorter. He promoted quite a few short and dark-haired dancers to principal. Who was the last tall and blond male dancer he promoted to principal?

Lots of companies and choreographers cast according to height and physical type. How many principal dancers have been denied the chance to perform iconic roles because they were deemed too short or too tall? It's not an issue exclusive to Peter Martins' NYCB.

[uptowner]

In the ten years that I’ve been paying attention to NYCB it has certainly become more visibly diverse, but very much “bottom up” so if you look at the younger corps especially. I guess another 10 years will tell whether this approach will build a more inclusive and diverse company up and down the ranks— are these dancers going to thrive, are they going to stay in the profession? How well are they mentored and supported? who will be promoted? But I do not agree that it’s necessarily exploitative to feature corps dancers in promotional materials, whether they are “on track” for promotion or not. Most dancers are corps, and they should be featured— the corps does a ton of dancing in that company (just look at nutcracker— unlike the soloists or principals, most corps are in every single show). Current leadership seems committed to changing things, even as they have to also celebrate and build on their legacy. And part of it will be PR and projecting a particular public image. Some of the work began under Martins, but he’s no longer at the helm to explain his intentions etc. 

Edited December 24, 2023 by uptowner

[abatt]

5 hours ago, uptowner said:

In the ten years that I’ve been paying attention to NYCB it has certainly become more visibly diverse, but very much “bottom up” so if you look at the younger corps especially. I guess another 10 years will tell whether this approach will build a more inclusive and diverse company up and down the ranks— are these dancers going to thrive, are they going to stay in the profession? How well are they mentored and supported? who will be promoted? But I do not agree that it’s necessarily exploitative to feature corps dancers in promotional materials, whether they are “on track” for promotion or not. Most dancers are corps, and they should be featured— the corps does a ton of dancing in that company (just look at nutcracker— unlike the soloists or principals, most corps are in every single show). Current leadership seems committed to changing things, even as they have to also celebrate and build on their legacy. And part of it will be PR and projecting a particular public image. Some of the work began under Martins, but he’s no longer at the helm to explain his intentions etc. 

By diverse are we also counting people of Asian or Latin  heritage.  Nadon is a principal, and is part Indian.  Kj Takahashi is of Japanese heritage.  Sebastian Villarini Velez is Puerto Rican.  Mejia is of Peruvian heritage.  Huxley's family is from the Philippines'.  So there is diversity on all levels of the Company.  Frankly, I believe the push for diversity started under Martins, although perhaps late in his tenure.  I doubt J. Stafford ever had an original thought about anything, so the diversity inclusion approach probably began when he was shadowing Martins, except Stafford's takeover of the head job came sooner than was expected.

Can anyone point to anything that Stafford has done during his tenure that was entirely original and not just a continuation of what Martins did?  

Martins definitely valued short dancers to an extreme degree because they can generally move faster than their taller counterparts.   The company principal roster did become shorter under his leadership. 

Edited December 25, 2023 by abatt

[BalanchineFan]

10 hours ago, vagansmom said:

I think Peter Martins had closed eyes when it came to diversity. For example, his image of a male principal dancer was himself: Tall and blond. He stereotyped certain looks in certain roles, bypassing many capable dancers. Partnering had to be a male with a female. Once he left, there was a substantial shift. Lots more needs to be done, but it does look like community outreach is starting to work. 

 

4 hours ago, volcanohunter said:

Who was the last tall and blond male dancer he promoted to principal?

I believe the most recent dancer in that mold was Chase Finlay. if you discount hair color, Zachary Catazaro might qualify as being in the Martins mold too (technique aside). Martins had fixed, narrow ideas of what made a great dancer, imo.  I agree that things opened up once he left. 

l think it’s significant that there are more POC in the rehearsal room. More choreographers, more composers. With new ballets you never know what will ultimately work, but a more diverse group of people are getting a chance and that impacts dancers and audiences. 
I remember Taylor Stanley saying in an interview that Kyle Abraham was the first choreographer of color they encountered at NYCB. Stanley was already a principal. Imagine if that wasn’t a novel thing or if it happened earlier in a career, as it did for India Bradley. Different cultural backgrounds make for a richer, more supportive environment. 

