BW

Thank you Pamela. Though I hadn't read this thread in a long time, I'm glad I have reread it, especially now. The process sounds like "brainwashing". Or I suppose Jantelov might be a euphemism for mental cruelty.

I wonder is this just another question of "taste"...and where one person draws the line as opposed to another? I saw that male torso ad on a bus stop and did a double take - really thought it was a Calvin Klein underwear commercial. I understand what they're trying to do - to catch the public's eye and entice them into the ABT ballet world...saying it's not your great Aunt Winifred's ballet anymore... I just think it could be achieved with a bit more taste and wit. Easy for me to say! ;)

Ah... but, citibob, Pointe Magazine always has some dancers from various schools and/or companies in a mini piece about dance wear of some sort... to me, this Calvin Klein jeans type of thing is much, much different. It appears to me that ABT is more assertive than ever at having their name in front of the "masses"...and I suppose they're smart to do this but I would prefer it if they'd spend their money on starting their own school of ballet.

Although this is far from a course, there is a handy "library" on ABT's site and in it they have their ballet dictionary...which has some nice, little Quick Time videos of many of the steps being performed.

Gee, and I was just thinking I might finally get to see it.

This is really a tough call. I know that many posters on the board don't care for ABT's "Swan Lake" but, to the less experienced ballet goer, the costumes are great and the story line is very clear, however it is a long story ballet. On the other hand, NYCB's "Midsummer Night's Dream" is fun and light and not as - what some might call - cumbersome. I like them both. As Leigh points out, though, the cost of tickets at the Metropolitan Opera house are quite high. Go with your "gut" on this one and I'm sure you won't be disappointed.

Yes this article made me laugh - out loud in a not so well bred way - but I also thought it was a great review...albeit perhaps for the less baroque of us. ;) Seriously, I loved it! How does one applaud newspaper writers?

I do think exposure to many ballet performances is awfully important to learning to see the differences between "forests"... Alexandra's comparison about the Death Valley/Kirov versions of "Swan Lake" is a perfect one... and this can even be brought down to the nonprofessional level. For those who've attended different ballet school performances - especially if one is the parent of a young dancer - one can practically swoon with delight and awe at a local performance and think "Wow! These kids are phenomenally good! Look at Lulu pirouette!" but, then, if one gets around to other more competitive programs one may have a rude awakening. Of course, one is better off doing this. I'm relatively new to ballet. Only started attending regularly about 4 years ago - you know subscribing to Spring and Winter programs - interspersed here and there with visiting companies. Yet, even though I hadn't been a regular ballet goer 5 years ago - I knew the difference between really good and pretty bad, even back then. :rolleyes: We spent a year living in West Virginia and when Nutcracker season rolled around we were invited to see Charleston Ballet's performance at the capitol. We, former New Yorker Staters, were very excited and nervous that the performance would get "sold out" very quickly. My friend assured me not to worry and said "This isn't New York..." Boy, was she right. My then 7 year old daughter and I looked at each other during the program and almost cried. We hadn't even seen the NYCB's version...just the one done out at SUNY Purchase with guest performers, etc. This was the beginning of severe cultural withdrawal which led to a return to the NY metropolis. The quote Treefrog's latest post highlights is key. I think that you, Alexandra, must have taught a wonderful course. The fear factor for neophyte's who want to expound in a written or verbal form - especially around the educated - is a major handicap. I think this thread may turn out to be quite helpful. And yes, Cabriole - you did have yourself a good teacher, didn't you? P.S. I do think the points made about trying to concentrate on the different aspects of the ballet forest and its details are really helpful - even though it will initially make the ballet experience somewhat disjointed. Although I'm still interested in trying - I also do like to sit back and "sigh" with happiness, too. P.P.S. In the Anything Goes forum, I just read a kind of review...and although it is in part meant to be somewhat humorous, I found it rang true for me on many levels:From the Washington Post Yes, I laughed but she did catch something else in this article - for me anyway...at it wasn't just Swedish fish. ;)

Sign me up! I would love to take part in a course like this, if it were given at a higher level than the "meet the dancer" types of talks that are geared for "families". Calliope, can you give us anymore info on the ABT "course"? It wasn't in their Footnotes newsletter was it?

Our faithful Ari, who combs the news across the globe for the Links section, has posted one that might be appropriate for this thread...at least it might open up the choreographic aperature for Treefrog's creative offspring!;) It's from today's Village voice: - Wired Dance World Be sure to click on each article. I found them all worth reading...having been a fine arts photo major in college, I only wish that the whole video thing had been around way back then... There are many avenues out in this world and if one has a true love of dance but is not, can not, or chooses not to pursue their love of it by actually dancing...these articles may bring some other means to the light.

Thanks to you all who've added to this thread and, although there is not always a post in response - believe me your posts are being read! I think we all need to take a moment and silently thank the inventors of the Internet for their creative powers, don't you?

No doubt!

Although we did know about it, we were unable to see it due to the performances being on week nights. But please do tell us more, kiki!

