The 50th anniversary of Baryshnikov's defection

[Meliss]

5 hours ago, Drew said:

when Baryshnikov danced Albrecht many people experienced his very youthful and more sweet approach as something fresh.

I don't think it mattered to the world ballet.

5 hours ago, Drew said:

Do they put their stamp on a role--that's the question. For me, Baryshnikov's Albrecht--yes! I have never seen anyone invest the brisés in particular with his level of emotion -- and he did so while performing them with extraordinary speed and brilliance. (The effect I think came from his upper body.)

Well, that's something concrete, thank you. I will try to find and watch it.

5 hours ago, Drew said:

He was pretty "on" both times I saw his Albrecht but one performance was very good and the other was sublime--one of the greatest performances I have ever seen.

A wonderful experience! It's hard to describe, but it's still cool. The same dancer, the same performance - and different impressions. You should write a book about ballet, it will obviously be interesting.

[Drew]

1 minute ago, Meliss said:

I don't think it mattered to the world ballet.

Well, that's something concrete, thank you. I will try to find and watch it.

A wonderful experience! It's hard to describe, but it's still cool. The same dancer, the same performance - and different impressions. You should write a book about ballet, it will obviously be interesting.

That’s kind of you to say. One of the things I am always learning on this site is how many different perspectives there are on dancers and choreography. 

[Meliss]

3 hours ago, volcanohunter said:

This is a little clip about Baryshnikov from Darcey's Ballet Heroes, with comments from critic Clement Crisp, Nureyev biographer Julie Kavanagh and dancer Irek Mukhamedov. Unfortunately, the images and sound aren't synchronized. Mukhamedov's comments about Baryshnikov in slow motion are interesting, because videos of Baryshnikov in slow motion are almost a sub-genre on YouTube.

Interesting also is the little segment on Mukhamedov, because initially he made his reputation dancing Grigorovich, but he describes Kenneth MacMillan as "his" choreographer. (The subtitles leave a lot to be desired. )

I also still have the program from the Bolshoi’s 1990 U.S. tour, and pictures of Mukhamedov are all over it. But he defected before the tour began.

Thank you. I would like to see it, but I have this channel blocked.

[volcanohunter]

57 minutes ago, Meliss said:

Well, it's really funny - Apollo is 5 feet 6 inches tall.

To paraphrase George Balanchine's response to a Russian critic who didn't like his characterization of Apollo: Oh, I'm sorry. I was not aware that you had seen Apollo.

[Mashinka]

Grigorovich's ballets are totally dependent on the interpreters, but the American view doesn't altogether prevail in Europe where POB dances one of his ballets.  For me I judge how successful a ballet is by audience reaction rather than the opinions of critics, and hand on heart I've witnessed some of the most prolonged ecstatic applause for his ballets in London, Paris and Moscow.  Only Fonteyn and Nureyev could surpass that.  Bejart could elicit an audience storm of applause too.

[volcanohunter]

The Paris Opera Ballet premiered Grigorovich's Romeo and Juliet in 1978, but never performed it after 1978.

It had acquired Ivan the Terrible in 1976, but the next and last revival took place around the turn of 2003/04 and has not been performed there for more than 20 years. That revival was filmed for television, but even though I regarded Nicolas Le Riche as the greatest dancer of his time, I turned the video off after about 10 minutes because I found it unbearable to watch. 

All other performances of Grigorovich at the Paris Opera have been guest appearances by the Bolshoi.

https://www.memopera.fr/personnalite.php?numint=57 

Spartacus was in the repertoire of the Bavarian State Ballet while Igor Zelensky was director.

In 2017 Ballet Flanders presented a single run of Spartacus, although this required bolstering its corps de ballet with dancers from the Armenian National Ballet and inviting a lot of guest dancers to perform the leads, including every Spartacus, Crassus and Phrygia.

https://www.operaballet.be/en/programme/season-2016-2017/spartacus 

Edited August 22 by volcanohunter
link

[Meliss]

1 hour ago, volcanohunter said:

To paraphrase George Balanchine's response to a Russian critic who didn't like his characterization of Apollo: Oh, I'm sorry. I was not aware that you had seen Apollo.

The answer is witty, but we actually saw Apollo). 

And then suddenly - such a strange Apollo...  with a big head and short legs...

 

 

[Meliss]

1 hour ago, Mashinka said:

the American view doesn't altogether prevail in Europe

It would be interesting if someone undertook to study in detail the different perceptions of ballet in different countries.

[volcanohunter]

34 minutes ago, Meliss said:

The answer is witty, but we actually saw Apollo). 

That statue doesn't look like a six-footer to me.

Have you seen Balanchine's Apollo?

[Meliss]

45 minutes ago, volcanohunter said:

That statue doesn't look like a six-footer to me.

The Apollo Belvedere. circa 330-320 BC English Apollo Belvedere (Apollo of the Belvedere; Pythian Apollo). Marble. The height is 2.24 m. Pius Clement Museum, Vatican City. (inv. 1015).