I’m not surprised that Emma Von Enck shone as Dewdrop. I love her dancing. 

Isn’t Aaron Sanz just back from illness or injury? He was replaced for a spell during the fall season, IIRC. 

[abatt]

1 hour ago, BalanchineFan said:

 

I believe the most recent dancer in that mold was Chase Finlay. if you discount hair color, Zachary Catazaro might qualify as being in the Martins mold too (technique aside). Martins had fixed, narrow ideas of what made a great dancer, imo.  I agree that things opened up once he left. 

l think it’s significant that there are more POC in the rehearsal room. More choreographers, more composers. With new ballets you never know what will ultimately work, but a more diverse group of people are getting a chance and that impacts dancers and audiences. 
I remember Taylor Stanley saying in an interview that Kyle Abraham was the first choreographer of color they encountered at NYCB. Stanley was already a principal. Imagine if that wasn’t a novel thing or if it happened earlier in a career, as it did for India Bradley. Different cultural backgrounds make for a richer, more supportive environment. 

I’m not surprised that Emma Von Enck shone as Dewdrop. I love her dancing. 

Isn’t Aaron Sanz just back from illness or injury? He was replaced for a spell during the fall season, IIRC. 

Albert Evans and Ulysses Dove, both African Americans, were choreographing at NyCB well before Abraham. Unfortunately, they both died young.

Yes, Sanz is returning from injury.  That might be an excuse for poor solo work, but I don't think it helps to explain partnering mishaps.

Edited December 25, 2023 by abatt

[Tapfan]

On 12/24/2023 at 4:59 PM, abatt said:

By diverse are we also counting people of Asian or Latin  heritage.  Nadon is a principal, and is part Indian.  Kj Takahashi is of Japanese heritage.  Sebastian Villarini Velez is Puerto Rican.  Mejia is of Peruvian heritage.  Huxley's family is from the Philippines'.  So there is diversity on all levels of the Company.  Frankly, I believe the push for diversity started under Martins, although perhaps late in his tenure.  I doubt J. Stafford ever had an original thought about anything, so the diversity inclusion approach probably began when he was shadowing Martins, except Stafford's takeover of the head job came sooner than was expected.

Can anyone point to anything that Stafford has done during his tenure that was entirely original and not just a continuation of what Martins did?  

Martins definitely valued short dancers to an extreme degree because they can generally move faster than their taller counterparts.   The company principal roster did become shorter under his leadership. 

A zillion years ago when I first encountered Ballet Alert, I asked why City Ballet had so few Asian dancers when practically all other companies  - large and small - had significant numbers. It was as strange to look at a ballet company roster in the West and see no Asians,  as it would be to see no Asians at elite colleges and universities.

Some members suggested that people from Asia and  the Asian diaspora were like most other ballet dancers,  trained in Vagonova technique and thus, had cut themselves off from being considered for dancing at a Balanchine company.

But this explanation seemed unlikely to me considering the fact that most of the students who attend SAB summer intensives, have been training in the Vagonova, French or Cecchetti styles.

But props to NYCB for finally making progress on hiring and promoting  talented dancers who happen to be Asian.  

Edited December 26, 2023 by Tapfan

[On Pointe]

NYCB has had a number of Asian dancers,  for example Edwaard Liang,  Georgina Pazcoguin,  and Gen Horiuchi,  who was a principal.  It has also had a few dancers who are half Asian,  like Allen Peiffer.  But South Korea,  China and Japan are now producing such wonderful classical dancers it's unusual to see a company roster without multiple Asians.  NYCB has also had very few Latinas compared to most American companies.  I can only think of Lourdes Lopez and Monique Meunier.