Thanks for responding Calliope - I'd pretty much forgotten about this attempt at a thread! ;) I'm in agreement in re paying a hefty salary to someone who can't perform a role well. I am wondering: do you think that the "character" dancers are only paid per diem - or was that just a nice way of saying that a dancer can go out gracefully by accepting their limitations in certain areas and using what they have in others? P.S. Now that I'm no longer a youth, I've started to believe that the drivers license age should be raised up a bit at one end and lowered at the other...of course with strict government testing! ;) ;)

I appreciate everyone's responses and Leigh, I'm so glad you became a bit less crotchety in your second post! ;) I realize it's a seriously tough road...but I still appreciate hearing about it the different paths taken. And Treefrog, I really enjoyed reading your older daughter's choreographical diary from last summer - I hope she continues this year, too!

lillianna, when you say "know" do you mean really know as in to go up and speak to, or as in recognize from past performances? I like knowing dancers - as in having seen them over time...somehow it makes the whole thing seem more personal - even if this is just an audience member's illusion. ;) If I actually know them, in even a slightly more personal sense (as in having met them briefly...or knowing their long lost cousin), it definitely makes me pay attention to them, specifically more so... The better I know someone, the more I'm apt to keep my eyes on them - for me, it's inevitable. I do enjoy "following" a company's dancers - such as in a subscription to a series over the years... After reading on Ballet Talk about NYCB's "face" book of company members, we decided to buy it and I'm glad we did as it helps to put names to the various dancers who are not designated soloists or prinicpals, but who are nevertheless very good dancers. I like putting names to faces. Since we live not far from NYC, we tend to see NYCB and ABT...so "know" them better. I do like to read the ballet programs and the dancers' bios of visiting companies...just wish I had more time to get to know them all! So yes, in general, it is more fun.... though I still come can come away mesmerized even if I don't.

Well, thanks Leigh - I feel better now. Actually I guess I'm not alone in my reasons. Michael, I don't think it's as bad in NYC as you're describing but, perhaps, our paths cut a different swath? I can attest to a packed house at the never ending Phantom of the Opera and continue to be ensnarled in traffic jams all over Manhattan...from now on, rather than getting highly annoyed, I'm going to be happy about this because it attests to our city's still being alive! ;) Dale really seems to sum it up by saying: And Alexandra wraps it up completely with her last post.Still sorry not to see them.

I can't help but laugh - out of recognition! I must confess that when I looked at what they were performing at City Center I was not too excited...then I looked at their website and read what I could about those particular pieces. If I lived right in the city and if money was not even a second thought ;), then I probably would have gotten tickets and gone to see them. I really like to expose my ballet dancing daughter to different ballet companies whenever possible - but since the first two "if's" weren't available, I took the coward's way out and did not order tickets. I kept hoping to read something about their mixed rep. but really didn't...at least nothing to turn my thoughts around. I feel kind of embarrassed to admit to my pedestrian ways.. :eek:

Many thanks for the translation and information. I'm sorry that they won't be coming to NYC, but it sounds like a wise decison due to the specific financial reasons.

Thanks for the info! Guess I'll cross the Barnes Foundation off my list due to "spike heels"! ;) I agree it looks like an unusual place from its website! I'm going to get in there for the Met's exhibit, ASAP.

How does one become a choreographer - is there a specific education/training that people go through in order to excel at this art? Are all choreographers former ballet dancers and are they necessarily professional ballet dancers first? Do programs such as Julliard, in NYC, offer this as a major - yes, I know I can look some of these specific college things up...but I'm interested in a general answer here re going to college for choreography, as well. Is it more likely for someone with a major ballet company background as a dancer to have the opportunity to choreograph for professional companies? Recently my daughter's ballet school gave three students the opportunity to choreograph their own work on the top 3 levels of dancers there. I have no idea how they were chosen. One in particular stood out - very much so. Later in the week I spoke to her and encouraged her to keep at it. What is this field like - is it even more competitive than ballet itself? I'd love to hear some personal stories, if that's possible - but please, don't limit yourselves to this as a prerequisite!

atm711, did you go to The Barnes Foundation for the Degas exhibit? Sad to say, but I've never been to any museums in Philadelphia but I am looking forward to it this summer - July, to be exact. I've been wanting to make it into th Metropolitan Art Museum for the "Manet/Velazquez" show - thanks so much for reminding me. Tell me, did you find it super crowded? That's the one thing I hate about these bigger, sort of block buster, shows: too many people with bobbing heads! I'd better check the dates to make sure I don't miss it!

fendrock - in order to attend a rehearsal you have to give $10,000?!?!?! Wow! Maybe they ought to rethink their fundraising fee schedules! For me, in the past, one of the perks of giving really very little money to NYCB was to be able to bring my daughter to watch a ballet class and a rehearsal. Believe me, it was not much money at all... Sorry for the aside, now I'm getting into marketing techniques.

Loved it Ed - thanks! I do think it might have potential in the USA, don't you? I'm still a long term investor in Shelley...and I think Balanchine is one too hold, as well.

Just wondering, again, if you think what they performed - in the sense of a mixed bill - had something to do with the low turn out? If I recall correctly, their programs at City Center were all to be mixed bills.