Underrated Movies

[papeetepatrick]

the Major Barbara with Hiller and Rex Harrison, although it's talk talk talk.

Oh yes, thanks for putting this, I definitely want to see this one most of the new ones this thread is coming up with. The more 'talk, talk, talk' with those two the better. I suppose their 'kingfisher' is well-loved by fans of this (and perhaps other things they may have done together), but I found it unwatchable with all that 80s TV-movie gloss on it; also Hiller still looked good and full of life in 1983, he didn't, I thought, and also didn't have much of the old sparkle.

Think 'Susan Lenox (Her Rise and Fall)' is definitely underrated. Shows the kind of range Garbo had, and isn't like any of the others; you see more of what she was capable of as an actress, with less of the goddess complex emphasized. It's certainly much more alive than things like 'Romance', 'Inspiration' and 'As You Desire Me', and she tolerated a worthy male star for a change, Clark Gable. Of course, there were also John Gilbert, Charles Boyer and Robert Taylor (the latter at least looked the part), but she did have co-stars that would seem weak with her even if they were good elsewhere. It is an important addition to her oeuvre, and is very absorbing, it doesn't matter that it wasn't perfect.

I also remembered 'Secret Ceremony' with Mitchum, Taylor and Farrow, which I hated when it first came out. But I watched it a few years ago and it's a good entertainment, and Liz and Mitchum are terrific.

[dirac]

It has some clunky moments, but Arzner does some very interesting things to say about male gaze and the arts. It has some very startling moments.

Arzner was a last minute replacement on “Dance, Girl, Dance” but it’s very likely that change made a difference to the final product, although I’m not familiar with the Vicki Baum story the movie is based on.

Arzner also directed, and Zoe Akins wrote, an early Katharine Hepburn feature called Christopher Strong which also has its unusual moments and takes a strikingly feminist view.

(It should be noted that, strictly speaking, neither movie is especially good as a movie. We’re not talking underrated classics here.)

I am going to throw in a film that is often thought of as campy Hollywood soap opera but is really a searing portrait of a marriage and a woman trying to play a role she isn't emotionally suited for: "Harriet Craig" (1950) with Joan Crawford and Wendell Corey. It's based on a play called "Craig's Wife" about a selfish woman more in love with her home and possessions than her husband.

Thanks for mentioning it, FauxPas. There was a silent version of Craig’s Wife as well. The original play was written by George Kelly, a famous playwright in his day but nowadays is probably known best, if at all, as Grace Kelly’s uncle.

[dirac]

Sorry, Patrick, I just saw your post and didn’t mean to ignore it. Susan Lenox is certainly interesting although I’m not sure I’d call it underrated. It’s a curio. Garbo and Gable are a sexy pair in the love scenes but elsewhere they seem not to have met. Certainly it’s worth checking out.

It's certainly much more alive than things like 'Romance', 'Inspiration' and 'As You Desire Me', and she tolerated a worthy male star for a change, Clark Gable. Of course, there were also John Gilbert, Charles Boyer and Robert Taylor (the latter at least looked the part), but she did have co-stars that would seem weak with her even if they were good elsewhere

I think Garbo ‘tolerated’ strong male stars just fine – her pleasure in playing with John Barrymore in Grand Hotel is almost palpable – but in that era of great female stars it wasn’t unusual to see Crawford, Shearer, and Garbo playing opposite actors better characterized as leading men and not co-stars, although Crawford and Gable were teamed regularly. John Gilbert was a huge star in his day, quite Garbo's equal at one point although not when taking the long view.

Most of Garbo’s movies weren’t very good. However, they have Garbo. (Precisely the kind of career Vivien Leigh didn’t want to have. Leigh was a lesser film star, but I don't think she would have envied Garbo in the slightest. )

Thanks, everyone. This is turning into a very interesting thread!

[sidwich]

In case anyone is interested, this is an interesting essay on Arzner and her work, especially "Craig's Wife" and "Dance, Girl, Dance": Geller Essay

[papeetepatrick]

Recently watched Jules Dassin's 'La Loi', which was released in the U.S. with the hilarious paperback 50s title 'Where the Hot Wind Blows'. I think it's a great movie, not as good as 'Rififi', but Dassin is always interesting, touches of Welles and even Visconti here and there, episodes rolling out of each other in the oddest way. Melina Mercouri looks like all the Greek goddesses, and Montand is Macho Superbe. Lollobridgida is better here than anything I've seen her in, and Marcello is good in early role, but outshone by the other three (at least here). Plus there's also Pierre Brasseur as Don Cesar and beautiful b & w photography in Italy (I think it's Italy. There's a lot of talk of Greeks, but everybody speaks French.)

[dirac]

Actually, Spartans did have a star: Burt Lancaster.

Thanks, Ray. Totally forgot!

[Petra]

Ang Lee's "Ride With the Devil". A slightly different look at the American Civil War. It's another example of Ang Lee's incredible aptitude for period movies and his study of American culture. He also drew great performances from his young actors - Tobey Maguire, Jonathan Rhys Meyers and Jewel. Even though they were each in their comfort zone (i.e. a little typecast), they all captured the 'almost grown-up but not quite' feel of teenagers.

