The 50th anniversary of Baryshnikov's defection

[Mashinka]

According to Ovid, he was a very lively chap, particularly with the ladies.

[volcanohunter]

Gosh, I wouldn't wish that many duets on any male dancer's back. 

[Meliss]

15 hours ago, Helene said:

I’m not sure what this means.  If it’s applying the physical standards of a statue that neither moves nor furthers a story and that is from another era to Balanchine’s ballet, Balanchine wasn’t applying that aesthetic to his ballet.

Martins only came to his attention as a last-minute replacement on tour when d’Amboise was injured, and his usefulness as Farrell’s partner was foremost on his mind.  Balanchine hardly envisioned Martins/a Martins type as an ideal when he choreographed the work.
 

In ancient Greek and Roman mythology, Apollo is the god of light, patron of the arts, leader and patron of the muses, predictor of the future, god-healer, patron of immigrants, the personification of male beauty. Balanchine was staging his ballet about this character, so shouldn't he have taken into account the main characteristics of Apollo, including appearance?

[Meliss]

13 hours ago, FPF said:

"But Apollon Musagete is not Apollo Belvedere; he is the wild, half-human youth who acquires nobility through art." 

These two Apollons are the same god of light from Greek mythology. Yes, in Balanchine's ballet he is young and inexperienced, but he must be handsome and his legs must be long. 

[Helene]

Obviously, Balanchine disagreed, and it was his ballet, which he cast at will for half a century, from the ‘30’s until he was hospitalized in 1982.

[lmspear]

4 hours ago, Meliss said:

In ancient Greek and Roman mythology, Apollo is the god of light, patron of the arts, leader and patron of the muses, predictor of the future, god-healer, patron of immigrants, the personification of male beauty. Balanchine was staging his ballet about this character, so shouldn't he have taken into account the main characteristics of Apollo, including appearance?

In ancient Greek and Roman mythology, Apollo had a twin sister, Artemis in the Greek and Diana in the Roman. In one version of the myth Artemis was born first and helped deliver Apollo.  I don't remember who as responsible for the libretto of Balanchine's ballet. The ballet was never a faithful retelling of the original, but a reimagining that works on its own terms.

[Quiggin]

2 hours ago, lmspear said:

The ballet was never a faithful retelling of the original, but a reimagining that works on its own terms.

Very much so. It was devised by Boris Kochno, who also wrote the libretto for the delightful The Gods Go a-Begging, which was also done the same year as Apollo (1928) and even more successful than Apollo in London where it had been quickly assembled on a whim of Diaghilev's. Balanchine did the choreography for both.

The first Apollo, "the most Greek of the Greek gods," has many functions (purification, prophecy, care for young citizens, for poetry and music) and is "always young, beardless, and of harmonious beauty" (Oxford Classical Dictionary 1996). His body type seems to vary according to the era in which it is depicted. Michelangelo, for instance:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_(Michelangelo)#/media/File:Michelangelo,_apollino_01.jpg

&

https://explore.chicagocollections.org/image/uic/67/nk36z7g/

https://www.meisterdrucke.ie/fine-art-prints/Unbekannt/1207587/Archaic-Roman-relief-of-Apollo.html

Wonderful clip of Gods reconstructed at Jacobs Pillow:

Gods Go a-Begging

[Meliss]

17 hours ago, lmspear said:

In ancient Greek and Roman mythology, Apollo had a twin sister, Artemis in the Greek and Diana in the Roman. In one version of the myth Artemis was born first and helped deliver Apollo.  I don't remember who as responsible for the libretto of Balanchine's ballet. The ballet was never a faithful retelling of the original, but a reimagining that works on its own terms.

And what does the presence of a twin sister have to do with the fact that Apollo is the personification of male beauty? It's okay to rethink the Greek myth in your own way, but not to the same extent that you can make something strange out of the personification of male beauty.

15 hours ago, Quiggin said:

and of harmonious beauty" (Oxford Classical Dictionary 1996).

!!!

[volcanohunter]

Well, if Balanchine's concept is so awful, every male dancer who was spared having to dance his Apollo can consider himself fortunate.

[Drew]

2 hours ago, Meliss said:

And what does the presence of a twin sister have to do with the fact that Apollo is the personification of male beauty? It's okay to rethink the Greek myth in your own way, but not to the same extent that you can make something strange out of the personification of male beauty.

!!!

Diaghilev’s company was an experimental one.

What was historically important about Balanchine’s ballet was its renewal of ballet classicism in the context of that experimentation. That is what Apollo and the muses allegorize in that ballet. And it is what Balanchine’s choreography moves toward—that is, he shows you a vision of the arts coming together in and as classical ballet through the form of the ballet not just its story. Arguably many of the works Diaghilev produced in the 20’s had gotten away from that …

The critic André Levinson wrote about Balanchine’s renewal of classicism at the time of the ballet’s premier—this is not an eccentric idea, but a rather conventional one. That classical ideal is what the reference to Apollo brings, but it shows classicism as something that has to be developed or earned (he is the god being born and growing into his role; the muses show different aspects of art that meet up in classical ballet). And it is an energetic and inventive classicism, not a stuffy or pious one— in that sense still experimental even if classical. Neo-classical. To take one example, the pointed ballet foot is played off against flexed feet. The port de bras doesn’t restrict itself to the traditional positions etc.

