Jump to content
This Site Uses Cookies. If You Want to Disable Cookies, Please See Your Browser Documentation. ×

Minorities in Ballet


Recommended Posts

Just curious. How far do you think we have come on this issue? My daughter (whose father is Filipino) recently took a class where the teacher was talking about not getting tans. She said that perfect ballerinas should have white skin, "like Snow White." I know there have been other threads on this issue, but I was just wondering what people thought of this issue. How far has the ballet world come concerning minorities?

Link to comment

Someone else will give a better answer, but here is mine. I think it depends on which companies, because it also depends on what they dance (if it's only strictly classical or some less classical too). At the Paris Opera Ballet, they don't have any "coloured" dancers (there used to be Eric Vu An, but he's not there any more), but they have some "asians". But the Royal Ballet has Carlos Acosta for example. The thing is, I think some people would be shocked to see in the middle of the corps de ballet in La Sylphide or 2nd act of Giselle, or 2nd and 4th act of Swan Lake people with dark skin, because it's unusual and goes against the tradition (even though no one ever said spirits are white and can't be anything else). That's probably because of history, because in those days, it was unusual to see people with dark skin, and even people who were tanned, so it probably seemed obvious to the people from this time that spirits were white etc, and never said it, because it was implicit that the dancers would be white, and then, it just goes on, and now people don't imagine it differently. I hope I don't sound racist or anything (I'm not really "white" either if it can reassure you on my thoughts).

Link to comment

We have had some very long discussions about this, and if you're interrested in reading them, do a search for "racism" or "black dancers".

(It's always good to revisit a topic. I will always post a note when something has been the subject of prior discussion, especially if it's been intense, for two reasons: one, people may be interested in reading them; and two, often when people have weighed in on an issue, they're less interested in doing it again, so if there aren't many responses to a revisited topic, it's not because the topic isn't of interest.)

Link to comment

When I danced professionally, we couldn't get tan lines or else we had to use body make-up for smooth coverage, but I think the 'color' issue is generally dead (or at least I hope so!) as dancers of all colors have definitely distinguished themselves in companies all over the world. Personally, I think the teacher you quoted is very much behind the times...

Link to comment

I think it's too quick to say this issue is dead. POB is a very large organization, in a society with a significant African minority (due to France's past colonial activity in Africa). And they have not even one dancer of African descent? Doesn't that strike you as somewhat of a bias?

Someone else pointed out that in America, it's common to see a few men of color in a company of all white women. That doesn't strike me as a dead issue either. Rather, it seems to stem from a greater willingness to allow for individuality among men --- and a greater trouble hiring men in general --- combined with an underlying bias against dancers of color.

And then there are the stereotypes. You know, the idea that if you're black then you should be doing hip-hop or Alvin Ailey or something, and singing gospel music. Ailey was a genius. But he's not for everyone.

It is still very hard for African Americans interested in traditionally "white" art forms. And that difficulty comes from both sides --- discrimination on the European end, combined with a "why are you selling out and trying to be white" on the African end.

Please do not conclude this is a past issue until you've personally interviewed enough minority dancers and heard it from them. Just listing all the African-American dancers you've ever seen could be doing them a disservice.

Link to comment

It's not dead. It's nowhere near dead.

I'm a carrot rather than a stick kind of guy, so I'm more apt to applaud minority hiring than berate the lack of it, but there's a need for both. And it's important to take a teacher who says something like that aside after class and simply ask him or her if s/he realizes the ramifications of a remark like that.

Tangentially (but I think it's germane), a recent WSJ article spoke about the fact that Mattel has stopped making different Barbies for children in different countries. Now, everyone gets the pale-skinned, blonde haired, blue eyed model. Research shows that's what sells, everywhere. It's a little chilling.

Link to comment

I don't think it's tangential, either. I read recently that the contestants in international beauty pageants tend to conform to Western (in pageants, that usually means Barbie-like) standards in figure and features. This isn't something the pageants are demanding as the price of admission -- those are the girls that tend to advance through the process, and to win.

