papeetepatrick

It still sounds like an interesting idea, though, even if it has gotten nowhere. I'm not sure why, though, either why it sounds like something good could be done like this, or why it's never been very successful. I can imagine a choreographer thinking both a musical composition and a piece of choreography at the same time, and therefore being able to leave out the aural music, leaving only the choreography, which would therefore 'look musical' no matter what, if the talent is high enough in both domains. I'm sure Balanchine could have done this--yes, he's the one that unquestionably could have although there are surely some others--but just didn't find it that attractive an idea. I wonder if he ever thought of it. Mel, would be interested to know what you and others feel about 'Moves'. As the one that has survived, do you think it, at least, is succesful? Do you put it up there with Robbins's other great works?

There's an actress, I think it's Valerie Gearon from the old PBS 'Point Counterpoint', who played Lucy Tantamount--I was reminded of her by Kruger, with the same kind of soigne but decadent presentation. I'd been surprised to like Pitt, since I never do, or rather just don't ever pay much attention to him. I think it's probably because it's really a sentimental-core Hollywood that Tarantino captures because it's his oxygen, (although it's never given me any real pleasure, so this is my last Tarantino for life), and I think that's more embodied in the corny roles. He reminds me of some weird hybrid of David Lynch, Ed Wood, Woody Allen and maybe Howard Hughes even. Lord, what a NERD. What had originally piqued my interest was the 'film within a film', which I thought was going to be some fantastically intricate new 'machine' using all the state-of-the-art techniques, but it was pretty pedestrian, and just made me think 'Purple Rose of Cairo' wins that competition for me, even though I don't care for it. Waltz is definitely excellent, but would have needed to be taller for me to see him as the 'sexy Nazi' he was supposed to embody. He was too squat. I don't know if Oskar Werner could have done this, perhaps too elegant, better at 'courtly German' cliche, as in 'Ship of Fools'. Waltz did occasionally remind me of Max Von Sydow. I seem to be noticing this in casting recently, as Rupert Friend in 'Cheri' just did not have quite the looks for that sort of part; it needed someone like young Alain Delon. But Waltz's technique is impressive in the first scene. I don't think he ever comes close to that again, though. Thought that 'music video' for Ms. Laurent to David Bowie music was just repellent. There's one marvelously hilarious fragment in the basement when the Soldier A is loading and cleaning his rifle, and Soldier B is 'worried' that Soldier A is not calm enough. Soldier A says "I don't seem CALM to YOU?!!" and Soldier B's response 'Well, if you put it that way...yeah...I guess you are...' Nice change from Walter Brennan.

I was just reminded of 'The Damned' of Visconti, which I mentioned on my thread about Tarantino's new 'Inglourious Basterds'. I think it's a great picture, but not everybody agrees, and here you see real bristling Nazi evil, as with Ingrid Thulin and Dirk Bogards, as I remember. Many of his films are worth a look.

And once you're drinking Guiness (which isn't easy to get here on tap, just a few places, whereas literally everywhere in U.K., and obviously Ireland, although I've never been), it's so velvety that you don't drink it in sips, but rather 'pour it down' robustly, not crudely, but it's so voluptuous a drink, different from other beer (forget the bottled versions, one of which I had the other day), that you'd never just sip it--otherwise, you'd have wine instead. I hardly ever get it here, it's very expensive to get on tap, much more than other beers even in the (usually) Irish bars you can get it.