Of course, Balanchine’s works were not seen in the Soviet Union once he departed (and his earliest Soviet work predates what seems to have been a breakthrough with Apollo anyway). Classical ballet there developed along different lines. One result of that divergence even today, so many years later, can be a strong difference of opinion about what makes for great choreography —as is on display in this discussion. 

For me Apollo, despite its historical importance and its beauties, is maybe not one of Balanchine’s greatest works—I think he did more remarkable work later. And his various cuts in the ballet over the years made it more abstract. But it can cast a spell and also offers a meaty role for a male dancer and one that works with different dancers.

I want to say also that whatever one thinks of Apollo, Balanchine is not the first or the last choreographer—or artist of any kind—to build his own inventions on material from classical antiquity. Think of all the different film and literary and ballet versions of Orpheus or Antigone—

Edited August 24 by Drew

[Meliss]

1 hour ago, volcanohunter said:

Well, if Balanchine's concept is so awful, every male dancer who was spared having to dance his Apollo can consider himself fortunate.

His concept is all right. But by choosing dancers with an unsuitable appearance for the role, the director puts them in an awkward position.

[Meliss]

1 hour ago, Drew said:

I want to say also that whatever one thinks of Apollo, Balanchine is not the first or the last choreographer—or artist of any kind—to build his own inventions on material from classical antiquity. Think of all the different film and literary and ballet versions of Orpheus or Antigone

Do you think that Balanchine's invention in this ballet is the creation of a new (experimental) ideal of male beauty?

Edited August 24 by Meliss

[Mashinka]

1 hour ago, Drew said:

For me Apollo, despite its historical importance and its beauties, is maybe not one of Balanchine’s greatest works—I think he did more remarkable work later.

Along with Prodigal Son I find it wholly atypical, I've always assumed Diaghilev asked him to create a work to show off his favourite.

[Mashinka]

1 hour ago, Meliss said:

by choosing dancers with an unsuitable appearance for the role, the director puts them in an awkward position.

Male dancers are usually pretty good physically and unsuitable physiques are usually weeded out during training.  The Balanchine Trust can and has vetoed certain dancers in the role but the ballet is popular with audiences, not least because of Stravinsky's wonderful score.

I would suggest male beauty is highly subjective, the casting of ballets should never turn into beauty contests.

[Meliss]

3 hours ago, Mashinka said:

I would suggest male beauty is highly subjective

I prefer to end this discussion, simply because it is not tactful to analyze in detail the appearance and especially the shortcomings of real people. But I remain of my opinion that the roles of Apollo or Narcissus, and even princes, should be performed only by very beautiful dancers.

Edited August 24 by Meliss

[Mashinka]

Well that eliminates just about everyone.

[Helene]

It is also not the site policy.  People are willing to participate, not participate at all, or stop participating in the discussion for whatever reason, including having said all they have to say, just like in any thread.

[Meliss]

13 hours ago, Mashinka said:

Well that eliminates just about everyone.

Have you never seen beautiful dancers? It can't be!

[Helene]

All of us have seen dancers we consider beautiful.  We don’t always agree with what other people consider beautiful.  

[volcanohunter]

I use the expression beautiful dancer, but I use it to refer to people who dance beautifully. Earlier in this discussion I applied it to Patrick Harding-Irmer.

I never use it to describe a dancer's appearance.

[Drew]

On 8/24/2024 at 7:42 AM, Meliss said:

Do you think that Balanchine's invention in this ballet is the creation of a new (experimental) ideal of male beauty?

My computer was unable to process the picture you posted which means I can't evaluate the tone of your question--perhaps it would show that you were being satirical and that I shouldn't try to answer...But if I take the question seriously anyway then it's actually somewhat interesting 🤔.  I think I would say more, as I did above,  that the ballet Apollo takes a fresh look at male classical ballet dancing...just as the ballet takes an imaginative look at the story of Apollo as a newly born god. 