I would agree that a remark like that shouldn't be allowed to pass. As Leigh says, it doesn't need to be done confrontationally -- sometimes people literally don't realize what they're saying. Although I must say that "white, like Snow White" is well, remarkably oblivious......

Link to comment

Ballet dancers make up a minority of the general population and I'm not sure it is an issue. Dance Theater of Harlem, Alvin Ailey, these are companies where the minority is the majority.

If you look at the audience makeups, there is a distinct difference there to. But that doesn't mean there's a problem.

It's just culture.

You could argue there are few blacks in the NHL or fewer whites in the NBA. It doesn't mean there's a bias.

When Eminem came up there was a big "oh my another Vanilla Ice" white guy wanting to be a rapper. But after a while, people noticed his talent, not his skin color.

There's an article in one of today's NY newspapers and Jackie Robinson's widow (Rachel) talks about the dwindling numbers of black baseball players, but they're are more blacks playing in the NBA now.

I think the teacher's remarks were plain ignorant, and someone should point out the insensitivity.

Link to comment

Calliope, while I agree that you can't just cite the numbers and say, "See, there's a problem," such great disparities can be one indicator of the presence of such a problem (as no one would know better than Mrs. Robinson).

Link to comment

but lack of numbers doesn't indicate a problem, perhaps it's just that the white community looks around and is uncomfortable that there aren't more minorities.

I certainly haven't heard (at least in baseball) anyone complaining they've been discriminated because of color or nationality.

Link to comment

Actually, I made a mistake, there was also Raphaelle Delaunay, who then left for Pina Bausch and now is somewhere else, I can't remember where exactly. I think Eric Vu An left the POB because he wasn't getting promoted (I'm not sure, and if he wasn't promoted, I'm not sure why either), but he recently danced at the Hommage to Nureyev, but it wasn't planned, it was because Leriche was quite sick, so he accepted to replace him. But at the moment, there aren't any "coloured" dancers in the POB, and I think there is one in the ballet school. But maybe it's also just because it happens that the ones who try to get in aren't good enough (since there have been some before, why would it be the colour issue stopping them from hiring coloured dancers?), but one can't really know.

Link to comment

su-lian, I'm not sure (as it was far before I started being interested in ballet) but I think one reason why Eric Vu-An left the POB was because he didn't get on well with Nureyev (and there was a famous incident when, at the end of a performance of "Arepo", Béjart announced that Vu-An and Legris were promoted to principal (both were sujets then), but just after that Nureyev said he hadn't authorized Béjart to do so, and no, they weren't promoted. Legris was promoted soon after, but Vu An wasn't). By the way, I remember reading an interview of Vu An (who now is the director of the Avignon Ballet, a small company in the South of France) in which he talked about his ethnic background; some part of his ancestry is Vietnamese (and his last name is Vietnamese indeed), but he also has some African ancestors, and in fact his family was a bit surprised at first that he got such dark skin and curly hair.

If I remember correctly, Raphaëlle Delaunay dances with the Nederlands Dans Theater.

There's also Jean-Marie Didière, who has one African parent and one French one (and who's going to retire at the end of this season as far as I know, because he'll turn 45, and who will be missed much, well, at least by me...)

I think there are a lot of parameters, some of them economic (ballet classes are expensive, and in France many people of African origin don't have high-paying jobs- well, discrimination has a role in it too :) ), the lack of exposure, the fact that in some cultures ballet might be seen negatively (for example I think some Muslim parents might balk at having their daughters wearing ballet leotards because it would be considered as undecent), etc. But comments like those mentioned in the initial thread really need to be addressed...