I had to see this for reasons other than pure desire to, but would be interested to hear what others here think about it. Lots of people talking about it now. I don't think I like Tarantino much at all, though, and it all evolves into this tacky stylization with mostly cartoonish characters. There are a few good things in it, and one great thing: The actress Melanie Laurent, the one real human character, although whether Tarantino wanted her to be, I'm not sure. She's a real find, though, incredibly beautiful and very effective in the part of Shoshannah, the one Jewish daughter who escapes when her family is slaughtered by Landa, the Nazi who is called 'the Jew Hunter', and is played by Christoff Waltz. http://movies.nytimes.com/2009/08/21/movie...nglourious.html I didn't think much of this review, too much going on about Waltz, who is good but I didn't think so charimatic a screen presence as the reviewer does. There's an effective basement-tavern scene which evokes for me the long beer hall scene in Visconti's 'The Damned'. The problem for me with Tarantino is that his 'versions' of these imitated films are never satisfying the way any of the originals were, even the hokey John Wayne sorts of things, and everything seems always second-hand. Exception, I think, being Ms. Laurent, who I think will be a major star, not a Tarantino 'muse' like Uma Thurman. (In the same way, I think Naomi Watts was able to be brilliant in Lynch's 'Mulholland Drive', but was able to use it to become a more wide-ranging actress; probably Laura Dern is Lynch's 'muse'. 'Muses' in movies don't seem to be quite like in ballet, although Jean-Pierre Leaud may be thought of as a kind of 'muse' for both Godard and Truffaut, in the Antoine Doinel movies, where it seems to be on a higher level. Any thoughts? Has anybody seen this? Brad Pitt is good in the hokey role, but I thought the two female leads, the other being Diane Kruger as Fraulein Von Hammersmarck, were considerably better than any of the men. Kruger is in the best scene, in which that stereotyped 'Nazi laughter' is well-done', I thought.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/27/arts/tel...;ref=obituaries I've only read a few articles myself, don't even know 'Two Mrs. Grenvilles', but someone will have read him. I just saw the obit just now. I read a good bit of his brother John Gregory Dunne's fiction and essays, which were sometimes very good, although I think Dominick's are more about gloss and celebrity. Someone else will know.

Re-reading Hugh Walpole's early novel 'Fortitude'. It was considered dated early on, but I've always loved it, and first read it when I was 8. There is Peter Westcott, from the abusive father in Cornwall, who goes to London and runs into things way to urban for him, even after he finds some success as a novelist. There are the boarding house people, then the posh Jerry Cardillac and Clare, Peter's sylphlike wife whom he cannot understand. Walpole was outmoded fairly early on, but had a few champions like T.S. Eliot, J.B. Priestley, and Virginia Woolf--fairly predictable group of supporters. I also like one of his Lake District books, 'Vanessa', although I've only read it once.

Blue Bird pas de deux Tchai Pas De Deux Black Swan Pas de Deux Diamonds

GWTW--There are some fine slender, if not exactly 'skinny' singers. Renee Fleming is wonderful, and Kiri Te Kanawa was voluptuous, never fat. These are 'well-upholstered voices' if I ever heard any (like that term, by the way.) Agree that Domingo is not 'trim to scale', but was perhaps more fleshy than fat; I always have thought he looked good. The 'rage' for skinny opera singers is just because, when it's possible, it may be more visually pleasning than obesity (I'm afraid I find it to be by a long shot, since I'm not going to fantastize about Voigt or Caballe no matter how well they sing). Anna Moffo was another fine singer who had a lovely figure, although she may have been mentioned earlier. There are some big women like Leontyne Price, though, that I never think of as being fat, because of the way they carry their bodies so majestically. I guess Nilsson did too, but I am not much of a Nilsson fan--big voice, but some ugly sounds. I would even suggest that, in this category, there are some who are heavy, some who are fat, and some who are obese. I don't object to any of these if they've got the vocal equipment, but Kiri TeKanawa is the only one I ever thought was close to perfect in all ways--the most beautiful and sexy (even though she only did Carmen briefly and felt more comfortable as Micaela), the richest voice, charming personality; although if I had to pick a single singer just for the voice it would be Flagstad and Callas (pardon the Gertrude Stein-ism.)

I saw Robert Stryker (sp?) do a wondeerful solo or two to some Steve Reich in a Village performance space. It may have been two Reich pieces, I know that I was listening to him at that time. One was a repeated spoken piece 'She Was a Visitor', and that only over and over. It was hypnotic at the moment, and everything worked about the evening--one of those magical things that can't be predicted and the dont recur--but I lost interest in his music after that.

