BW

Hmm, let's see, the most outrageous one that I've heard recently was that if one always wore their hair pulled tightly back in a pony tail, one's "side burns" would grow in dark and heavy!(Speaking here of females!?) :rolleyes:

Oddly enough, a friend of mine gave me "Lovely Bones" yesterday as a thank you present for taking care of their array of animals while they were away. He'd read it and thought it was incredibly good - he did mention that the author had been raped while she was in college - which is apparently, in part, what "Lucky" is about. Mme. Hermine - I will make a note of the book you mentioned: "Down all the Days" - I loved the movie My Left Foot. Thanks for the recommendation!

Leigh, after you've revived can't you offer a nice little course called "Choreography 101 for non majors"? By now that recovered memory must have faded.

Interesting tidbit rg!

Thanks Allegro - nice analogy. Manhattnik - you are too much! :rolleyes: Also very funny and so right! Glad to say I missed that one.

I know there is usually one put on by The Westchester Ballet Company...and I believe that this group is directly affiliated - http://www.logreadance.com/ although I am not positive. I've never seen their productions, so I can't comment on that aspect.

Still find myself thinking about this subject...and I wonder if anyone might be able to recommend a book on the subject of choreography that would be useful to those of us who are not schooled in it? One of the more interesting threads about choreography, from my point of view, was the one started by Dolphingirl about her summer choreography workshop. Her descriptions of the process by which she came up with her piece, and how she changed it - as it "grew" to performance - where really excellent.

Ari, my "absolution" comment was more of a jest than anything. In the past I used to feel that I hadto finish a book whether I felt like it or not... Sometimes you just need different kinds of books at different times. "The Corrections" may yet emerge from the pile at my bedside.

vagansmom, I had forgotten all about L'Engle's "Crosswicks Journal" - loved them and know exactly what you mean. I'll tell you one thing this thread is doing for me - reminding me that I'd better up my reading quota for the day!! I've fallen way behind.

dirac, you're right about Shaara Sr.'s portrayal of Lee - it was pretty bad ...and he couldn't have been that old then could he? And, by the way, thanks for the absolution in re "The Corrections" ;). 'Watahmill', thanks for the tip.

There have been so many great books mentioned on this thread! I've been meaning to get over here for some time. Interesting that so many have mentioned "Lovely Bones" - I believe I heard the tail end of an interview with the author on NPR fairly recently...and a friend of mine was just given this as a "thank you present" - glad to hear your feelings, Treefrog. I have a confession to make...I could not finish "The Corrections" and I'm not quite sure why. Am just finishing "Rise to Rebellion" by Jeff Shaara - a novel about the American Revolution...I loved his father's book "Killer Angels" and, although I've read several of the son's, I don't think he is anywhere near as good a writer as his father. I have two new books waiting to be started: Edward Villela's autobiography "Prodigal Son" and Thomas L. Friedman's "From Beirut to Jerusalem". And by the way, dirac and any others who've been put off by "The Hobbit" - I agree with the poster who suggested that you just skip it and move on the trilogy of The Rings! P.S. vagansmom, I loved "Saints and Villains" by Denise G. too - an excellent book about the theologian Dietrick Bonhoeffer during WWII.

ronny, thanks for your reply - I'm certainly a "newcomer" too. However, my interest in asking this question about choreography is more along the lines of say, Choreography 101 for non-Music majors. Having taken many an art history course, and not a few English literature and poetry classes, if I try really hard some of it comes back to me;) - the rules, the structure, etc., and this is more along the lines of what my original post was meant to elicit. Alexandra, in reading your post I feel as though I am catching on to what you've written...and wishing I were able to watch the same performance you were writing about because then I think it might be a bit easier to understand. In a way, it's like writing about a specific painting, when we're not looking at it or may never have even seen and yet, if one has seen a number of paintings, one may still be able to learn about their structure and meaning... Am I just muddying the waters here?

My definition of choreography that is successful, is more along the lines of what Paquita wrote: I do know that there are pieces that I've seen that I have not "liked" but oddly enough it's usually due to the music, not the choreography. I can still appreciate the piece, even if I don't particularly care for it. The next time I attend a performance, I am going to try to look at the choreography of the various pieces and try to think, to myself;), about why I think it works or doesn't...but, truth be told, I really prefer to become "one" with it - I suppose, after all, that this is when it really "works" for me.

Thanks Leigh, this sounds like it will be a great opportunity - rather than attending something of this nature along with, say, 50 plus school children or a bus load of ?, to be in an intimate space with accomplished dancers and a choreographer who wants to share the inner workings of the creative process - what more could one ask for?

Or is this just a matter of taste? Don't stone me now you professionals! ;) In the course of reading different threads, as well as listening to comments made after watching a performance, I've come across the phrase "The choreography just doesn't go anywhere." I have to admit that I've never been quite sure what has been meant by this comment.:confused: I am aware that there is "no accounting for taste" when it comes to one person's loving a ballet vs. another's being bored by it, or worse ... However, when one is discussing the choreography as being successful or unsuccessful or "leading" somewhere vs. "not going anywhere"... I am wondering if this means that in looking at the piece from a bare bones perspective or, rather, at the underlying pattern of the steps -- that one feels they just don't "work"? How's that for a vague question?!;)

I, too, saw this performance last night. The scene was almost unreal looking...absolutely breath taking. Although I am sure many audience members were very disappointed not to have been able to attend this concert's live performance, I found the empty chairs to be very moving. I felt that their starkness contrasted with the music and Manhattan skyline was profound and felt, as Ed noted, that it was really a more fitting a tribute.