Link to comment

We cannot point to DTH and say "see, there's no problem." That is a rehash of the "separate but equal" philsophy of the segregated South. The fact that DTH exists indicates that there WAS a problem at the time of its founding --- and problably still is. Its goal was to provide a place for classical dancers of color. The only reason that was needed was because of the discrimination going on in the mainstream ballet companies. "Separate but equal" is not the same as equal opportunity. Just compare the budget of DTH to NYCB.

Ailey is a whole nother ball of wax. That company was founded on the choreographic genius of Alvin Ailey --- which in this case was heavily based in the African American experience. The company is a lot more ethnically diverse today that DTH because race was never its prime reason for existence to begin with.

Link to comment
Originally posted by dirac

I read recently that the contestants in international beauty pageants tend to conform to Western (in pageants, that usually means Barbie-like) standards in figure and features

While criticizing beauty pagents is a bit like shooting fish in a barrell, a recent Miss World (or Miss Universe, or something else international) was a Nigerian woman who conformed to all the Western standards but few if any Nigerian standards of beauty. She was tall and thin and probably could have hit the catwalk in Paris or Milan. According to a NYT article, people in Nigeria were shocked that such an odd looking person could have been Miss Nigeria in the first place.

Link to comment
I think the teacher's remarks were plain ignorant, and someone should point out the insensitivity.

Without trying to tackle huge minority issues, I think this quote sums it up well. I think speaking with the teacher is REQUIRED in this case. She/he has to be aware of the direct insensitivity of the comments. While it may not change old, ingrained and incorrect thinking, it will make the teacher aware of how his/her comments could hurt a young student. My guess is that "it never occured" to the teacher that the remarks were insensitive.

I have watched Giselle with a corp of Wilis that was as diverse as we are here in south Florida (twice actually, with two different companies), and remembered thinking is was actually an advantage to be able to pick our a certain dancer and follow her movements across the stage and not have her become lost in a "cloud" of Willis. I know this goes against the idea that they are all to be alike, but I didn't think twice about it, probably because the cast included members of asian descent, hispanic/spanish descent, african descent etc.

Link to comment

Oh, I think I need to clarify my intial remarks as everyone picked up on one word:eek: . I can only speak for American companies and as I personally know the ADs of most of the large ones, I think the prevalent view is that a dancer of color (remember that this is a phrase that covers ethnicity of many) attending an audition (in it's many variations) is as likely to receive the contract. But ballet, as with many activities, is economically unfeasible for large parts of our population. How many parents can see this life, with it's many economic uncertainities as something they can sacrifice for? In the Chicago area, after several decades of schools moving out to the more affluent suburbs, several of the major metro schools have begun community outreach programs to bring high quality dance education to areas of the city previously under served.

Link to comment

As a teacher who casts students in large and small corps de ballet works I would like to suggest that perhaps the teacher in question did not use the most diplomatic of ways to describe what can be considered when assembling a group of dancers together. Just as we try to combine like sizes, we also try to assemble bodies that blend well together as well as skin tones. That is not to say that dancers of differing skin tones may not dance together on the stage, it is only to say that dancers are put in order according to size, shape, hair color, and yes, skin tone. Ballet masters/mistresses and choreographers also need to consider who are the more experienced dancers and who has the strongest technique. It is not an easy job to say the least. The choreography and the production is what it is supposed to be all about. Those in charge try to make for a harmonious picture. As in nature, there are various tones on green, red, orange, blue white, brown and black. All colors have shadings. Ballets can use many different ethnic groups and still look harmonious, it just takes more thought and time to assemble the group. :mad:

Link to comment

I've found it interesting .that under strong (or moody) stage lighting so many skin tones tend to look quite alike. A friend of mine who had what she described as "cafe au lait" skin looked pretty much like every other wili on the stage.

Using City Ballet as an example, I'd say it's a lot more positive and artistically successful as well to have several minority dancers rather than the occasional one. One in the corps can sometimes look bizarre, like it has some sort of intention that isn't there. But a few become simply part of the world on stage, and one can get on to looking at the dance itself, which was the point in the first place.

