Godunov and Bejart

[Meliss]

15 minutes ago, volcanohunter said:

If anyone displayed signs of envy, it was Bujones, with his public complaints of being unjustly overshadowed by Baryshnikov or his demand that a ballet be choreographed on him because choreographers frequently made ballets on Baryshnikov. 

I understand Bujones very well. He wasn't complaining, he was surprised. He really danced no worse - but Baryshnikov was an absolute champion in advertising himself.

[volcanohunter]

4 hours ago, Helene said:

Pre-pandemic, if another company was performing L'Allegro, I probably would have been on a plane.  I've traveled more than once to see MMDG perform it.

L'Allegro appears to be a MMDG exclusive. In fact, the list of Morris works available for licensing doesn't include any that he made for his own company.

After You (ABT, 2015)
Beaux (SFB, 2012)
Drink to Me Only With Thine Eyes (ABT, 1988)
A Garden (SFB, 2001)
Gong (ABT, 2001)
Joyride (SFB, 2008)
Kammermusik no. 3 (PNB, 2012)
The Letter V (Houston Ballet, 2015)
Maelstrom (SFB, 1994)
Pacific (SFB, 1995)
Sandpaper Ballet (SFB, 1999)
Silhouettes (Maximum Dance Company, 1999)
Sylvia (SFB, 2004)
Up and Down (Boston Ballet, 2006)

[Helene]

1 hour ago, Meliss said:

By "they" I didn't mean Dilingham and Bujones, but Dilingham and other ABT officials. They were not against Bejart's ballet - and suddenly they got against it!

What other ABT officials, where did they voice opposition, and if they were opposed, what were they opposed to? 

Dillingham was the head of ABT's administrative side, and only the Board and Artistic Director outranked him.  No one lower than Dillingham could have spoken for ABT, and without his agreement, what they thought was meaningless.

Edited to combine responses:

44 minutes ago, Meliss said:

but Baryshnikov was an absolute champion in advertising himself.

His dancing, especially his technique alone, did much of his advertising for him.

Baryshnikov defected at a time when the Cold War narrative was still going strong, and the press was all over it.  The people who helped him in the West were influential.  ABT needed him, and appeared to have "won" him in the contest, which put him smack in the middle of the NYC press.  He would not have had nearly the same impact had he joined National Ballet of Canada, for example.  Nureyev was a star guest in America, but on his own or as a member of the Royal Ballet or, later, Paris Opera Ballet, where he performed (weakly, IMO) in the 1986 tour.  Baryshnikov, by being NYC-based, became one of our "own."  Like him or not, preferring Bujones or not, preferring Nureyev or not, thinking that NYCB was really where it was at, and the classics at ABT and/or Twyla Tharp were a snooze, it's hard to underestimate the size and impact of the influence Baryshnikov had, artistically and as a political symbol, during the dance boom, which was already fading by the time Godunov defected.

Baryshnikov also was willing to perform in dance films in little disguised versions of himself, something that Godunov turned down.  I thought Baryshnikov was terrific in "Sex and the City" playing a visual artist, which was closer to his interests at the time, given the range of work supported by the Baryshnikov Arts Center.  And he was willing to play such an awful person by the end of his story line, that people were rooting for Sarah-Jessica Parker's character, Carrie, to get back together with Big, a lying, cheating, selfish creep.   Which was quite the accomplishment.

[Drew]

55 minutes ago, Meliss said:

I understand Bujones very well. He wasn't complaining, he was surprised. He really danced no worse - but Baryshnikov was an absolute champion in advertising himself.

Baryshnikov’s was not, as the saying goes “my” dancer, but he was a remarkable dancer and artist. Early in Bujones’’ career, when he was first complaining publicly about being overlooked because of attention given to Baryshnikov, I certainly found Baryshnikov’s performances more satisfying—more complete artistically. I did not see Bujones later in his career—I assume he developed and I do not deny he was a great dancer, but using him as a club to beat Baryshnikov is strange to me. Finding someone’s story compelling in a book is very different from watching them on stage. Even video is only ever a tiny—and often deceptive—record of the story. (I stopped watching video of Makarova because I felt it failed to capture what made her wonderful and risked distorting my own memories.)
 

No question that being a defector gained Baryshnilov a great deal of attention— but at least one highly influential U.S. based critic (Croce) was raving about him before the defection. And his performances in the West (some more than others) completely justified the attention and praise he received. I didn’t love every performance I saw him give and I didn’t love everything he did as director of ABT, but I am beyond grateful for a number of his performances. I will mention one in particular from his time as director of ABT —the male role or “poet” in Les Sylphides, a role in which he seemed to channel the music with the utmost purity.

Edited July 6 by Drew

[Helene]

I thought there were three remarkable parts of Bujones book.  The first was the way he about the love and passion he felt for his first wife.  Not just the honeymoon phase, but throughout their marriage, with descriptions of family life as well as  romantic vacations.  Until I got to their move to Brasilia so that she could be immersed in politics, I would have thought she was either his first and last wife, or if he remarried, it was because he was a widower.  There was so little bitterness at their split, followed by his acknowledgement that he really didn't like being alone, which wasn't surprising, since he hadn't been his entire life until the divorce.

The entire chapter about Varna was more interesting to me than the rest of his performing career.  What a different time.

The last  was that he had a private coach for his entire schooling and career, and so did many of his partners through him.  Even under time crunch, the methodical way that Mendez broke down roles and worked on characters with him and his partners and built the roles back again was fascinating and insightful.  It's hard to imagine that this experience was not something invaluable for his partners as well. 