45 minutes ago, volcanohunter said:

Have you seen Balanchine's Apollo?

Yes, on video. And with Baryshnikov too - I was not impressed.  And I can add that Narcissus performed by Vasiliev and Tsiskarizde did not make an impression either.

Well, that would be a perfect Apollo. But who would have allowed it).

Edited August 22 by Meliss

[Drew]

Balanchine’s Apollo is the young god still learning about his powers—not yet knowing who or what he can be. That is clearer in the original version where one sees the god being born, a section of the ballet that was later cut. (You might know Keats’ poem Hyperion in translation —the god Apollo there is also learning his role. I doubt Balanchine knew the poem but it offers a kind of analogy.)

The founder of this website, Alexandra Tomalonis, who passed away recently, was very interested in the history of the idea and application of “emploi” (a French term) in the ballet world—she knew a lot more about it than I, but it is more or less the idea that certain body types and temperaments are appropriate for certain roles and that ‘emploi’ , understood according to fairly strict criteria should dictate how a particular dancer should and will be cast.

These ideas were especially important before the twentieth century, and probably remained important in some companies or some regions of the world and—Alexandra’s point—still influence choreographers and stagers in some way even when their influence is somewhat weak or unself aware. A short exciting virtuoso like Baryshnikov might, from that point of view be thought of as wrong for Siegfried. He seems indeed to have felt that in Russia his body type might limit him and in early interviews he gave that as a reason for his defection

A more recent example: for years, the Mariinsky didn’t let Obratszova dance Odette —I don’t think the Bolshoi has either, but am not sure. I assume also because she is viewed as not having the right ‘emploi’ for the role. And as being more a Juliet or a Giselle than a Swan Queen. But she did get a chance to dance the role at the Stanislavsky around 2011. That company was more willing to cast against type and give her a chance.

I think it is fair to say that ideas about casting in the United States have always been less bound to emploi in part because companies needed to make use of all their dancers but also because of more flexible cultural contexts and expectations —but some ideas of emploi still persist as showed in a discussion we had about Prodigal Son being usually given to shorter dancer as otherwise the pas de deux with the Siren will look wrong. She has to dominate physically and swallow him up.

Anyway, dancing at ABT, NYCB, and the Royal Baryshnikov got opportunities to show what he could do in all kinds of roles. To someone used to stricter casting rules, some choices might seem odd. Most people who saw him felt lucky to see a dancer of his range and interests.

But Balanchine’s Apollo as a young god still finding his way was easily in his range. 

 

Edited August 23 by Drew
Typos

[Meliss]

5 minutes ago, Drew said:

Balanchine’s Apollo is the young god

Well, he wasn't 10 years old to have such proportions as Baryshnikov's!

[Mashinka]

2 hours ago, volcanohunter said:

That revival was filmed for television, but even though I regarded Nicolas Le Riche as the greatest dancer of his time, I turned the video off after about 10 minutes because I found it unbearable to watch. 

It suited Jose Martinez far better.  Pity he never made the video.

 

47 minutes ago, Meliss said:

And I can add that Narcissus performed by Vasiliev and Tsiskarizde did not make an impression either.

I can add Yanin's name to those I've seen as Narcissus, I loved all three.

 

25 minutes ago, Drew said:

the Mariinsky didn’t let Obratszova dance Odette —I don’t think the Bolshoi has either, but am not sure. I assume also because she is viewed as not having the right ‘emploi’ for the role. And as being more a Juliet or a Giselle than a Swan Queen. But she did get a chance to dance the role at the Stanislavsky around 2011. That company was more willing to cast against type and give her a chance.

She got a chance to dance it in London as well. lets just say she didn't cover herself in glory.

[volcanohunter]

The only thing that really matters is that Balanchine thought Baryshnikov was suitable for the part and cast him in the ballet. Perhaps it was Baryshnikov's forceful energy he thought would convey this god-in-training. Perhaps he thought Baryshnikov's pure and immaculate technique--"the perfect article" as Darcey Bussell put it--best conveyed something godlike. Perhaps it was because Balanchine recognized Baryshnikov's imagination and innate understanding of movement, which, I think, accounted for his ability to make just about any choreography look convincing on his body. (Most of the time, if not in Swan Lake.)

I would add that at the moment New York City Ballet has three Apollos of varying heights. (For a frame of reference, the women in the second photograph are the tallest. The Terpsichore on the lefthand side is the same in the first and third photograph.)

Edited August 22 by volcanohunter
clearer photo

[volcanohunter]

2 hours ago, Meliss said:

The Apollo Belvedere. circa 330-320 BC English Apollo Belvedere (Apollo of the Belvedere; Pythian Apollo). Marble. The height is 2.24 m. Pius Clement Museum, Vatican City. (inv. 1015).

I was referring to proportions, obviously. 

[Meliss]

2 hours ago, volcanohunter said:

The only thing that really matters is that Balanchine thought Baryshnikov was suitable for the part and cast him in the ballet.

