SandyMcKean

OK, I'll bite..... Here is the list from the Bellevue Community College (BCC) website. I don't believe this large community college has a serious dance program. ------------------------ Volleyball (Aug.-Nov.) Fastpitch Softball (Feb.-May) Tennis (Mar.-May) Cross Country (Aug.-Nov.) Soccer (Aug.-Nov.) Basketball (Oct.-Mar.) Baseball (Feb.-May) ------------------------- Frankly I, for one, would very likely laugh out loud if I saw "Ballet" on ANY such list. But the spice of life is that we all see things differently

Hmmmmmm......interesting that you wouldn't be surprised to see Ballet listed as a SPORT offered by a college. Out of curiousity I just looked at the University of Washington webpage to see what was there. Nope, no ballet (and no music either ). I know the UW has an excellent dance program, so they certainly could have listed it. Here's the URL and the list of "sports" the UW lists (they use the heading "Sports"): http://gohuskies.cstv.com/s-finder/wash-s-finder.html ----------------------- MEN Baseball Basketball Crew Cross Country Football Golf Soccer Swimming Tennis Track WOMEN Basketball Crew Cross Country Golf Gymnastics Soccer Softball Swimming Tennis Track Volleyball ---------------------

I'd just let them be "ballet competitions". Doesn't change my perception that the question: "Is ballet a sport" is essentially meanless. I think you, and I, and many others would be surprised to see "Ballet" listed in a college brochure as one of the "sports" they offer -- listed right there with "Baseball, swimming, and badmitton" -- be the ballet offered competitive or not. I'd be surprised to see "music" on such a list too (or "dance" for that matter even though dance requires considerable athlete ability). No, I think the word "sport" has just too many misleading connotations such that comparing sport to ballet is pointless. One more example out of my own life. I do a lot of mountain backpacking. It takes athleticism of a certain kind (endurance for example). Altho there are no organized competitions, there are definite competitive aspects to it (I **will** make it to the top of Mt Rainier, and do so before you!). But I thnk it misleading to call backpacking a "sport". Ballet is even further removed with its artistic qualities. I guess my stripes are now showing. As long as one does ask the question "Is ballet a sport?" (pointless or not), it seems I clearly come down on the side that says: NO. It is a highly skilled athletic activity, but not a sport. I'd rather call a competitive chess match a sport than a ballet competition. Humans can compete over anything including playing Monopoly.

Yes. An athlete is a human who has a well trained body enabling him/her to due physical feats impossible without such training and practise. If that too sweeping.....then how about using the word "athletic" instead of "athlete". This question results from the underlying theme of this entire thread: ballet vs sport. Frankly, I think the underlying theme of this thread is meaningless. The operative question is: Are ballet dancers athletes? "Sport" brings in too many false comparisons (such as the distinction "art"). The question as posed in this thread is like asking whether the songs of birds are music. I like this question. There are many ideas already in this thread of course. My favorite?.....let's see.....how about: commitment. Once again, on the basis of dancers being athletes......forget "sport".

True, but you will get to see Carrie Imler doing the role. As much as I love Barker, that's a trade I'd make any day. P.S. I saw the dress rehearsal last nite (with Barker BTW -- who was superb). Very exciting. I fall down and thank my lucky stars every day that we have a company like this right here in Seattle. In my judgment, the only way I could see another company at this level would be to buy a plane ticket to New York!