Link to comment

citibob, you make good points about DTH of course, but don't they perform a lot of work with African and African-American influences? And if so, wouldn't they be the first choice of many of the African-American dancers who gravitate to ballet? And surely one reason for the budget disparity is that African-Americans are less likely to love ballet and more likely to lend patronage to art forms with African roots or strong African-American traditions. In a similar vein, how many African-American kids get ballet lessons? How large is the pool really, in this highly competitive art form? Finally, don’t dancers, like most artists, overwhelmingly lean to the political Left?

Link to comment

Thanks for all of these responses. I will speak to the teacher. My point of view is not as sophisticated as everyone else's. I am merely the mom of a dancer. I know a bit about technique and artistry, but as an audience member I know what I like to see. It may be that I have minority children that forms my bias. My preference in ballet is to see someone who can dance the part well, who has beautiful lines, who draws me into their dancing. Technique is important, as is artistry. Color of skin has never been an issue for me. I can watch a black "snowflake", an asian Giselle, a Hispanic Albrecht, etc. and be satisfied, as long as he/she dances her part well. That's just me.

My daughter did feel a bit hurt, but she is the kind of person who will take a statement like that and use it to prove her (the teacher) wrong. Not everyone would react that way.

Thanks again.

Link to comment

Mom... I would not call you biased. A belief in integration is not a bias. You have nothing to be ashamed of, and every reason to be proud of your children. The world is moving forward, becoming increasingly competetive with globalization. We have to choose one person over another all the time --- in hiring, education, housing, etc. The choices we make affect how we --- and our organizations --- will fare in that competition. More and more, people who make these choices over skin color --- rather than ability --- will simply be left behind.

KFW...

citibob, you make good points about DTH of course, but don't they perform a lot of work with African and African-American influences? And if so, wouldn't they be the first choice of many of the African-American dancers who gravitate to ballet?

Some yes, some no. There's a common kind of racism that if you're an ethnic minority that you're supposed to be overwhelmingly interested in "your" culture; but that if you're white, you can partake in any culture you like. The truth is this is a free society, and anyone should be able to follow his or her own interests. An African-American studying German should be no more surprising than a British-American studying German.

Another reason a place like DTH might be considered a preferred choice for the African American dancer is a fear of racism in other groups. This is a kind of ghettoization, and it can lead to abuse within the ghetto. Abuse is then justified by "we're the only people you've got, so you have to put up with us; the white people aren't going to give you the time of day." This type of abuse is only possible in a Separate but Equal system. White people can be abusive to white people; the same holds true in other ethnic groups as well.

And surely one reason for the budget disparity is that African-Americans are less likely to love ballet and more likely to lend patronage to art forms with African roots or strong African-American traditions.

Actually, the reason is a lot simpler. African Americans only make up 12% of the population. So if you're an Afro-centric group that does not appeal to a broader audience, you've already cut your donor base by a whopping 88%. The numbers are actually worse, since most of the really wealthy people in the USA are white.

On the dancer side of the coin, the numbers are also not favorable. If you only consider a fraction of the possible dancers for your group --- either only those that are black or only those that are white --- then you will not, on average, be able to hire as high quality dancers as an integrated dance company. The reason why is because the best dancers come in any color.

If you're running a white-only company, then this kind of racism in hiring will hurt your company's quality, but only somewhat. After excluding all the minorities, you'll still have plenty of qualified applicants from which to choose. But if you're a minority-only company, you've already excluded 90% of your possible dancers even before the audition is posted. This is a well-known principle in finance --- the more you limit yourself apriori as to what you invest in, the worse returns you'll get.

It is for this reason that separate but equal hurts minority artists and art groups a LOT more than majority artists and art groups. Integrated dance groups are the way to achieve the highest level of quality among dancers and the broadest appeal to the donor base.

