The 50th anniversary of Baryshnikov's defection

[Helene]

Ailey did not “send” anyone to clubs.  He invited Baryshnikov to come with him.

[Meliss]

3 hours ago, Helene said:

Ailey did not “send” anyone to clubs.  He invited Baryshnikov to come with him.

Oh, Baryshnikov was a risky fellow! However, this may be a good thing for advertising.

[Helene]

Nothing risky about it.

[volcanohunter]

55 minutes ago, Meliss said:

However, this may be a good thing for advertising.

Certainly not. Ailey's private life was just that: very private. He kept his HIV diagnosis and death from AIDS private also. He did, however, give Baryshnikov a window into his private life. I'm sure Ailey's dancers, including Baryshnikov, understood that Ailey was demonstrating great trust by inviting them into a part of his off-stage life.

[Fraildove]

I was going to surmise as much: Ailey inviting Baryshnikov must have a been a huge  sign of trust in their friendship. Especially during that era. Wow.

[Meliss]

12 hours ago, Helene said:

Nothing risky about it.

I don't think Baryshnikov wanted to show up in public with a gay man in a gay club. After all, the yellow press was not interested in the fact that he had only friendship with  Ailey).

Edited September 1 by Meliss

[Meliss]

11 hours ago, volcanohunter said:

Ailey's private life was just that: very private. He kept his HIV diagnosis and death from AIDS private also.

But Nureyev did not hide his personal life. He believed that scandals contribute to greater fame.

Edited September 1 by Meliss

[Helene]

Obviously, Baryshnikov didn’t care what anyone thought, or he wouldn’t have gone.  His career wasn’t dependent on what Ailey thought of him.

Different people are entitled to treat their personal life differently, which Ailey and Nureyev did.

[Meliss]

15 minutes ago, Helene said:

Obviously, Baryshnikov didn’t care what anyone thought, or he wouldn’t have gone.

Nevertheless, Baryshnikov in a gay club was a sensation for the press, wasn't it?

Edited September 1 by Meliss

[Helene]

Maybe someone here remembers if it did. If it did, it didn’t affect Baryshnikov’s career, not in ballet, not in TV, not in film.  Maybe they were all too busy making Nureyev famous.

[Meliss]

35 minutes ago, Helene said:

Maybe someone here remembers if it did. If it did, it didn’t affect Baryshnikov’s career, not in ballet, not in TV, not in film.  Maybe they were all too busy making Nureyev famous.

☺️   The press writes that he is not gay, but the word "predominantly" in the article is somewhat confusing).

"Throughout his life, Mikhail Baryshnikov has been involved in high-profile romantic relationships, predominantly with women".

https://www.icgi.org/learn/is-mikhail-baryshnikov-gay/

Edited September 1 by Meliss

[volcanohunter]

1 hour ago, Meliss said:

But Nureyev did not hide his personal life. He believed that scandals contribute to greater fame.

Alvin Ailey's decisions were motivated by concern for his mother. He was trying avoid all possible scandal for her sake.

"Indeed, when Ailey died from AIDS-related complications on December 1, 1989, he left a request that his doctor announce that terminal blood dyscrasia was the cause in order to spare his mother from the shame of being associated with AIDS."

https://www.pbs.org/wnet/americanmasters/loving-the-unknown-alvin-ailey/19793/ 

[volcanohunter]

49 minutes ago, Helene said:

Maybe someone here remembers if it did. If it did, it didn’t affect Baryshnikov’s career, not in ballet, not in TV, not in film.  Maybe they were all too busy making Nureyev famous.

I doubt that reporters were hanging around Ailey's studios to follow him, Jamison and Baryshnikov to bars after rehearsals.

[Meliss]

33 minutes ago, volcanohunter said:

I doubt that reporters were hanging around Ailey's studios to follow him, Jamison and Baryshnikov to bars after rehearsals.

Hmm... and Godunov and Bisset were constantly being watched by paparazzi.

[volcanohunter]

Paparazzi make money by selling photographs to media outlets. Movie stars have bigger audiences than ballet dancers and modern dance choreographers, and consequently photographs of movie actors fetch higher prices. I think they photographed Bisset regardless of who her companions were.

[Meliss]

22 minutes ago, volcanohunter said:

Paparazzi make money by selling photographs to media outlets. Movie stars have bigger audiences than ballet dancers and modern dance choreographers, and consequently photographs of movie actors fetch higher prices. I think they photographed Bisset regardless of who her companions were.

I do not think so. Even if they are more interested in movie stars than ballet stars, aren't the public interested in who movie stars communicate with?

[Mashinka]

I don't understand this criticism of going into gay clubs, personally I've accompanied gay friends to several, it really isn't a big deal.