I wouldn't even know where to begin to respond to Helene's excellent and insightful review, but I will attempt to give a pale, in contrast, counterpoint. This was my first Macbeth. Perhaps it was me that night, perhaps I need to see the piece a couple more times, but this night at the opera left me unsatisfied. I can only wish that I had Helene's eyes and ears to see and hear the details and nuances that she does, my brush will have to be far more broad. First off, I was put off by the set. In the Q&A session I attended (after the Gold cast), one of the first comments was from a guy who made the strong statement that in something like 20 years of opera and hundreds of sets, this was the worst one he had ever seen. Clearly it was a disaster for him. It was just as clear liistening to follow up comments from others that for many the set was a brilliant stroke of design and dramatic power. Jenkins said that the set represented being inside the minds of Macbeth and Lady Macbeth. With that explanation the sets suddenly made more sense to me, but during the performance I found them harsh and distracting. My reaction was not anywhere near as negative as this other guys, but I understood his, and I suspect some other patrons, reaction. Next, unlike Helene I strongly disliked the lighting. I did find the strong color washes going from one strong color to another as emotions changed to be very effective, but the harsh white light shining in from the sides often thru small doors to be once again distracting and even a bit "gimmicky". I especially did not like the white lights high on the set shining into the audience's eyes (I sit in the orchestra, from higher up this might not have been a problem). I also felt that the use of sheer curtains was overdone. Lastly, I truly disliked the witches. I found their bride like costumes, some the purity of white, others ominous black, to be too gimmicky. Witches ought to be witches in my mind, not brides: white or black. But really my problem with the witches was not their costumes so much as their movement. This brings me to my biggest and most strongly felt criticism: there was WAY too much movement on the stage -- it was just most evident with the witches. I felt this was huge mistake in direction. No only was the movement excessive (for no apparent reason in many cases) but so awkwardly done. Several times large groups of the chorus -- whether they be the witches or the "towns folk" -- dozens and dozens of them were forced to squeeze single-file thru narrow openings (thru a single door, or around the edges of a sheer curtain). I found myself completely taken out of the opera waiting for these huge mass movements to complete. The chorus members and supers looked like they felt awkward themselves having to line up and march like school children filing into a classroom. There were times when the witches swirled around one of the principal singers as a sort of malevolent force when I wanted to scream STOP IT. It felt to me that the director had simply made up his mind that movement on stage was to be continuous come hell or high water. OK....enough, already . That was the spectacle part. Musically I loved it. The conductor Nicola Luisotti was magnificent. Given my dislike of the visuals I often simply closed my eyes and let the music, and his conduction (is that a word??), transport me away. Verdi's music is always dramatic, but under Luisotti's baton it was dramatic squared while still wonderfully lyrical. I don't have the ear to say much about the singing except to agree whole-heartedly with Helene that Andrea Gruber was superb in the Sleepwalking scene. I will be very interested to discover what my reaction will be when I next see a production of Macbeth.

Am I the only one?? With all the "special" performances of PNB happening these days, I missed that there will be an evening of encore performances this coming June 11 at 6:30pm. It is a retrospective on the season just past (last "regular" performance for the 2005-2006 season will have been that same afternoon). This looks to me to be a superb evening. I ain't missin' it.........I can tell you that! Go here for more info: http://www.pnb.org/season/8encores.html P.S. Casting is also available on this site.

I saw the Friday nite's performance. This was my 1st time seeing the MMDG. I haven't seen all that much modern dance so my opinion is essentially worthless, but I will say I was somewhat disappointed. I am probably a bit of a "ballet-snob" and tend to love only it (I am also an avid fly-fisherman, but unlike most of my fishing friends who love to catch whatever, I tend to be snobbish and only fish for trout in high mountain settings -- believe it or not, I think these tendencies are related ). OTOH, I absolutely loved Pilobolus when I saw them last year at the same venue. So who knows what that makes me . Clearly MMDG has its roots in classical ballet. I really liked the ballet discpline, but at the same time, the freedom afforded by modern dance. My favorite was Cargo. As Helene described it (remarkably well BTW) the use of the "pole props" was spectacular. There was such tension and something primordial about how these dancers became a "tribe" around those poles. The movements that the poles made possible (via each dancer being able to use the support of other dancers via the pole) was striking. The other pieces were a bit too much gesture for my tastes. It may not be PC to say this, but I am snobbish enough to feel that several body shapes were not what I like to see in dancers -- I have no way of knowing, but I suspect that at least some of these extremely skilled dancers would not be able to find a place in a ballet company for this reason. I also agree with Helene that the singers and instrumental musicians were fantastic. I was truly moved by their musicality -- especially in the 1st piece ("Somebody's Coming to See Me Tonight"). I noted with interest that these musicians got a more enthusiastic applause than the dancers after this 1st piece.

Might have been. But I'm pretty sure that doing it on a regular basis after every performance began just his year. (But then I too could be mistaken )

If my memory serves, this practice has started only this year at PNB (with perhaps the occasional exception previously). I have assumed it is something Peter Boal initiated, and it has been done consistently this year. In my observation, the Seattle audience is slowly figuring this out. My guess is that next year the audience will be "trained". I agree with you that it is quite awkward with so many audience members standing up and gathering up their belongings (some actually "sneaking" out before the applause even gets rolling, even with the full curtain still up -- very rude I have always thought). My guess is that the problem is the Seattle Center parking garage. The way it is designed, one can end up a long line waiting for all the cars exiting to merge into traffic. Folks want to beat that line-up. I simply refuse to park in that facility for this reason. Indeed, by the time these newly instituted individual curtain calls come around, half the folks are milling around, distracted, not knowing what to do.