In a similar vein, how many African-American kids get ballet lessons? How large is the pool really, in this highly competitive art form?

Interest in ballet among African-American children is certainly an issue, but not relevant here. The ballet schools can be thought of as a system. Put in 1000 children, get out 10 dancers a decade later.

If you find that there's a difference in ratios in what comes out vs. what goes in, then you have a case for bias. For example, you might notice that 970 girls go in, along with 30 boys. Ten years later, you have 7 young ladies and 3 young men ready to be hired professionally. In this case, it's clear that the system is MUCH more favorable to men than to women. We can make this claim without regard to the relative level of interest in ballet between boys and girls. Because in looking at the kids entering the system, we're already considering boys who for whatever reason expressed interest in ballet.

Men are certainly a minority in ballet --- a favored minority. But if you looked at African-American dancers, I'd expect you'd see the opposite trend. You'll probably see a SMALLER percentage of African-Americans coming out of the training system than going into it. That would be an indication of bias in the system against African-Americans; again, it has nothing to do with the relative levels of interest in ballet by the African and European communities.

Look, the above arguments seem to be saying "African-Americans just don't care about ballet; there are no interested patrons and no interested donors, so there's nothing we can do." As I've explained in detail, I just don't buy that. Listen to the stories, you will begin to see just how hard it is.

Link to comment

Originally posted by citibob [/i]

-- There's a common kind of racism that if you're an ethnic minority that you're supposed to be overwhelmingly interested in "your" culture; but that if you're white, you can partake in any culture you like. The truth is this is a free society, and anyone should be able to follow his or her own interests. -------

No kidding. Nonetheless, because African and African-American culture was so slighted in this country, many African-Americans are all the more drawn to it, from pride as well as affinity. It stands to reason that fewer devote themselves to ballet. As you say, in a free society, anyone should be able to follow his or her own interests.

------- Actually, the reason is a lot simpler. African Americans only make up 12% of the population. So if you're an Afro-centric group that does not appeal to a broader audience, you've already cut your donor base by a whopping 88%. The numbers are actually worse, since most of the really wealthy people in the USA are white. -----

That too, obviously. But the issue was racism in the dance world. Do you call that racism?

------ If you find that there's a difference in ratios in what comes out vs. what goes in, then you have a case for bias. For example, you might notice that 970 girls go in, along with 30 boys. Ten years later, you have 7 young ladies and 3 young men ready to be hired professionally. In this case, it's clear that the system is MUCH more favorable to men than to women. We can make this claim without regard to the relative level of interest in ballet between boys and girls. Because in looking at the kids entering the system, we're already considering boys who for whatever reason expressed interest in ballet. --

But you're assuming the interest will remain the same, from the early days of fun through the long years of great focus and committment. Perhaps it does, but I'd think cultural differences could play a role. How many potential Villella's stick with dance vs. boys from Manhattan? In the same way, a relative lack of community and parental interest and support could be a factor among minorities. I don't know that it is, of course. Perhaps most

African-American kids who take ballet come from families with broad cultural tastes. But I think it's a mistake to simply presume racism. And I don't know why you acknowledge it's an issue and then dismiss it as not relevant. Do you mean that more African-Americans should take an interest? I wish they would, but that's another matter.

---Look, the above arguments seem to be saying "African-Americans just don't care about ballet; there are no interested patrons and no interested donors, so there's nothing we can do." As I've explained in detail, I just don't buy that. Listen to the stories, you will begin to see just how hard it is. --

The arguments contained no such blanket statements of course. I don't some doubt racism does exist in the dance world.

Link to comment

This is a touchy subject, and I'd like to remind everyone about the importance of keeping a civil tone. There's a difference between sharp debate and tit-for-tat. I think everyone has behaved remarkably well so far :), but let's do try to avoid that slippery slope. Thanks to everyone.

it's the mom, thanks for weighing in, and let me take this opportunity to welcome you to the board.

Link to comment
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...