I've got the old tapes of the late 40s and 50s, the Mexico city and some Scala, Aida, I Puritani, Vespres Sicilianes, Nabucco, one old Tosca I don't have but that goes back too; and I never heard any lapses, although I'm not doubting you--just never heard anything that stuck out. I'd be interested to know what you mean specifically. And there is simply no comparison to what she did after 54 or 55, those of use who love those early recordings don't even hear it as a the same singer; for me anyway, other than Flagstad, there hasn't been any other opera soprano as Callas was in those early years (and to think she had a career in Greece even before those). Most of the rest of the time, as is well-known, the high notes were often of a strident ugliness that literally hurts the ear. She, of course, had 'problems' in all areas of life, I wouldn't be surprised if her life wasn't a constant fugue state. But I won't even listen to most of the later recordings anymore, the difference is too incredible. (Apologies if I repeated things from other contributors to the thread. This one started well before I arrived, and I've only had time to get through about half the thread just now.) dirac--sorry, I had meant 'not doubting you' originally, and didn't proofread. You may know these recordings better than I do, I just usually find them a lush vocal paradise.

Love the story, Jack. What disturbs me is that I realize I think I never saw 'Umion Jack'! It's like hearing about it all the time was enough, but even worse than that, I might have seen it and forgotten it (but is that possible?)

Very interesting, I've got to tell somebody about this with whom I've been discussing the Mallarme and the Graham, but this cobra ritual is not in the Mallarme, of course. I find 'Herodiade' to be the most disturbing dance I've ever seen in some ways, much more so than 'Night Journey', 'Cave of the Heart', and others. There's that mention of Burma as well when she speaks on the old PBS video of 'Martha Graham Dance Company', when she's talk about a Bumese telling her that 'Cave of the Heart' reminded him/her of 'an elephant gone mad, run amok' (may not be exact quote, close to that). I know this is a little off-topic except for the matter of Graham going more deeply into the Eastern cultures than St. Denis (by a long shot), but is there a term for that movement that Herodius does (and I've seen it in other Graham pieces as well, I think Oedipus does a less frenzied version of it in 'NJ'), when she seems to be about to go forward, but she can't go forward, she stays in place. There's a long one of these maybe in the last 7 minutes or so when she is doing this, trying to move. What's amazing is that with every thrust forward, she does convince you (this is the Japanese dancer, I can't remember the name, but not the earlier Yuriko) that she'll be able to, and I think there really is no movement forward at all, unless it's necessary to move just a bit to get the effect.

My memory may be serving me ill here, but I think the quote is not quite exact. I also think it arose at a performance of Dutch National Ballet because the bon mot was being repeated as we were leaving the theatre where male nudity had just been exhibited. I cannot help but be reminded of the anecdotal exchange: OSCAR WILDE: I wish that I'd said that. JAMES WHISTLER: Don't worry, Oscar, you will. I'm not sure what you wish you'd said. When you were looking, there were two things I'd wish I'd said. Now there are three, but there's a hidden Firbankalism which I especially envy. , although I guess it's the David Bowie you're referring to. , 'BonMots Keep Swingin'...

Glorious singer, and looked wonderful as well as Isolde. I prefer her to Birgit Nilsson's occasionally hard sound. Not sure, maybe favourite, except Flagstad on recordings, is Waltraude Meier, though.

I don't think i had seen that clip of St. Denis dancing. Is that the only one? I had thought I'd seen a bit of her old dancing on that video, but must not be, because I don't remember her as big blonde woman. I could be confusing her with Humphrey's old clip before the Ernestine Stoedehl (sp?), which is not very admirable mistake ot make, but I still had thought I saw St. Denis. I guess not, though. I want to watch it some more, she does have a presence, I'm not exactly sure what else to say from such a short bit. Thanks for posting it, Simon. Yes, it's lovely and fluid, but oh my, she does look like Marilyn Monroe in it, or is that just the old film? I think she's gorgeous, and can see the element that would make Martha want to emulate her.

Yes, and you hear this somehow in the music. He is not a great composer outside composing for dance. None of the dances I've seen for Graham--El Penitente, 'Frontier', some others, are nearly as meaningful to me as what she did with Schuman, Copland, Dello Joio, Menotti, Barber, and so on, but they're bright and brisk too, you just wouldn't care to hear them by themselves, or at least I wouldn't.