Here's a different but related issue. As I've said here before I think the audience is the audience, it will applaud as it does. There ain't much right or wrong about it. However, I will admit to something that can annoy me, and that is standing ovations (SOs). Here in "polite, nice" Seattle, I think we give too many SOs. To me a SO ought to be a bit rare and reserved for truly great performances. Too many SOs destroys the meaning in time. There seems to be an unfortunate habit that if after a performance, during the applause, 1 or 2 people stand up, then everyone somehow feels the need to stand up. I refuse to do this......and it ain't easy I can tell you to sit there with your vision blocked when all around you are standing! I just feel it is disrespectful to those future and past artists to whom I do give a SO to "water it down" by giving a SO at 50% of everything that is ever performed. To be fair to the Seattle audiences: I see this mostly at plays (Rep, ACT), and less often, but a bit too often, at the ballet; OTOH, it does not seem to be much of a problem at the opera.

Sorry, no time.....I am busy re-arranging my life to go again tonite . Hope to go again next Saturday too to see yet another cast. As a rule I am not a fan of story ballets. Forsythe is more my style. But last nite, for the first time I think, I put myself in the place of simply watching the quality of the dance: the actual dancers doing their moves with skill and emotion. I gave up my usual drug of allowing the power of the choreography, intensity of the relationships, the "power of the message", the transendance of the music, to transport me. I tryed to be more in the place of a "talent scout" and appreciate simply the execution, and how well the dancer creates the role. Well, I discovered how great Sleeping Beauty can be as a vehicle to observe lots of different dancers being showcased (even in short roles). Normally I would not go to see additional performances of Sleeping Beauty because it does not move me like say Artifact II, or even In the Night, do. But by going to 3 performances in the right combination I will get to see a bizillion dancers one after another. I am excited! And, BTW, a thanks to all in this forum. It has been the discussions I've read here in the last couple of months that have shown me the possibility of this. Without the insights you all have given me, I likely would have responded to Sleeping Beauty last nite in my predictable way of enjoying it, but being a bit bored, while looking forward to the upcoming Jewels program. Now to get a few chores done, make the call to the box office, and get my ass back down to McCall Hall at 7:30

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Exactly my point.

I agree about Chapman. Until Boal got here, she seemed to be perennially "stuck" in the corps. Peter brought not only himself, but his eye to Seattle.

Now here's a twist for you..... I'm a guy who loves ballet and have since my early twenties. I also love skiing, mountain climbing, back packing, and fly fishing. I'm a rough and tumble outdoors kinda guy. However, I never followed professional sports (they always seemed pointless to me -- like, one of the 2 teams was going to win, duh). Well, this all changed about 10 years ago when my best buddy and I were on a 4 day ski trip to Mt Batchelor in Oregon. There we were attempting to cook dinner (a typical steak, beer, and baked potatoes male menu) when my buddy asks if I mind if he watches a basketball game since nothing else was on (he is an avid basketball fan). I said no problem. Over the next hour he pointed out a few b-ball principles (that's principles, not princpals ) to me to enhance my enjoyment (which was minimal). Then the broadcast replayed a drive to the hoop in slow motion. It struck me like a ton of bricks....basketball players are finely tuned human bodies that move with unbelievable athleticism and grace. Basketball became a form of ballet for me in that moment. I have since become a fantic basketball fan (no other team sports tho). I can quote boxscores and salary caps with the best of them now. I even go to 10 Sonics games a year, sitting quite close so I can see those bodies doing their ballet! So don't poo-poo the cross-over possibilities (but 1st you have to get their attention). I have talked a few of my macho buddies into going to the ballet. I stress the athleticism and commitment in my sales pitch (and the fact of goreous human bodies if the truth be known.)