[uptowner]

NYCB has significantly fewer foreign-trained dancers in general because they draw so heavily from their own school, which means most of the recruiting happens when the dancers are still very young. Also my sense is that neither the school nor the company recruit from competitions (which one way to ease the process of getting an "extraordinary ability" visa, someone told me. Is that really true?). That does make the roster at NYCB somewhat different than "sister" companies. The upper level students at SAB, and thus who has a shot at the company, reflects the "onramp" to ballet for American kids, and the aspirations/priorities/resources of their parents. In the US we have vanishingly few programs that actively recruit for ballet (I can think of some like Ballet Tech, the MCB Ballet Bus... more than "outreach" which a lot of companies do, but rather actively looking for kids who might not have even considered ballet and really supporting their training in practical ways). The only dancers currently on the roster who I can think of who didn't come to SAB for at least a little while are Furlan and Chan. 

Its great to see Nutcracker selling so well, hopefully the company is making tons of money and can promote some more dancers 😉 

There are 10 performances left, but no tickets at all to buy except for a couple of ADA seats for some dates (though oddly I am still getting advertisements from the company-- I guess they already paid for them and are running them anyway?)  Upthread someone mentioned standing room and I ended up seeing it with a standing room ticket last week. So I am just repeating that it is an option-- day of, in person purchase only. I called ahead and the box office was able to confirm availability. You do actually have to stand the whole time, but there is a sturdy ledge you can lean on. 

 

[BalanchineFan]

14 hours ago, abatt said:

Albert Evans and Ulysses Dove, both African Americans, were choreographing at NyCB well before Abraham. Unfortunately, they both died young.

Yes, Sanz is returning from injury.  That might be an excuse for poor solo work, but I don't think it helps to explain partnering mishaps.

Taylor Stanley apparently had not worked with either as choreographer. 

Many injuries impact partnering; back, hips, legs and feet. Plus, returning from injury can be a long process of relearning to trust your body in big technical moves. If split second timing is required you can’t hesitate. Whenever I have been injured I become tentative. I can’t imagine doing a shoulder sit tentatively.

I don’t offer this information as an excuse but as my guess at an explanation.  

[Tapfan]

12 hours ago, uptowner said:

NYCB has significantly fewer foreign-trained dancers in general because they draw so heavily from their own school, which means most of the recruiting happens when the dancers are still very young. Also my sense is that neither the school nor the company recruit from competitions (which one way to ease the process of getting an "extraordinary ability" visa, someone told me. Is that really true?).

 

Wasn't Ashley Bouder pretty advanced in her training before she started attending SAB?   And Tiler Peck and Quinn Starner were comp kids. 

[vipa]

1 minute ago, Tapfan said:

Wasn't Ashley Bouder pretty advanced in her training before she started attending SAB?   And Tiler Peck and Quinn Starner were comp kids. 

Many students are pretty advanced in their training before starting at SAB. There are dancers in the company who were comp kids, (Mearns is one), however they weren't recruited or given scholarships via competitions. The way into SAB is by auditioning for the summer intensive and being invited to stay the year. The amount of time spent at SAB before being asked to be an apprentice varies. Sometimes it's short. There are also a few company members who grew up in the NYC area, and went all the way through the school. I believe Ashley Hod received most of her training at SAB. In any event NYCB doesn't recruit from competitions the way some other companies do.

[eduardo]

On 12/25/2023 at 4:00 AM, On Pointe said:

 I can only think of Lourdes Lopez and Monique Meunier.

I'd add Ana Sophia Scheller, who was a principal dancer when she left the company.

[Tapfan]

5 hours ago, eduardo said:

I'd add Ana Sophia Scheller, who was a principal dancer when she left the company.

I thought we were primarily discussing racial diversity. Despite the fact that in the U.S., the word is frequently used to refer to people who identify as brown, according to my Latino friends, the term  is actually an ethnicity not a race. Many people who identify as Latino also identify as white.

[eduardo]

5 minutes ago, Tapfan said:

I thought we were primarily discussing racial diversity. Despite the fact that in the U.S., the word is frequently used to refer to people who identify as brown, according to my Latino friends, the term  is actually an ethnicity not a race. Many people who identify as Latino also identify as white.