In the most recent Swan Lake performances that PNB did, there were several repeats and several debuts: I saw all but the dancer who became injured.  It's not that many dancers haven't been watching every last YouTube video and DVD that they can, even of the full ballets and not just the greatest hits, but that approach is limited by where the camera is, and often, that's on someone else, with Odette or Odile out of the frame, for example, or, more often, Siegfried out of it.   It was clear which dancers had a reason for every gesture and expression, even if they weren't the center of attention, or even if they were slowly walking upstage with their back to the audience, and which hadn't yet thought the entire thing through, even if they were wonderful in the famous parts.'  PNB does have a coaching staff, and there are a few former PNB ballerinas who were lauded as Odette/Odile, on the teaching staff, but it would never be that intensity of coaching.

The kind of coaching that Bujones had gave him the ability to know what he was supposed to be at every point in any ballet, but with an outside editor who cut him no slack.  I didn't see him often enough to see how successful he was across the board, but the few times I saw him, I felt like I was seeing a complete performance.

[Meliss]

9 hours ago, Helene said:

What other ABT officials, where did they voice opposition, and if they were opposed, what were they opposed to? 

Dillingham was the head of ABT's administrative side, and only the Board and Artistic Director outranked him.  No one lower than Dillingham could have spoken for ABT, and without his agreement, what they thought was meaningless.

"Finally, just one week before the season opener, Dillingham called Zeida and from their conversation it seemed everything would be resolved, so we were relieved. "I see no major obstacles in trying to make the new Bejart ballet work for the next year" he said to her. But the following day he called again! This time his normal tone of voice had a very different ring to it. He was curt and brief saying that my demands of a new work could not be met, "because the company was not in a position to do this." 

Apparently, Dilingham changed his mind after talking to some ABT officials - most likely with Baryshnikov. That's exactly what I meant.

9 hours ago, Helene said:

His dancing, especially his technique alone, did much of his advertising for him.

Bujones' technique, according to some ballet critics, surpassed Baryshnikov's technique.

9 hours ago, Helene said:

The people who helped him in the West were influential.

Why did they decide to help him? Why didn't they decide to help Bujones, for example?

 

8 hours ago, Helene said:

I

9 hours ago, Helene said:

He would not have had nearly the same impact had he joined National Ballet of Canada, for example. 

 

Yes, that's it. With the same technique. Obviously, it's not about the technique.

9 hours ago, Helene said:

 Baryshnikov, by being NYC-based, became one of our "own."  Like him or not, preferring Bujones or not, preferring Nureyev or not, thinking that NYCB was really where it was at, and the classics at ABT and/or Twyla Tharp were a snooze, it's hard to underestimate the size and impact of the influence Baryshnikov had, artistically and as a political symbol, during the dance boom, which was already fading by the time Godunov defected.

 

He gained this influence because of his connections with the right high-ranking or very rich people. Bujones was more suited to the role of "our own" - he was an American. But he was just great at dancing, not doing his promotion. Just like Godunov.

 

9 hours ago, Helene said:

Baryshnikov also was willing to perform in dance films in little disguised versions of himself, something that Godunov turned down. 

It's true. Godunov did not want to play himself and similar roles. And how cool it would be to watch a feature film with him now, where he would dance! To hell with this high art... but no, he took his job seriously. Too seriously.

[Meliss]

 

19 hours ago, Drew said:

No question that being a defector gained Baryshnilov a great deal of attention— but at least one highly influential U.S. based critic (Croce) was raving about him before the defection.

This highly influential critic (Croce) instead of analyzing Godunov's dancing, criticized his perfect legs! I wonder why. As for raving before the defection, she was not the only one who did it. That's what Anna Kisselgoff wrote about Godunov in 1973: "Looking somewhat like a tall blond Prince Valiant, he has a flashy appeal and ability to dance at a phenomenal speed that mark him as a 20‐century dancer. At the same time, his technique is stylish, classical and of top virtuoso quality".

[Helene]

11 hours ago, Meliss said:

Apparently, Dilingham changed his mind after talking to some ABT officials - most likely with Baryshnikov. That's exactly what I meant.

In his role Dillingham would have been 1. Given specific administrative responsibilities, that could be vetoed or sanctioned by the Board  2, Been delegated explicit artistic-related responsibilities by Baryshnikov 3. Made similar decisions in the past and believed he had the authority to make them in Bujones case, but was overruled by Baryshnikov in the Bujones/Bejart case.  The third is a plausible reason for Dillingham's tone to have changed, since few people like to be embarrassed by being overruled, when they thought they had the authority to make a decision on behalf of an organization. 

I would be confused if someone had described Grigorovich as "some Bolshoi officials."  Baryshnkov was the Artistic Director and had final authority over artistic manners.  It was Dillingham's job to get Baryshnikov's approval for, at minimum, major artistic matters, like a new ballet, even if everything had he presented to Baryshnikov had been rubber-stamped in the past. The Board could have overruled both of them, but the Board composition at the time suggested otherwise, even if Boards have been known to sanction and fire Artistic Directors for spending money they don't have.  (The private sponsor offer came later.)

 

11 hours ago, Meliss said:

Bujones' technique, according to some ballet critics, surpassed Baryshnikov's technique.

Critics disagree.  Good/great reviews are useful to companies to sell tickets, and for quotes/citations in memoirs and biographies.    Croce and Barnes both thought Baryshnikov, for whom multiple choreographers made new roles while he was still at the Kirov, was extraordinary when he danced with the Kirov.  They had whatever opinions of Godunov that they had.  Critics very often praise multiple dancers and even for the same roles.

One ABT dancer once said that she never read critics, because (paraphrase) she knew Critic A would always hate her and Critic B would always love her, so it became meaningless.  Balanchine always told his dancers to ignore the critics, because his opinion was the only one that mattered. He said it out loud, but that's why, at the end of the day, it's your boss who controls your experience with a company, unless someone higher up the food chain thinks otherwise, for better or worse.