I'm not sure how we're defining 'underrated' in this thread, but this one meets my definition because it's less well known and wasn't as well received as Lee's other movies.

[papeetepatrick]

Most of Garbo’s movies weren’t very good. However, they have Garbo. (Precisely the kind of career Vivien Leigh didn’t want to have. Leigh was a lesser film star, but I don't think she would have envied Garbo in the slightest. )

She probably wouldn't have, nor would she have envied stage stars who were superior to her. Not that envy is something to recommend, nor are the diva wars the deepest of dialectics. But what you say somehow broke the spell I was momentarily under, and I've cancelled all my holds on further films: This actress interests me very little, only Scarlett really--she has little generosity and looks like Liz Taylor in 'National Velvet' all the time. Streetcar is Brando's picture, even though I know Williams thought she was great in it. I see her as one of the best stage actresses on film, never as interesting as Olivier except as Scarlett. Even in 'That Hamilton Woman', five minutes of Gladys Cooper refusing Olivier divorce was more riveting than anything Leigh did the entire picture. She's good, but not a great movie star IMO, much like Jean Simmons. Yes, I'd meant to include Barrymore among Garbo's strong men, along with Gilbert, Boyer, March and Taylor. She did not need wimps in those light romances that I named, but I don't know how much she had to do with it. Also do think about half of her films are very good, but this kind of thing is visceral to a degree. Anyway, at very least Anna Christie, Camille and Grand Hotel.

I'll get back on-topic by saying that I think Barbra Streisand's two best films are Hello, Dolly! and Yentl, and they've both been much-criticized (and the criticism is understandable, but still...I think they are underrated, especially the former, which is one of the very small number of near-perfect film adaptations of a B'way musical, probably had a lot to do with Kelly.)

[dirac]

Ang Lee's "Ride With the Devil". A slightly different look at the American Civil War. It's another example of Ang Lee's incredible aptitude for period movies and his study of American culture. He also drew great performances from his young actors - Tobey Maguire, Jonathan Rhys Meyers and Jewel. Even though they were each in their comfort zone (i.e. a little typecast), they all captured the 'almost grown-up but not quite' feel of teenagers.

I think Ride With the Devil qualifies, GWTW. I liked it, too. The Civil War bushwhackers are indeed a relatively neglected film subject.

[papeetepatrick]

Sweet Charity definitely underrated. One of Ms. MacLaine's best.

[Petra]

I'll get back on-topic by saying that I think Barbra Streisand's two best films are Hello, Dolly! and Yentl, and they've both been much-criticized (and the criticism is understandable, but still...I think they are underrated, especially the former, which is one of the very small number of near-perfect film adaptations of a B'way musical, probably had a lot to do with Kelly.)

Oh, I love Barbra Streisand films. My favourite is Funny Girl. I like On a Clear Day too. Streisand is such a diva that her personality always takes over even though you get the feeling that she doing her best just to act. Last night, I caught part of a tribute to Warren Beatty and Streisand (along with a whole bunch of people from Bill Clinton to John McCain ) paid tribute. Streisand was fake complaining that Beatty hadn't chosen her for Bonnie & Clyde or Shampoo. The mind boggles...

[klingsor]

I'll get back on-topic by saying that I think Barbra Streisand's two best films are Hello, Dolly! and Yentl, and they've both been much-criticized (and the criticism is understandable, but still...I think they are underrated, especially the former, which is one of the very small number of near-perfect film adaptations of a B'way musical, probably had a lot to do with Kelly.)

Oh, I love Barbra Streisand films. My favourite is Funny Girl. I like On a Clear Day too. Streisand is such a diva that her personality always takes over even though you get the feeling that she doing her best just to act. Last night, I caught part of a tribute to Warren Beatty and Streisand (along with a whole bunch of people from Bill Clinton to John McCain ) paid tribute. Streisand was fake complaining that Beatty hadn't chosen her for Bonnie & Clyde or Shampoo. The mind boggles...

My favorite Streisand movie is

Nuts (1987)

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093660/

Thought everyone was wonderful in that movie including actors I generally don''t like (Karl Maulden and James Whitmore).

Leslie Nielson was fantastic as the man who raped her.

[dirac]

She probably wouldn't have, nor would she have envied stage stars who were superior to her.

My point was that Leigh wasn't interested in being 'just a movie star, like Cary Grant,' as Olivier rather tactlessly put it on one occasion. You could certainly argue that this was a blinkered view and careers like Garbo's and Grant's were unique and special in their own way.

Also do think about half of her films are very good, but this kind of thing is visceral to a degree

I meant that none of Garbo’s films were of the first rank with the arguable exceptions of Camille and Ninotchka. (She never seems to have been interested in using her clout to get better material, which is too bad.)

Thought everyone was wonderful in that movie including actors I generally don''t like (Karl Maulden and James Whitmore).