Kay, you've brought up an interesting point re the male dancer's departures... It would seem to me that they would certainly deserve a send off in their final performance...and that the audience would certainly like to know about their leaving ahead of time, as well. Somehow it just seems so anticlimactic and rather sad. Granted, if someone were leaving because their contract were not renewed or because they felt frustrated and under appreciated, this could change the "gala" approach to their final performance. So, are we to take it that in general there are no "galas" or final performances fro male principals or soloists? Is this true across the board in all countries?

Alexandra, what I meant by that comment was only my somewhat lame attempt at a bit of humor - which apparently fell flat on its face! ;) However, I do think Giannina really hit on it, in her post. I just couldn't help myself from considering that -sometimes - certain, particular, teachers may disparage other teachers' training methods and complain that everyone else's students may have technique (if they're even that generous) and that many times one person's view of, say, musicality, is different from another's... I didn't mean it specifically in regard to these teachers - although I did meet Madame Darvash and she certainly had her strong opinions! I do realize that the general feelings today are that there is a terrible dearth of the 99,999 other things a ballet dancer needs to learn, besides "the correct" technique, and I look forward to reading the book in order to learn how these particular 10 have dealt with this. I also think that it will be quite interesting to take a look back in about 15 years and see what people are saying about today's ballet dancers then - will they be held up as icons, or will we have a resurgence in great training form the earliest days of a young dancer? All of which, puts me in mind of another thread in which the training of young dancers at CPYB is being discussed. Many extol the virtues of both the quantity and the quality of the training available at CPYB and yet, I have also read that some consider their dancer's to be "all about technique". I guess this just brings us back full circle to Giannina's observations!

Alexandra, one does begin to wonder if they protest too much.;) I think I'm going to buy the book anyway!

Xena your question has certainly brought out some opinions, hasn't it? ;) The more I read, the more I see that there are so many opinions! Some people seem diametrically opposed to each other, some share in their views..or agree in theory but may disagree on subtle points... Ballet is an art, after all. Just today I came across a book by Gretchen Ward Warren's, The Art of Teaching Ballet: Ten Twentieth Century Masters, which looks as though it might be very helpful. Just click on the Amazon link, above and type in her name. Here is a quote from the editorial review of the book, posted on their site: "From Library Journal Warren (dance, Univ. of South Florida) is an arts commentator, a former soloist with the Pennsylvania Ballet, and author of the comprehensive Classical Ballet Technique (LJ 1/90). She notes that many books have been written about famous choreographers and dancers but that little has been written about outstanding teachers. Yet the lifeblood of ballet is pedagogy, and the performances in which audiences delight are a result of the dancers' instruction. To better understand the magical transfer of information and artistry, Warren interviewed ten exceptional teachers. They represent different artistic lineages, employ distinctive classroom techniques, and structure a range of varying exercises. Each profile is stimulating, combining philosophical discussion and anecdotal history with sample representative classroom exercises. Ballet teachers will value this addition to the dance literature, and the larger audience of balletomanes will also find it engrossing.-Joan Stahl, National Museum of American Art, Washington, D.C. Copyright 1996 Cahners Business Information, Inc." The ten teachers that Ms. Warren has chosen to highlight in this book are: Marika Besobrasova - Monte Carlo William Christensen - Salt Lake City Janina Cunovas - Victoria, Australia Gabriela Taub-Darvash - NYC David Howard - NYC Larry Long - Chicago Larisa Sklyanskaya - San Francisco Alexander Ursuliak - Stuttgart Christiane Vaussard - Paris Anne Wooliams - Canterbury, England However, should you think that the book is limited to these 10 in it's scope, you might want to check out some of the index pages you can see when you "look inside" the book on Amazon's site - it's quite inclusive, to my mind anyway! See if you think this looks helpful - or interesting. I wonder if anyone on Ballet Talk has read it?

I would love to come out to "the windy city" in October to see The Taming of the Shrew! Thanks so much for asking, but I'm afraid I will just have to see it through your eyes, Treefrog!

Jaana, thank you so much for your review! I found your descriptions of both the performance and your reactions to it to be very well written - to me, you painted the picture very clearly. I wonder if you might find a review and post a link to it here on this thread, so we could read it? It is always interesting to see if a member of the audience has come away with the same impressions as the "critic". I'm not sure if there are any others present on this board who may have seen this performance or not, but I do hope they'll reply as well. Again, Jaana, many thanks for taking up the gauntlet of writing your review of Cinderella for us!

Leigh, thanks for those links - I knew I'd read a discussion earlier on this subject but guess I didn't choose the right "version" of the word in my search. I find it quite interesting to read the different and, sometimes, only slightly different interpretations. I especially enjoyed Michael's turn of the phrase when he wrote: I'm still hoping for a bit more discussion, if that's not beating the subject into the ground. Leigh, you as a choreographer seem to come to the question with what I might dare to call more of an architectural approach. Vagansmom, as a musician, knows the underpinnings of the music - yet still seems to approach this with a more visceral reaction...am I right on this, Vagansmom? Doris R, although I do not know your "musical" background, it seems you are more in Vagansmom's stream. And Alexandra when you write: ...I feel you may be combining these two approaches. Naturally, I am probably simplifying everyone's responses, but this is the "Discovering Ballet" forum, and I do want to try to understand this subject ...so forgive my own more remedial approach! Leigh, I know you have been a dancer...are there any other ballet dancers out there who might give us their views as well? Other choreographers? Just to get some more input and see if there are similarities or differences?

I've heard and read the term "musicality" often and would like to gain a better understanding of it. I suspect that there is more to it than meets the ear. ;) Does it indeed have a technical side to it...as in the way a step is performed? I'm hoping to hear from some of the boards teachers, choreographers and dancers - thanks!

How interesting Doris R - just think of all the different points of view we'll be able to read if everyone posts about their "own" performances? I'll also be interested, especially in light of all the recent press about what's original and what's not, to hear about the differences, as well as the similarities.