11 hours ago, Meliss said:

Why did they decide to help him? Why didn't they decide to help Bujones, for example?

Because they were interested in helping him, and they weren't interested in helping Bujones, just like the woman who offered to pay for the Bejart ballet didn't offer to pay for a Baryshnikov ballet.  Obviously Bujones didn't need help to defect, and helping someone to defect, was, to some people, more important in the grand scheme of life.

11 hours ago, Meliss said:

Yes, that's it. With the same technique. Obviously, it's not about the technique.

Baryshnikov would have been dancing with the same technique had he been dancing in Ulaanbaatar, Minsk, San Francisco, Toronto, Birmingham, Lyons, etc.  It would not have been recognized in the way it was in NYC, because almost all of the major dance press in the US was centered in NYC, just as it is in Paris and London.  And, aside from major companies that toured to other parts of the US, and sometimes not even then, if it didn't happen in NYC, it might as well not have existed.

For NY-based critics, it was about the technique in Baryshnikov's case, and it's still gold standard today in the US. 

11 hours ago, Meliss said:

He gained this influence because of his connections with the right high-ranking or very rich people. Bujones was more suited to the role of "our own" - he was an American. But he was just great at dancing, not doing his promotion. Just like Godunov.

"Our own" = "Our own defector."  Russian defectors were prizes, and American audiences still bought into the "Russian must be better" in classical piano and violin, classical conducting, and traditional and Soviet ballet.   Baryshnikov's Varna "first" , even if Junior, was > Bujones' Varna "first.  So the US, which really meant NYC, had its own prize male defector with Baryshnikov.  Obviously, Makarova had been already dancing at ABT, but, for her, style and training -- the upper back and arms, especially -- were her calling cards, not virtuoso technique.  Dancing is to this day considered a questionable profession for men, even if less so than then, and boys watching Baryshnikov on TV became interested in learning to jump and spin and be that guy with great comic ability in Push Comes to Shove, ie, not that stodgy Albrecht in tights stuff.

Plus the notions of height and type in determining casting that was so rigid in Europe and the Soviet Union wasn't nearly as entrenched with critics and audiences here.  Baryshnikov could have danced Spartacus and most people here would not have been clutching their pearls.  It wasn't our entrenched tradition or history, whereas in our own traditions, even adopted ones like Balanchine's neoclassicism, we'd be the first to question a tall dancer as Prodigal Son.  

Bujones had his own major and influential supporters, like the patron who offered to fund the Bejart ballet.  He had a massive amount of press, even before Baryshnikov arrived.  (He quotes them far more than needed in his book.)  He had worldwide recognition as a guest.   He rose up the ranks quickly and was given great rep, even if it always wasn't the rep he wanted.  As a very young male star member of the company, he could say, "I'm not going to dance in the Fall season" when he didn't like the rep he'd been given or "I'm not joining you for that part of the tour," at a time touring was ABT's bread and butter, and audiences were greatly anticipating his performances.   Bujones and Mendez were great at promoting him, excellent at exploiting and creating opportunities for him, and getting him plum assignments, great contracts for many years, and lots of money and perks.  He did better without ABT than he did in the second half of his ABT career; he certainly describes being more fulfilled.   He just wasn't as famous as Baryshnikov. 

Obviously, Godunov didn't have a chance to establish himself at ABT, the way that Bujones did under Chase and her vision for ABT.  He was there for a very short time, and his type of dancing wasn't as generally appealing as Baryshnikov's to NYC audiences.  Godunov did not fit into Baryhsnikov's plans for the company, and Baryshnikov tolerated Bujones, one of the holdovers, for a few years, until he chose not to, but Bujones had the advantage of rising through the company without Principal Dancer expectations from the moment he set foot on the stage.

 

[volcanohunter]

I think Baryshnikov was more stylistically adaptable than Bujones, which would have been a big advantage when working on new ballets. I'm not saying that he was an entirely convincing jazz dancer by the time of the Baryshnikov on Broadway television program in 1980, but more convincing than Ethan Stiefel in Center Stage (🫣), if not as convincing as Robert La Fosse. By the time of the Baryshnikov Dances Balanchine program on PBS in 1989, I was struck by the imagination and individuality with which he danced his solo from Who Cares? I thought it was more successful than the standard NYCB approach (which couldn't be said of his ABT co-stars). Baryshnikov had an insatiable curiosity where dance was concerned. 

When Bujones appeared as a guest with the Béjart company in late 1985, his performance was criticized for being too academic and stiff, unlike that of the other guest artist on the tour, Éric Vu An. (Anna Kisselgoff credited Vu An's French training.) Bujones remained a paragon of classicism.

[Helene]

For all of the advantages Baryshnikov had in classical ballet because of his technique, his strengths in other works were his curiosity and his willingness to not be successful, let alone not as successful.  For example, he was willing to dance alongside Mark Morris and Rob Besserer in one of the White Oak Project works I saw, and he was not even the second most interesting dancer on stage.   How many star dancers are willing to experiment repeatedly in front of live audiences, results be what they may, for their own sense of interest and fulfillment?

[Meliss]

11 hours ago, Helene said:

In his role Dillingham would have been 1. Given specific administrative responsibilities, that could be vetoed or sanctioned by the Board  2, Been delegated explicit artistic-related responsibilities by Baryshnikov 3. Made similar decisions in the past and believed he had the authority to make them in Bujones case, but was overruled by Baryshnikov in the Bujones/Bejart case. 

Thus, Baryshnikov was against Bejart staging a ballet for Boujones at the ABT. But he couldn't explain the reason. Probably because the reason was envy.