Leslie Nielson was fantastic as the man who raped her.

Thanks for reminding me of "Nuts," klingsor. You are right, the acting is very good, and Nielsen actually succeeded in scaring me.

[papeetepatrick]

I meant that none of Garbo’s films were of the first rank with the arguable exceptions of Camille and Ninotchka.

Yes, you can say that, and I couldn't disagree more, but it's the kind of thing that cannot be settled, only stated one way or the other. Nor do I think 'Ninotchka' is at all of the first rank; I think little of it. Many people, myself included, think 'Grand Hotel' and 'Camille' and 'Anna Christie' and 'Queen Christina' (hokiness doesn't mean 'not great', all D.W. Griffith is hokey) are as good as anything Hepburn or Davis or even Olivier or Gary Cooper or Clark Gable or Claudette Colbert made in the same period. And that's all I have to say about this, because it has to do with ways of determining what constitutes 'the first rank', which don't need to be inflexible.

[canbelto]

I've always enjoyed the 1935 film of "Midsummer's Night Dream." I know it gets a bad rap for being too "Hollywood" but it makes the play accessible, there are some lovely visual effects, and at 143 minutes (restored on dvd) it retains a good amount of Shakespeare's text. I love James Cagney as Bottom. The all-American cast isn't exactly Shakesperean but they're never pretentious. I like it.

[cubanmiamiboy]

John Waters' "Female Trouble".

[Neryssa]

"The Paradine Case" (1947) with Gregory Peck, Valli, and Ann Todd. Not one of Hitchcock's greatest or well-known films, it is fascinating. "Shadow of a Doubt" was also an underrated film at the time of its release but it has become a cult film and was reputed to be Hitchcock's favorite.

Neryssa

[papeetepatrick]

Sweet Charity definitely underrated. One of Ms. MacLaine's best.

Do I ever rescind this! Either side of this kind of character better by Judy Holliday or Gwen Verdon. I think Ms. MacLaine may be for me the opposite of an acquired taste. Ricardo Montalban good in endless boring scene; this is mostly pretty tacky. Thank God Holliday didn't drop out of 'Bells Are Ringing', not that that was any great shakes. But she almost did, and said Ms. MacLaine would be right for it.

[Ray]

John Waters' "Female Trouble".

I'm shocked this is underrated. It's a masterpiece!

[dirac]

John Waters' "Female Trouble".

I'm shocked this is underrated. It's a masterpiece!

I'm not sure I'd describe Waters as underrated. He’s a cult figure, which isn’t quite the same thing. If we we were talking about one of his less-heralded effots, then the adjective might qualify, but "Female Trouble" is one of his best-known titles, I think.

[dirac]

"The Paradine Case" (1947) with Gregory Peck, Valli, and Ann Todd. Not one of Hitchcock's greatest or well-known films, it is fascinating. "Shadow of a Doubt" was also an underrated film at the time of its release but it has become a cult film and was reputed to be Hitchcock's favorite.

Neryssa

I've tried to like The Paradine Case, but I can't get through it. But I agree, it would definitely qualify as an underrated film if you wanted to make a case for it, as it were, although I can't really say that I'm up to the job. I would be interested to know more of your thoughts on it, and maybe I'll take another look.

[Roberto Dini]

Here are my two suggestions:

Investigation of a Citizen Above Suspicion (Indagine su un Cittadino Al Di Sopra Di Ogni Sospetto) (1970) R

A police inspector (Gian Maria Volonté) receives a mission to remove local protesters but instead brutally murders his married mistress (Florinda Bolkan). When the homicide team descends on the crime scene, the murderer himself is appointed to lead the investigation, which launches a twisted tale of corruption at every turn.

C.R.A.Z.Y. (2005) NR

There are five boys in the Beaulieu family -- Christian, Raymond, Antoine, Zachary and Yvan. But Zac (played by Emile Vallee and Marc-Andre Grondin) is the only one who's gay. That's why growing up in Montreal alongside his heterosexual brothers and his strict, emotionally distant father (Michel Cote) proves especially challenging for the blossoming outsider, who finds solace in the music of Pink Floyd, the Rolling Stones and David Bowie.

[cubanmiamiboy]

John Waters' "Female Trouble".

I'm shocked this is underrated. It's a masterpiece!

I'm not sure I'd describe Waters as underrated. He’s a cult figure, which isn’t quite the same thing. If we we were talking about one of his less-heralded efforts, then the adjective might qualify, but "Female Trouble" is one of his best-known titles, I think.

I actually thought about the title because every time i address the filmmaker, people seems just to know something about Hairspray, and sometimes Pink Flamingos...I still think that the less known Female Trouble-which i think is better than the other two-doesn't get that much talked about...

[dirac]

You may well be right. I tend to think of Female Trouble as one his more popular films, but I'm not really a Waters expert and could be mistaken.

[cubanmiamiboy]

You may well be right. I tend to think of Female Trouble as one his more popular films, but I'm not really a Waters expert and could be mistaken.

Neither am i, dirac...rather a fan.