I stand corrected. The Nutcracker title made me think it was a Nutcracker discussion.

Anyway, by no means I intended to hijack the thread. I just added one single name to the short list made by On Point upthread.

[Tapfan]

On 12/25/2023 at 10:55 PM, vipa said:

Many students are pretty advanced in their training before starting at SAB. There are dancers in the company who were comp kids, (Mearns is one), however they weren't recruited or given scholarships via competitions. 

That's the reason I don't get the lack of diversity. Attending Summer Intensives should give the teachers access to a whole range of talented student dancers who are good enough to attend SAB, including many who are people of color and a particularly large number who are of Asian descent. Were  non-white students just not auditioning for SAB summer intensives all these years? Was City Ballet's repution for being excessively insular make students of color not want to try?

I honestly don't think there was some evil conspiracy to keep the company  overwhelmingly white despite there being talented dancers of color out there. But I DO think that for the longest time,  diversity just wan't a priority at NYCB. And I understand the feelings of those who say merit alone should be all that matters. But that assumes that there can be no talented people of color out there who could bloom if given the chance.  

When speaking about the low numbers of black females who attend SAB, Kay Mazzo said that was one of the reasons they were trying to get support to local  ballet schools that train large numbers of minority students. She said that when it came auditioning, many black females just weren't where they needed to be. 

But  that doesn't explain the lack of Asian females.  And a a few over several years isn't much.

Edited January 3 by Tapfan

[volcanohunter]

1 hour ago, Tapfan said:

Despite the fact that in the U.S., the word is frequently used to refer to people who identify as brown, according to my Latino friends, the term  is actually an ethnicity not a race. Many people who identify as Latino also identify as white.

The Census Bureau identifies Hispanic as an ethnicity, but research shows that Hispanics see it differently. 

Not long ago, during the taking of the census, Latinos identified overwhelmingly as white. As of the 2020 census most identified as mixed race or "other" because the question was formulated differently. 

They also tend not to lump themselves into a big Hispanic/Latino pot.

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/09/05/who-is-hispanic/ 

Edited December 26, 2023 by volcanohunter

[Tapfan]

10 hours ago, volcanohunter said:

The Census Bureau identifies Hispanic as an ethnicity, but research shows that Hispanics see it differently. 

Not long ago, during the taking of the census, Latinos identified overwhelmingly as white. As of the 2020 census most identified as mixed race or "other" because the question was formulated differently. 

They also tend not to lump themselves into a big Hispanic/Latino pot.

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/09/05/who-is-hispanic/ 

I understand. It's also been explained to me that place of origin or nationality is more important than labels like " Latino" for some folks. But agreement on identifying  subgroups like race within the Latino community can at best be called fluid and is very, very, controversial.  I know kids within the same family who identify as people of color while their parents identify as white.

For instance, many Puerto Ricans who obviously have African ancestry still identify as white. So it depends on which country  or nationality in  the Latino community you're taliking about and even the individual person, when thinking about how people identify.

 It's complicated. For instance, Spanish actress Penelope Cruz - who incidentally studied ballet - identifies as both a Latina and a white woman. So if she was dancing with NYCB,  she'd make the company more diverse if you're talking about ethnicity or nationality but if you're talking about race, she wouldn't. ( And yes I do know that NYCB has at least one Spanish national as a dancer. )

Mitt Romney whose name should be in the encyclopedia next to the term - "white guy "- angered SOME in the Latino community because he didn't claim his Latino roots when he ran for president. It seems his father having been born in a Mormon colony in Mexico,  made Mitt  Latino in the eyes of SOME Latinos  and they took it as an insult that he never mentioned that fact.   It was as if it was a source of shame. So if Mitt Romney is considered Latino due to his heritage, then it obviously is an ethnicity and not a race in the eyes of some folks.  

Edited December 27, 2023 by Tapfan