12 hours ago, Helene said:

Croce and Barnes both thought Baryshnikov, for whom multiple choreographers made new roles while he was still at the Kirov, was extraordinary when he danced with the Kirov.  They had whatever opinions of Godunov that they had. 

I think Croce was unfair to Godunov. Perhaps it was because she saw him as a competitor to Baryshnikov.

12 hours ago, Helene said:

One ABT dancer once said that she never read critics, because (paraphrase) she knew Critic A would always hate her and Critic B would always love her, so it became meaningless.  Balanchine always told his dancers to ignore the critics,

Nevertheless, criticism has a great impact.

12 hours ago, Helene said:

they were interested in helping him, and they weren't interested in helping Bujones, just like the woman who offered to pay for the Bejart ballet didn't offer to pay for a Baryshnikov ballet.  Obviously Bujones didn't need help to defect, and helping someone to defect, was, to some people, more important in the grand scheme of life.

What was their benefit? Financial? Political? Or did they help him completely selflessly - they just liked him? And how did they help him? Did they offer him appearances in prestigious programs, provide media coverage? Couldn't he have done it himself, with his talents?

12 hours ago, Helene said:

"Our own" = "Our own defector."  Russian defectors were prizes

For official circles? I don't know... Well, Baryshnikov starred in the anti-Soviet film "White Nights". So what? It was like a mosquito bite for the USSR). It seems that none of the ballet defectors made any political statements.

 

12 hours ago, Helene said:

Dancing is to this day considered a questionable profession for men

I think this is due to the fact that many dancers had a non-traditional orientation. Even some of those who were married. 

12 hours ago, Helene said:

Plus the notions of height and type in determining casting that was so rigid in Europe and the Soviet Union wasn't nearly as entrenched with critics and audiences here.  Baryshnikov could have danced Spartacus and most people here would not have been clutching their pearls. 

Baryshnikov danced the roles of the classical repertoire in the USSR as well. The main thing was to find a partner of small stature. But there would be problems with Spartacus. It's hard to find so many short guys in the corps de ballet to harmonize with him.

12 hours ago, Helene said:

Bujones had his own major and influential supporters, like the patron who offered to fund the Bejart ballet.  He had a massive amount of press, even before Baryshnikov arrived.  (He quotes them far more than needed in his book.) 

Yes, I also noticed that he liked to brag. But all artists are more or less vain.

 

12 hours ago, Helene said:

Obviously, Godunov didn't have a chance to establish himself at ABT, the way that Bujones did under Chase and her vision for ABT.  He was there for a very short time, and his type of dancing wasn't as generally appealing as Baryshnikov's to NYC audiences. 

This is an eternal mystery not for me alone. 

12 hours ago, Helene said:

Godunov did not fit into Baryhsnikov's plans for the company

His plans were to disperse the stars and work with young artists. It wasn't a good idea. Not to mention the moral side of the issue.

[Helene]

I don't read Russian and would have had no access to Russian press anyway, but did Grigorovich explain his artistic decisions?  An Artistic Director here doesn't need to explain their decisions to anyone but the Board, and those are private discussions, unless one or both parties make it public.  He chose not to go with the generic, PR-friendly, "It does not fit into our plans for the upcoming season."

There could have been many reasons for Baryshnikov to have vetoed a Bejart ballet, including how the pre-publicity for it, pretty much guaranteed to be negative, would not have been worth the critical failure it was likely to be, at least in the NY press.

If his reasons were truly personal, he could have allowed Bujones to be part of an epic fail, which would have shut down any further requests by Bujones for new ballets.  

But there's no evidence, and, as the saying goes, "Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts."

"White Nights" was released 11 years after Baryshnikov's defection, by which time he had established himself as a superstar dancer, was a central character in a few movies -- he received a best supporting actor Oscar nomination in 1977 for The Turning Point -- danced with NYCB, was Artistic Director of ABT, and had his resignation rejected by the ABT Board, leaving him to do however much he wanted with the company while his name remained on the masthead.   His internal, ie, US, narrative was long established by then. And few in the US cared what the Soviets thought one way or another about White Nights, a for-profit movie.  (I would have gone to see it regardless of who was dancing in it, because Helen Mirren, daughter of a Russian emigre to Great Britain, was in it, and I'd loved her since seeing her first in "Excalibur," in which she was spectacularly cheesy.)

It's far from mystery why NY audiences would not have taken to Godunov: his style was antithetical to the then-current styles in dance, both in ballet and modern dance.  There were a minority who disliked the current style and  loved his, others who didn't like it at all and avoided it (and any Bolshoi tours), and others who liked it in small doses, as a treat, but wouldn't want to see it on a regular basis or have ABT aspire to adopting it.  He was always going to be a fish out of water stylistically as a regular member of a company, unless he changed his style, the way Peter Martins did, for example, at NYCB, while Erik Bruhn did not last there. 

The Board enabled Baryshnikov to change the company, which they called modernization.  It was considered a failure , and he and his Board supporters were able to walk away from the mess, but that was the prerogative of the people in charge, and it was their responsibility, ultimately.

 

[Meliss]

11 minutes ago, Helene said:

did Grigorovich explain his artistic decisions? 

The bosses are the same everywhere. Grigorovich explained his decisions very simply. For example, he told the dancer who wanted to play a role, "I don't see you in this role".

15 minutes ago, Helene said:

If his reasons were truly personal, he could have allowed Bujones to be part of an epic fail, which would have shut down any further requests by Bujones for new ballets.  

It could have been a great success, but Baryshnikov could not allow that.

18 minutes ago, Helene said:

and had his resignation rejected by the ABT Board

I guess they appreciated the big cost savings above all, since he worked without pay.