Though Balanchine is more associated with his creations for ballerinas than for male dancers, later in his career he did create a number of interesting neo-classical roles for male dancers--like Sanguinic and Melancholic in the Four Temperaments--roles that challenge male dancers in ways very different from traditional virtuoso male roles. If you ask for particulars, then I have to admit it's not easy for me to describe--a professional dancer or critic might do better--but let's say: Flexibility, musicality, ability to vary tempos/rhythms within a short unit of dancing (and without elaborate "set up" or transition movements), isolation of particular joints and limbs, ability to move off center and return to it quickly--and to relate the classical movement to gravity rather than simply trying to defy gravity. And, at times, to look awkward or fragmented and yet make that awkwardness part of a dance that is ultimately harmonious and emotionally resonant. Maybe parts of Apollo look forward to that. (One can read what Peter Martins says about first working with Balanchine during the Stravinsky Festival. )

To return to the subject of this thread: what made Baryshnikov's dancing beautiful to many of the people who found it beautiful was his classical ballet form:  this is after all someone who trained at the Vaganova academy and danced at the Mariinsky as a principal. People saw beauty in the purity and clarity of his lines/positions and the fluidity and ease of his movement as well as its shapes and including when he was dancing very fast. Some male dancers (mostly Soviet in my experience) like to show how hard the virtuoso steps are--Baryshnikov made it look easy and that ease had a beauty especially appropriate to much classical and neo-classical dancing.

In some roles, I tend to enjoy longer-limbed dancers especially if they have very pure classical form (Bruhn, Dowell...more recently Hallberg), so I partly understand what you described above as your "perplexity" about Baryshnikov--but only partly, because I found him a remarkable classical dancer whose qualities as a dancer and personal charisma raised him well beyond any supposed limitations of his physical type. (In this century, Herman Cornejo is a short dancer who has defied stereotypes. And he is superb! Far more princely than many taller dancers. One of the greatest I have seen.)

On facial features, I will also stay away from the subject of "beauty" -- I plead guilty to having mentioned Nagy's in a post above--but I do  think it important that a dancer's facial features read across the footlights and that their eyes communicate. Baryshnikov's did so. When he danced his version of the Nutcracker, an entire audience sighed audibly night after night at the moment the Nutcracker transforms into the prince (I was there) --essentially the Nutcracker Mask and part of the costume was removed and one saw the Prince instead of just the Nutcracker, as he turns and looks at Clara who has saved him from the Rat King.  The grateful and admiring look in his eyes and the sweetness of his expression read across the footlights. That does matter. (I haven't looked at the video in years--I don't know what comes across and what doesn't on video. What happens in the theater is always somewhat different.)

[volcanohunter]

2 hours ago, Drew said:

and without elaborate "set up" or transition movements

Yes, very quick, almost imperceptible preparations are characteristic of Balanchine, totally opposite of preparations by many Soviet and post-Soviet male dancers, who often seem to stand in an à la seconde position for an eternity before performing a pirouette.

[Meliss]

16 hours ago, Drew said:

My computer was unable to process the picture you posted

Here, I made it smaller. Maybe it's better this way?

16 hours ago, Drew said:

and one saw the Prince instead of just the Nutcracker, as he turns and looks at Clara who has saved him from the Rat King.  The grateful and admiring look in his eyes and the sweetness of his expression read across the footlights. That does matter.

I liked the Mouse King much better. 

And the prince should be at least like that:

[volcanohunter]

I once watched video of a question-and-answer session with a Bolshoi principal who described asking the company's artistic director whether he might be cast as Grigorovich's Nutcracker Prince. The director replied that the dancer was a bit too tall. The choreography wasn't considered suitable for a tall dancer. With time this changed, as tall dancers proved capable of performing the Prince's fouettés, and eventually this principal danced it as well. But for much of the 20th century it was not performed by tall dancers, and even now the company has some short interpreters of the role, including some who might be considered to have an un-fairy-tale appearance. They are cast because they can execute the choreography. 

In the original Nutcracker, as is still the case in many productions, including Balanchine's, the part was performed by a boy. A character who was previously trapped in the form of a nutcracker and led toy soldiers into battle against mice doesn't have to be tall. The pas de deux was danced by a partner to the Sugar Plum Fairy, who is precisely that: a fairy. Personally, I think the angles of Ivanov's original choreography for her, which consists primarily of ankle-high footwork, look better on small ballerinas, who don't need tall partners.

In fact, when a small ballerina dances the part with a very tall partner, their partnership can look unharmonious and peculiar. In 2000 there was a telecast of the Royal Ballet's Nutrcracker, which, I believe, was supposed to feature tall Darcey Bussell as the Sugar Plum Fairy, but she was unable to perform and was replaced by tiny Miyako Yoshida, who looked extremely mismatched with Bussell's intended partner, the tall Jonathan Cope. Many years later there was another broadcast of The Nutcracker in which Yoshida was paired with the more compatible Steven McRae. There was also a video from the Birmingham Royal Ballet with Yoshida dancing opposite the not tall Irek Mukhamedov.

Ideally I would post a video of the superlative and tiny Lesley Collier dancing opposite the superlative and not tall Anthony Dowell, but the distributor is meticulous and ruthless about keeping that performance off YouTube.

Edited August 27 by volcanohunter
video

[Meliss]

14 hours ago, volcanohunter said:

In fact, when a small ballerina dances the part with a very tall partner, their partnership can look unharmonious and peculiar.

But it's even worse when a short dancer performs with a ballerina taller than him.