Is this one part entirely accurate, Simon--I don't mean the 'originator of technique' part, but rather the 'direct inspiration'? Didn't Graham continue worshipping St. Denis, at least in her own dancing, didn't she want to have that kind of imperious image that she had adored in St. Denis, even though this was unrequited? I think that's what McDonach was saying, anyway. And it occurs to me that, in that one way, she wouldn't have been able to be quite as imperious at least in the statuesque sense, because so small (refresh me on St. Denis's height, though, but surely she was taller than Graham). Anway, Graham was never the same after seeing St. Denis in that Los Angeles theater. I don't mean in the choreography, but I had just gotten the impression that she really always longed for some of St. Denis's brand of magnetic persona in her stage personality. I still hope someone will say something about westernizing orientalisms in the arts in general, that must have been by the time it was well under way, long after Commodore Perry in Japan (I think, my history is not good here) and Japanese influences on 18th century French and English porceleins, etc., just throwing out a couple of ideas here. In a way, although I agree with the superficiality of St. Denis's orientalisms, could you tell me, Simon, that it SHOULD have been possible even by that time to go much deeper, this was a rather late stage of this kind of importing, and probably some others really did go much deeper. Thanks.

Yes, I remember from the McDonagh how interesting that St. Denis was so dismissive of Graham, and he often pointed out how Graham idolized her. Finally, St. Denis grudgingly said something on the order of 'well, Martha Graham does have a real technique, I'll say that for her." (I don't have the book at hand, that's close enough unless rg has time to make it perfect. So Shawn was very important in terms of Graham. I didn't read the entire thread that carefully, but it wasn't that long ago I watched the snipped of St. Denis's own dancing, very brief, maybe what you linked up there, and maybe 12 or so St. Denis pieces, which I think Simon characterizes well as being 'superficial-Oriental'. I think most 'western orientalisms of the time were like that, weren't they, in all of the arts? Don't know whether you mentioned the Javanese and Balinese in the Graham Notebooks, Simon, maybe so, just adding to what you said about flexed foot of American Indians, although I can't remember if that's especially featured in 'El Pentitente' or not. No, that's not sad, it was her business. People love people for all sorts of ill-shaped reasons. His exhibitionism is of no importance, except it it CAUSED him to be an inferior artist. Nureyev was certainly an exhitionist (okay, I don't want to argue this, so STRAVINSKY referred to him that way). But what you said about his being of importance to Martha by default still holds, although obviously true St. Denis was lightweight in terms of that she was important more as a presursor to what came from her school. Agree with you there, and you can't really understand Shawn without this material, it could be things like 'get their kit off'. you know. Okay, if you can use 'their kit', I guess I can use 'my kit' too. Although I do not want to use 'your kit'. Never heard THAT till now, you CORRUPTOR! Anyway, it IS silly season, a term I also never heard used till I came to Ballet Talk. But leonid probably just tired of hearing about endless 'hand relief' stories, you know what I mean? We've heard a LOT of things like that recently here. It's not just the seedier side number, Simon, it's that you're VULGAR in the way you describe it, as in the Gold Rains Episode. (just kidding, of course, I don't mind it personally, but it's also true, you know you love to say these racy, screamy things.

I wonder if this happens frequently, I mean that one doesn't. I'm not gay, but as an Occasional Bisexualist, I like to gawk at the bosums.

Hey, good point, and I've done that with the Ashton a whole lof ot times, as an experiment when I was really studying the ballet and working the piece at the piano. It's just like looking at a scene out of Proust, maybe the second volume, at Balbec, those big hotels by the sea in the old days, but combined with some more Parisian and English flavours too, because you wouldn't see dinner jackets at the ocean. A ballroom somewhere, yeah, maybe in London, close to St. James Park maybe, near all the gentleman's clubs? A friend and i were talking about that area recently.

I thought it was ENDLESS.

Welcome, tyron, sorry we took so long to get to your post, happens sometimes. There are others here from South Africa. If you have anything on ballet in South Africa, we'd like to hear it, and there's also a Modern and Other Dance, where I'd personally like to hear about some of the dance you may have seen in your home country.

That's all right to ask for five, but you ought to reconsider and decide on 10-15. If you're really interested, five is way too little, and you'd want more. I really think a minimum of 15 is necessary, so I'm not going to say anything specific. That's okay if you want to do it this way, but it's not really realistic IMO, if you're really interested. To me, it brings to mind ads I've seen on the subway 'What's your Fave five?' I just can't do it meself hee hee.

I read 'What Makes Sammy Run?' a few years ago, thoroughly enjoyed it. One of the best novels about the movie industry, I think it was supposed to be based on Jerry Wald, the producer.