23 minutes ago, Helene said:

It's far from mystery why NY audiences would not have taken to Godunov: his style was antithetical to the then-current styles in dance, both in ballet and modern dance. 

That's what I'm trying to figure out, but I can't. If we compare their performances (with Baryshnikov) in Don Quixote, Giselle, Swan Lake - will we notice these differences in their style? These are classical ballets, in fact there are not so many opportunities for stylistic differences. As for the modern dance, Godunov danced it perfectly well with Plisetskaya. It was quite all right stylistically. By the way, Helene, in what performances did you see Godunov?

[Drew]

In New York where Balanchine set much of critical and audience taste, Bejart looked very different than he looked in Europe. Was one taste better or more 'correct' than another? Well, depending on who you ask you will get a very different answer. Bujones was open to Bejart  as an important choreographer worth working with but, at that time in New York, even a different director of ABT than Baryshnikov might have thought, 'no, not for us;'  As @Helene and others have said, what Baryshnikov's actual motives were we can't know.

 Edwin Denby didn't make @Meliss 's list of famous American dance critics--likely that was going too far into the past--but he was a 20th-century poet and writer on the arts who was also an influential and famous dance critic, and he wrote an article in 1953 called "Superficial thoughts on Foreign Classicism" that came to a rather ironic conclusion on a related topic--different schools/styles of classical dancing. (And, I would say that there is plenty of room for stylistic differences in classical dancing--even within national traditions.) But here is Denby:

"I was curious abroad to find out if there were some particular regional style [of classical ballet] that was accepted as the best, and asking everywhere I found a general unanimity of opinion. The wisest fans were all agreed that, despite a few obvious defects, the one classic style that they felt in their hearts to be the most exciting, the most lovable and beautiful, was the style of their own country. I could not disagree with any of them, for I felt, so to speak, the same way..."

Edited July 8 by Drew

[Helene]

Baryhnikov wasn't speaking to a dancer directly: this was a contract negotiation between Bujones representative and ABT's.  Direct conversations with dancers work quite differently than contract negotiations,  In this final contract negotiation, Mendez asked for a new ballet as part of the contract, and Dillingham ultimately refused.  Sometimes reasons are offered, and sometimes they are not, always part of negotiation tactics.  It was not in this case, but that wouldn't have been unusual. Bujones wasn't owed anything except an answer.

It is unlikely that a Bejart ballet would have been a great success in NYC, based on the  history of Bejart works in NYC.  It wasn't a great success in LA, when it was finally done. 

You don't need to compare Godunov and Baryshnikov in the same roles to understand the huge difference in style, which were obvious when they both danced classical works, even different works, and Godunov's style was not preferred.  In another time or another city it might have been, but in NYC, he was a fish out of water stylistically.

All of my programs from the time were ruined, so I can't give a list, but they were all classical.  I would see whatever ABT was playing with whatever cast when I visited NYC up to and around the time he joined ABT.  I had followed the news of his defection, so I knew a bit about him, but, having seen him, he was fine, but not my type of dancer, and not one that I would buy tickets to see after I moved back to NYC -- he was still dancing -- but I might have seen him in a mixed bill where someone or rep I wanted to see was playing.  I happened to agree with the majority in Godunov's case, but, in many other cases, I've been firmly in the minority.

I wish I had seen him in The Moor's Pavane, though.   The first time I'd seen it live was in Seattle, many years later. I'd never seen Limon's company perform it live, and I was very happy to see the films on YouTube.

[Meliss]

1 hour ago, Drew said:

what Baryshnikov's actual motives were we can't know.

That is, do you think Baryshnikov behaved correctly and decently in this situation with Bujones? I do not think so. I don't think he behaved decently when he didn't renew his contract with Godunov. In both cases, he was obliged to explain his position, listen to the other side, and try to find a solution that would suit everyone. That would be human. He turned on the boss, kicked out the stellar quality dancers, and even babbled in the press about allegedly offering Godunov a vacation due to a lack of repertoire for him. If you justify him in everything, maybe he did the right thing when he called Gelsey "stupid" for coming on stage without waiting for Baryshnikov's applause to stop? I suppose he behaved differently with his "influential patrons".

As for Denby, I disagree with him. The country has nothing to do with it at all. Nureyev, Baryshnikov and Godunov were from the same country.

Edited July 8 by Meliss

[Meliss]

1 hour ago, Helene said:

You don't need to compare Godunov and Baryshnikov in the same roles to understand the huge difference in style, which were obvious when they both danced classical works, even different works, and Godunov's style was not preferred.  In another time or another city it might have been, but in NYC, he was a fish out of water stylistically.

I wonder when he became a "fish out of water" stylistically? In 1980, 81 and 82 - his contracts were concluded without problems. With a "fish"?)) Some kind of murky story with this unfounded criticism. And most importantly, you can't watch it, there are no videos left from that period. 

February 12, 1980 at 7:00 p.m. EST

Soviet ballet dancer Alexander Godunov's first post-defection American stage appearance in Chicago Monday was punctuated with applause and received a two-minute ovation.

By Liz Nakahara and Jamie Schwartz

 

September 6, 1981,

New York Times

Today, he commands high fees - $10,000 or more for a single guest appearance - and is a top drawing card at American Ballet Theater.

I can't find the text of William Como's article from this magazine(1981, August) , there is only a Russian text. If you translate it into English, it turns out like this:

"Difficult to communicate and at times brash, he can also be witty and open. This ambivalence and charisma irritate highbrow critics who like to make fun of him. But it doesn't matter. Their sarcasm - "horse face", "tall blond dancer with too long hair and girlish legs", "looks graceful only when not dancing" - does not bother him. His star continues to rise.