[Helene]

3 hours ago, Meliss said:

I do not think so. Even if they are more interested in movie stars than ballet stars, aren't the public interested in who movie stars communicate with?

Yes, they are (in the US) out of curiosity, but the interest is in the movie star or popular singer, and they would have been following Bisset if Godunov had been a neurosurgeon or bank teller or real estate magnate, which they did for the last,  Victor Drai.  They always want to know “Who’s next?” and their interest in Godunov was as one of her serial relationships, not in Godunov specifically.

It’s a bonus when the partner is a star in their own field or has a great back story, like Godunov or George Clooney’s wife, human rights lawyer Amal Alamuddin Clooney, a double bonus when both people are movie stars, like Douglas Fairbanks and Mary Pickford, each of whom they’d be following anyway, and the jackpot when the famous couple brings drama, like Frank Sinatra and Ava Gardner or Elizabeth Taylor and several of her husbands, but especially Richard Burton.

In the UK it might have been different with Fonteyn and Nureyev. I don’t know anything about the yellow press in France.

 

31 minutes ago, Mashinka said:

I don't understand this criticism of going into gay clubs, personally I've accompanied gay friends to several, it really isn't a big deal.

It’s not an issue for women, unless they care about it being held against their family, hurting their TV icon housewife and mother image, or if they were an anti-gay activist, and the hypocrisy has consequences.

That was nearly half a century ago, and It can still be a huge deal for straight men to have close, openly gay friends, let alone go to gay spaces, when the actual harm was being and is still done to gay and trans people.

 

[Meliss]

1 hour ago, Helene said:

 They always want to know “Who’s next?” and their interest in Godunov was as one of her serial relationships, not in Godunov specifically.

If you type "Bisset and Drai" in the search, 2-3 photos of them together will appear, and if - "Bisset and Godunov" - hundreds of photos.

[Quiggin]

9 hours ago, Meliss said:

Nevertheless, Baryshnikov in a gay club was a sensation for the press, wasn't it?

The Continental Baths – if that's the venue being referred to – was pretty famous in the 70s and open to a mixed crowd, a little in way the same group would check out some of the s&m clubs downtown in the 1980s. Bette Midler did a famous concert at the Continental Baths. Close friendships between straight people and gay people weren't career breakers then in New York.

[Meliss]

6 minutes ago, Quiggin said:

The Continental Baths – if that's the venue being referred to – was pretty famous in the 70s and open to a mixed crowd, a little in way the same group would check out some of the s&m clubs downtown in the 1980s. Bette Midler did a famous concert at the Continental Baths. Close friendships between straight people and gay people weren't career breakers then in New York.

I think it was even good for his career. I wonder if this is true - "Mikhail Baryshnikov has been vocal about not subscribing to labels when it comes to sexuality. In an interview with The Advocate in 2003, he stated, “**I never really considered myself gay or straight**. I have had physical relationships with men and women. I’m a very private person, and it’s always been my policy not to speak about my personal life.”

[volcanohunter]

Are there any photos of Baryshnikov at the Continental Baths? Was there any press coverage of him visiting clubs with Ailey and Jamison? I don't think so. It was something that Baryshnikov mentioned in an interview 30 years after the fact.

As for paparazzi photos, I wouldn't be surprised if the majority with Baryshnikov include Jessica Lange, a double Academy Award-winning actress with whom he was involved from 1976, by the way, until she began a relationship with Pulitzer Prize-winning playwright and actor Sam Shepard. Baryshnikov was interesting in and of himself, but Baryshnikov with a movie star was even more interesting to the paparazzi. 

[Helene]

Baryshnikov had to do little to further his careers in dance, TV, or film or to keep himself famous or relevant — which he still is, seemingly still on his own terms — other than dance and be open to opportunities people offered him.  

[California]

2 hours ago, volcanohunter said:

As for paparazzi photos, I wouldn't be surprised if the majority with Baryshnikov include Jessica Lange, a double Academy Award-winning actress with whom he was involved from 1976, by the way, until she began a relationship with Pulitzer Prize-winning playwright and actor Sam Shepard. Baryshnikov was interesting in and of himself, but Baryshnikov with a movie star was even more interesting to the paparazzi. 

There are oodles of photos of Baryshnikov at Studio 54 -- with Minelli, Warhol, the Jaggers, Gloria Swanson, Martha Graham. Google " Baryshnikov Studio 54"-images

https://www.facebook.com/the70sflashbackpage/posts/liza-minelli-and-mikhail-baryshnikov-at-studio-54-in-1977/685666110443257/

 

Edited September 1 by California

[volcanohunter]

Oh, I love the idea that Gloria Swanson visited Studio 54, with Eartha Kitt and Yul Brynner, no less. 😎

Apparently it was a benefit for the Martha Graham Center, and one of the guests was "Barry Shnikov."