It is not that simple). Balanchine cast not only him. There are a lot of great Apollos.

See the difference.

Edited August 22 by Meliss

[Meliss]

1 hour ago, volcanohunter said:

I was referring to proportions, obviously. 

And what's wrong with the proportions of the perfect Apollo statue?

[Helene]

I could imagine a Spartacus ballet where I cared about the fate of the characters and sympathize with them.  I could imagine a Spartacus ballet that didn't become tedious and repetitive after a short while.  Grigorovich's Spartacus is not that ballet for me.  I think about what it would be like if it had a good editing, and maybe became a one-act ballet, since I watch it selectively on DVD for the leads, but it's too much of the same two pitches for me.  I love the score the score, and Liepa was such a delicious bad guy in it. I'd rather see the leads dance in something else.

As almost every podcaster will say at one point or another, "It's not my jam," just as someone else's jam is that a dancer must look a certain way for them to accept the greatness of a performance.  I don't know if Serge Lifar, the dancer for whom Apollo and Prodigal Son were created, was a tall man -- in photos and given the choreography for Prodigal Son, I'd think not -- but Balanchine cast many dancers of Baryshnikov's height in the role before Baryshnikov, and he was satisfied.  Balanchine's Apollo is the story of the making of the god, and certainly not a depiction of the statue.  But no one has the obligation to like anything. 

[Meliss]

14 minutes ago, Helene said:

I don't know if Serge Lifar, the dancer for whom Apollo and Prodigal Son were created, was a tall man

Neither do I, but he looks perfect for this role, doesn't he?

[Helene]

He's not moving in the photograph, so I couldn't say whether or not he'd be perfect for the role. 

He wasn't Balanchine's choice, but the dancer he was given to work with for both Apollo and Prodigal Son, and he had his own not very high opinions on Lifar's dancing before Lifar undermined him at Paris Opera Ballet.

Baryshnikov, like scores before him and some after him, was one of Balanchine's choices, because Balanchine wanted to see him in the role.

[volcanohunter]

It was obviously Balanchine's opinion that the Apollos of Peter Martins and Mikhail Baryshnikov could coexist within his company. He had taller Muses to dance with one and smaller Muses to dance with the other. What anyone else thought about it was irrelevant, and every viewer was free not to attend the performance of one Apollo or the other.

[Meliss]

3 hours ago, volcanohunter said:

It was obviously Balanchine's opinion that the Apollos of Peter Martins and Mikhail Baryshnikov could coexist within his company. He had taller Muses to dance with one and smaller Muses to dance with the other. What anyone else thought about it was irrelevant, and every viewer was free not to attend the performance of one Apollo or the other.

And yet, no one has canceled the aesthetic component of the character in the ballet .

Edited August 22 by Meliss

[Helene]

20 minutes ago, Meliss said:

And yet, no one has canceled the aesthetic component of the character in the ballet .

I’m not sure what this means.  If it’s applying the physical standards of a statue that neither moves nor furthers a story and that is from another era to Balanchine’s ballet, Balanchine wasn’t applying that aesthetic to his ballet.

Martins only came to his attention as a last-minute replacement on tour when d’Amboise was injured, and his usefulness as Farrell’s partner was foremost on his mind.  Balanchine hardly envisioned Martins/a Martins type as an ideal when he choreographed the work.
 

[FPF]

As per the earlier comments of, I think, Helene, in Balanchine and Mason's Complete Stories of the Great Ballets, the entry for Apollo says, " Apollo is not the kind of ballet most people expect to see when they know its name. When the ballet was first performed, a French critic said that this was not Apollo at all, that the choreographer had cultivated the deliberately odd, that Apollo would never have done this, or this, or this, etc. When the critic was asked how he knew what Apollo would have done, he had no answer. He was thinking about some familiar statue of Apollo, the Apollo Belvedere, perhaps, and imagined that a ballet about the god would personify sculptural representations. But Apollon Musagete is not Apollo Belvedere; he is the wild, half-human youth who acquires nobility through art." 

Similarly, a 2019 NYT article by critic Alastair Macaulay says, "Most myths of Apollo show him as fully divine, the mature god of music and the arts. The composer Igor Stravinsky, however, had conceived the Apollo of this ballet as a raw youth, still finding his feet. This was the vision that Balanchine fulfilled."

[volcanohunter]

1 hour ago, FPF said:

He was thinking about some familiar statue of Apollo, the Apollo Belvedere, perhaps, and imagined that a ballet about the god would personify sculptural representations. But Apollon Musagete is not Apollo Belvedere; he is the wild, half-human youth who acquires nobility through art.

Exactly. Thank you for locating the quote!

My edition is George Balanchine and Francis Mason. Balanchine's Complete Stories of the Great Ballets. (Garden City, NY: Doubleday & Company, 1977), 26. 

Twenty-eight minutes+ of Apollo in his full godliness would likely become boring very quickly.