And more: " The first season of ABT under the direction of Baryshnikov ended at the Metropolitan Opera. Alexander Godunov had a special place in the troupe, which he took with his inherent greatness and good taste. I have seen all his performances, and they invariably met the strictest requirements and left no doubt that our country was not mistaken in accepting him and his art. He's finally really happy, and it's especially noticeable when he goes on stage with Cynthia Gregory. They truly illuminate the stage in "Giselle" and "Swan Lake". His Othello in "Pavane of the Moor" (again with Gregory) is outstanding. In "La Bayadere", "Don Quixote" and "Raymond" his dance is simply magical".

It would be good to find this text in the original.

[Drew]

4 hours ago, Meliss said:

That is, do you think Baryshnikov behaved correctly and decently in this situation with Bujones? I do not think so. I don't think he behaved decently when he didn't renew his contract with Godunov. In both cases, he was obliged to explain his position, listen to the other side, and try to find a solution that would suit everyone. That would be human. He turned on the boss, kicked out the stellar quality dancers, and even babbled in the press about allegedly offering Godunov a vacation due to a lack of repertoire for him. If you justify him in everything, maybe he did the right thing when he called Gelsey "stupid" for coming on stage without waiting for Baryshnikov's applause to stop? I suppose he behaved differently with his "influential patrons".

As for Denby, I disagree with him. The country has nothing to do with it at all. Nureyev, Baryshnikov and Godunov were from the same country.

You mistake me. I am not trying to justify Baryshnikov —or vilify him for that matter. Other dancers of that era are more important to me, and I have probably written more about Baryshnikov the last three days on this board than in over twenty years of posting here! Anyway, he made decisions as director of ABT  that from outside are not always ones that I can explain or say I applaud.  Would I rather he had been able to work things out with Bujones and Godunov? Yes. That his involvement with Kirkland hadn’t been such a disaster for her? Double yes. But I am confident that these are complex stories pieces of which are not known to the public. I guess it could all boil down to “thatsonofabitchBaryshnikov” but that seems likely to be too simplistic. I CAN say with confidence that Bejart was not as respected on the New York dance scene as he was elsewhere— whether or not he should have been. 

I preceded the Denby quote by specifically saying that I myself find differences even within national traditions so countries are not necessarily the issue. To me, there is still value in the quote as it points to a larger issue that is applicable to companies, choreographers etc. Perhaps I should have been more explicit that the spirit of the quote was what interests me. In different contexts different qualities are valued in classical ballet. Sometimes it’s regional sometimes it is not. In the time period we are discussing strong stylistic differences between St. Petersburg and Moscow were widely acknowledged. No-one expected Baryshnikov and Godunov to dance the same. Moreover, as is also Denby’s point, people tend to think their personal taste —or, in some cases, the tradition they grew up with — is the “best.”  Back in the 20th century, I knew of at least one American Bolshoi lover who always found the Kirov a bit of an overly academic bore and I knew Kirov lovers who found the Bolshoi sloppy and a bit vulgar. Of course many of us appreciated and still appreciate the greatness of both companies even if we had a favorite. (For me, the Kirov and now Mariinsky was/is my favorite of the Russian companies I have seen, but I loved many of the Bolshoi performances that I got to see when the company toured. I hope to see both companies again one day.)  @Fraildove already has mentioned that the differences between the two companies have lessened in recent years and what may have been lost due to that change —

 

Edited July 9 by Drew

[Helene]

The only time an Artistic Director is obliged to explain anything to an employee is during a performance review, which is usually a yearly meeting.  That doesn't mean that the way Artistic Directors treat people don't have consequences, but they live with the results, unless they, too are removed or leave.

Treating influential patrons badly never stopped Nureyev from doing it, nor from them to continue to support them, so, without being in the room, it's hard to say whether Baryshnikov treated patrons differently.  (The only people that Nureyev didn't seem to be able to steamroll over were the artistic bureaucrats at the Paris Opera.) In fact, in the article linked in the Baryshnikkov defection thread,

Quote

"[Critic John Fraser] arrived as the party was in full swing and noticed that Baryshnikov appeared “tired, bored, and frustrated,” though Fraser came to learn this was not an unusual expression for the dancer when he was stuck at such events."

A lot, but not all, of patron relationships goes on at parties and galas.  In the US, it's not just about the BIG money: it's also about the Big money at galas, as well as lots of little people giving little money.  Also, directing a company isn't simply hiring and managing dancers, signing up choreographers, and working in the studio: in the US it's fundraising, fundraising, meetings, fundraising, meetings, rinse and repeat.  For most, it's having hard conversations or running from hard conversations.  It's having people who used to like and admire you think you're a jerk.  It's thinking about money and how you can't afford to do what you want, having many people who've been in the company a long time hating change and putting up passive-aggressive obstacles in your way and using stall tactics to kill momentum and your projects.  (In other words, it's a work place.)

Most people are horrible at managing small groups, let alone organizations, and being a Principal Dancer or star -- almost always men at that time; women had to found their own companies in order to lead -- is not, by definition, the ability, training, and emotional intelligence to lead an organization.

I think the press release and communications from Dillingham and Baryshnikov were stupid and gratuitous from a business standpoint and appalling from a personal standpoint. But that's simply my opinion.

Also, some people's "tired, bored, and frustrated" is another person's "brooding Russian artiste."  There is no doubt in my mind that Godunov would be a lot more fun to be with if he was somewhat sober and much more interesting to talk to: it was his dancing that didn't excite me.  I once met an opera singer whose voice I couldn't stand in the supermarket close to McCaw Hall.  We chatted for a while, and he was a lovely, charming man.  It didn't make me like his singing.

4 hours ago, Meliss said:

I wonder when he became a "fish out of water" stylistically? In 1980, 81 and 82 - his contracts were concluded without problems. With a "fish"?)) Some kind of murky story with this unfounded criticism. And most importantly, you can't watch it, there are no videos left from that period. 

A fish out of water is a metaphor for someone who is right at home in their own environment -- in his case the Bolshoi -- but not in another one -- in this case ABT.  For some people, that was point: they preferred his style to the rest of what they were seeing, and they were happy he was hired, especially after men like Bruhn and Nagy left ABT. (Nagy was my favorite among the men at ABT.)

Of course nearly everyone wanted to see Godunov: when he first joined: he was the new guy, whom people knew from previous tours and his defection story.  The question is whether they kept coming back for more.   I never cared whether I was in the majority or the minority when I came, I saw, and I did not return for more. When Baryshnikov moved to NYCB, plenty of people went to see him there.  Plenty of people had their look, felt he was nothing special in the Balanchine rep -- they agreed with what Gelsey Kirkland wrote in her book -- and stopped seeking out his performances.

Baryshnikov might have been the only male from the Kirov, but Makarova had paved the way for the Kirov style.  He was paired with Makarova for his Giselle debut; the NYT review (Kisselgoff) of the performance wrote "It is also to the credit of Miss Makarova, who was making. her first appearance as Giselle this season, that she modified her own interpretation sufficiently to give this new partnership the essential unity."  His subsequent partnership with Kirkland was viewed as East-West alchemy, with great chemistry and excitement onstage.

He also stretched himself quite far over time, and he was a hot ticket at ABT for many years.  He had that amazing technique, but he was also a dramatic and character dancer who seemed happy when he could drop the Prince character and do the kind of work he wanted.  It's really not surprising he wanted to work for Balanchine, because both of them were "Now is what matters" kind of people.

4 hours ago, Meliss said:

Chicago

I have no doubt that he received ovations in Chicago, on tour, but that's not NYC and not day in and day out with a home company at home.  I don't know what the Russian equivalent is of Chicago, one of the biggest and most important cities in the country, but not one with a dance tradition on par with the top US companies, or if there is such a city.  The opera, symphony, and museums have been on par with NYC, but not dance. Nor are all critics created equal.  For better or worse, with a few notable exceptions, critics outside NYC are considered homers who love everything and are dazzled by what is really ho-hum. 

The Dance Magazine article might be completely accurate, but Dance Magazine feature articles were generally uniformly positive, no matter what the subject: it promotes the industry and isn't limited to ballet.   I don't know how far their online archives go, because a search for "Alexander Godunov" on their website brings back two articles, the earliest from 2015.  My county library only has online issues going back as far as 1994, and my city library's online catalog is down for computer systems reasons.  I'd be interested in knowing who wrote the article.

[Meliss]

9 hours ago, Drew said:

Вы меня неправильно поняли. Я не пытаюсь оправдать Барышникова — или очернить его, если уж на то пошло. Другие танцоры той эпохи для меня важнее, и я, вероятно, написал о Барышникове больше за последние три дня на этой доске, чем за более чем двадцать лет постинга здесь! В любом случае, как директор ABT, он принимал решения, которые извне я не всегда могу объяснить или сказать, что аплодирую. Предпочел бы я, чтобы он смог уладить все с Бужонесом и Годуновым? ДА. Его связь с Киркландом не была для нее такой катастрофой? Вдвойне да. Но я уверен, что это сложные истории, фрагменты которых неизвестны широкой публике. Думаю, все могло бы свестись к “Этому сукину сыну Барышникову”, но это, вероятно, будет слишком упрощенно. Я МОГУ с уверенностью сказать, что Бежар не пользовался таким уважением на танцевальной сцене Нью-Йорка, как в других местах, независимо от того, должен ли он был им быть.

Я предваряю цитату Денби, специально отметив, что я сам нахожу различия даже в национальных традициях, поэтому страны не обязательно являются проблемой. Для меня цитата по-прежнему ценна, поскольку она указывает на более масштабную проблему, которая применима к труппам, хореографам и т.д. Возможно, мне следовало более четко сказать, что меня интересует дух цитаты. В разных контекстах в классическом балете ценятся разные качества. Иногда это региональный танец, иногда нет. В тот период времени, который мы обсуждаем, широко признавались сильные стилистические различия между Санкт-Петербургом и Москвой. Никто не ожидал, что Барышников и Годунов будут танцевать одинаково. Более того, как отмечает Денби, люди склонны думать, что их личный вкус — или, в некоторых случаях, традиция, с которой они выросли, — является “лучшим”. Еще в 20 веке я знал по крайней мере одного американского любителя Большого театра, который всегда считал театр Кирова чересчур академичным спектаклем, и я знал любителей Кирова, которые находили Большой театр неряшливым и немного вульгарным. Конечно, многие из нас ценили и до сих пор ценят величие обеих трупп, даже если у нас была любимая. (Для меня Кировский, а теперь и Мариинский были / остаются моими любимыми из российских трупп, которые я видел, но мне понравились многие спектакли Большого театра, которые я видел во время гастролей труппы. Я надеюсь однажды снова увидеть обе труппы.) @Fraildove уже упоминал, что различия между двумя труппами уменьшились в последние годы и что могло быть потеряно из-за этих изменений. —

 

Thanks for the clarification. Russian critics also noticed differences in the styles of these two theaters, while they wrote about Godunov as follows: 

"The concept of two schools -Leningrad and Moscow - is now retrospective. Nevertheless, Moscow expression and catchy effects prevail in male modern dance. The art of A. Godunov is determined by the laws of Harmony. Energy is ennobled by purity of form, but grace is devoid of willlessness... Motorism, accentuation has been defeated by dancing, the most important property, but it is not so common now in ballet, especially in men's dance. Godunov's expressive impulse and the sophistication of the academic canon live in harmony. The beauty of the lines, the completeness of the form with the most virtuosic technique in all the "registers" - this is his dance, which reveals the synthesis of two historical ballet styles..." Sania Davlekamova, ballet critic, 1979.

[Meliss]

5 hours ago, Helene said:

I think the press release and communications from Dillingham and Baryshnikov were stupid and gratuitous from a business standpoint and appalling from a personal standpoint. But that's simply my opinion.

Thank you very much for the detailed answer. Our opinions are absolutely the same here.

5 hours ago, Helene said:

he was a hot ticket at ABT for many years. 

And how was it possible to find out? Firstly, he did not dance alone in the performances. Maybe someone didn't "go to him", but to his partners. Or they just wanted to watch specific performances, regardless of who is dancing in them.

 

5 hours ago, Helene said:

a search for "Alexander Godunov" on their website brings back two articles, the earliest from 2015.  My county library only has online issues going back as far as 1994, and my city library's online catalog is down for computer systems reasons. 

Thank you very much for the search, I also found only the latest articles, unfortunately.

5 hours ago, Helene said:

I'd be interested in knowing who wrote the article.

William Como.

[Mashinka]

Dance Magazine November 1979 has an interview with Godunov shortly after his defection, he speaks very affectionately about Baryshnikov, reminiscing about the years they spent together at school in Riga.  he also states that in his opinion it is Nureyev who is the greatest male dancer.  Of course all this is of no real relevance to this thread, but I had no idea they were childhood friends.  Perhaps in light of what is posted above that friendship never survived into adulthood.

[Meliss]

3 hours ago, Mashinka said:

Dance Magazine November 1979 has an interview with Godunov shortly after his defection, he speaks very affectionately about Baryshnikov, reminiscing about the years they spent together at school in Riga.  he also states that in his opinion it is Nureyev who is the greatest male dancer.  Of course all this is of no real relevance to this thread, but I had no idea they were childhood friends.  Perhaps in light of what is posted above that friendship never survived into adulthood.

Thank you very much. Can уou post a link to this article here? As for Baryshnikov, it cannot be said that they were friends. More like buddies. Nevertheless, Alexander certainly did not expect such a stab in the back as dismissal from the theater from a former classmate. I don't know if this is true or not, but someone wrote that after that at one of the parties Baryshnikov approached him with a smile and held out his hand, but Godunov silently turned away.

Edited July 9 by Meliss

[Helene]

18 hours ago, Meliss said:

And how was it possible to find out? Firstly, he did not dance alone in the performances. Maybe someone didn't "go to him", but to his partners. Or they just wanted to watch specific performances, regardless of who is dancing in them.

I obviously don't have access to ABT ticketing data from the '70's and '80's, and I'm not even sure they do, but I do have anecdotal behavior that I experienced multiple times.

ABT casting would be published: I would see it in the New York Times.  There would be a ticket on-sale date and time.  At that time, there were two options:  try to get through to the Box Office by phone, or stand on a ticket buyer line.  A very, very long line, with your wish list of performances getting more and more crumpled as you waited anxiously.

There were several main scenarios::

1. As you were waiting, if you were on the line, someone who was finished and on their way out would tell people that the Date X performance with Baryshnikov or all of the Baryshnikov Giselles/Push Comes to Shoves were  sold out or that there were only (top priced) or partial view tickets left.

You'd see people leave the line at the news.

2. You'd get to the head of the line or get out of the phone queue or past a busy signal to reach a live operator, only to find out the same.  If on the physical line, if  you didn't buy anything and went away looking forlorn, everyone knew you couldn't get what you wanted.  You might announce to the line what was sold out. 

Sometimes people would leave the line without even asking for details: they'd just assume the worst.

3.  You'd either get a ticket, or two singles and be willing to sit apart from your spouse or friend, or you'd use your whole budget to get one First Tier ticket, or you'd get a single and tell your friend or spouse that they were out of luck, and pretend to be nonchalant as you walked away.  You may have told people on line that there were only singles or really expensive tickets left.   They would grasp their ticket list harder.  You kept your happy dance for the Plaza, when you were out of sight. 

What wouldn't sell as well, at least at the beginning of the sale period  were the same ballets with other casts, Baryshnikov's partner with a different partner on another night,  or the same dancers in the rest of the program except for Baryshnikov. I don't know how they sold over time, because I tried to get most of my tickets up front, and there were no seating charts on the internet that show sold vs. empty seats.

For people who didn't care about seeing him and who could go on other dates, this was all a good thing, because they'd get to the line faster with people leaving the line and having fewer options, and they'd get the tickets they wanted for the dancers they liked.   When there was a new dancer that everyone wanted to see, those tickets would sell fast, but they didn't often have the staying power after a view or two.

When Nureyev and Fonteyn were in town with the Royal Ballet, they sold tickets without announcing casting, but it was a game to guess which performances apart from opening night -- a guaranteed sell-out as if they were Taylor Swift and Bruce Springsteen -- in which they would perform.   People camped out on the sidewalk overnight in the cold and snow and rain to get Horowitz tickets.  Baryshnikov was among these rock star performers. Baryshmikov was hardly the only one like this in history, but he was among the rock stars of the performing arts.

The only way to find a link to a 1979 article is if a library system has made it available online. 

[Marta]

Helene said:  The only way to find a link to a 1979 article is if a library system has made it available online. 

I've seen old issues of Dance  for sale on ebay.com, including the 1981 issue with Godunov on the cover.