Thanks Helene. You didn't say, but I take it then that assuming I did all else right (I hit the Send button and I got a little dialogue box that seemed to say it got sent)........that the msgs would have sent OK. BTW, Helene, you missed quite a sweet little chance for humor in your reply. I just noticed I let myself in for a comeback when I said: "Hopefully it is waiting on something." You could have said: "........on Godot perhaps"

I have no doubt I can (and will). While looking for the Martin/William/Irwin video I worked with a librarian at the University of Washington to find it. We never did of course, but he did find me a 5 minute clip (must have been that marketing piece) in a library in NYC. When I said gulp....all the way in NYC, eh? He said no problemo. They have this "library sharing" system that allows me as a user to borrow any book, or other library asset, from nearly any library in the world, at no cost to me (ain't libraries wonderful!). I didn't take him up on it because I was looking for the whole performance. Indeed.....thanks dirac (BTW, my degree is in physics so I know who you are ) P.S. kfw, I just sent you replies to your PM. This is the first time I have PM'd here in this forum since I just reached 10 msgs. I wrote quite a long msg and sent it. But it never showed up in my "sent" box. Hopefully there it is waiting on something. I'd hate to think I will need to re-write my spontaneous prose!

bart, Do you know where one can get that video you mention? (Is it VRC or DVD?) I spent years looking for the video of Steve Martin and Robin Williams which I thought to exist since I had seen segments of it here and there. But I just found out a month or so ago (on a Steve Martin website of all places) that there definitely is NO video of what must have been a superb Mike Nichols production of Waiting for Godot. The video snippets are from a short marketing piece done at the time. I do have the recent “Beckett on Film” set (all 19 Beckett works for the stage) which is just great, but I'd love to have other performances of Waiting. P.S. While searching the net for a place to buy this Lahr video, I happened on a 1956 critic review of the production featuring Lahr. The critic, Brooks Atkinson, says the following partway thru the review. "Although "Waiting for Godot" is an uneventful, maundering, loquacious drama....." .......can you imagine!!!!! (My dictionary defines loquacious as "full of trivial conversation")

I can't go that far, but I do feel I've had some of the most powerful "conversations" of my lifetime with these characters (some, of course, don't even have names......but they all have existence!). The most powerful of all for me (so far) was seeing Bill Irwin's one man performance here in Seattle a few years ago in "Texts for Nothing". Irwin took selected passages from this Beckett work and did a sort of one man "Waiting for Godot" on stage in a bleak landscape while being generally "perplexed" as he "discussed" what it was to be an "I", referring to "they", and distinguishing "here" from "there". (Texts and Godot were written within 2 years of each other.) It was profound to me, so much so that I attended 3 performances in a row. As is so true about Beckett however, the performance was not for everyone. It is the only time I've attended the Seattle Rep Theater here in Seattle when several patrons got up and walked out mid-performance (there was no intermission; and some folks even left from the front rows in plain sight of Irwin). Beckett is a dream come true for me. He says in language what I would have thought could be not be said.

I completely agree. In any case, there can be no "rules" for applause. Applause ought to be an organic thing.....something that happens in the moment. No audience is right, and no audience is wrong......they are just The Audience. The Audience that nite does what it does....that's what makes it real and not gratuitous or phony. Sure I am distracted sometimes when an audience claps at a time I would perfer it not; but then I sometimes get annoyed when a audience seems relunctant to clap. And of course the scariest time is when YOU are the first to clap. I did this just in the last couple of weeks (perhaps for the 1st time). It just errupted out of me (yes, it was at the end, and the music stopped); there was a rivetting silence; someone had to break it; it happened to be me; I felt my instinct was right on (thank God!). When all is said and done, I remember a comment Jonathan Poretta once said at the Q&A after a PNB performance when someone asked this very question. His answer (paraphased): "We love clapping; there can never be too much clapping; clap as much as you want". (But having said all this, the most magical of all I think is what happens as stated in the quote above. The piece ends and all sit stunned in silence having been transported. I too have experienced "audience's oneness of sharpened attention" and that is the most magical of all.)

I'm afraid such a question is well beyond my modest powers of distinction. I feel lucky to be able to "see" the differences btwn various dancers in the same role at all, much less be in a position to tell you why I respond differently. Years ago I used to live in San Francisco (where I saw my first ballet on a whim while in college -- I was changed forever ). ABT, Joffery, and other companies used to come regularly, and I saw them all, sometimes every nite of the week. Then perhaps I could distinguish the "styles" of a company, or the quality of a company. But now I pretty much only see PNB, so I have little to compare to. Perhaps PNB is a ho-hum company to true experts, I have no idea......all I know is that I love them, and believe I've seen the company get better and better over the years. I suspect I am just spoiled by PNB and don't know any better.

Just to add my 2 cents. I have been a ballet fan for 40 years (20 at PNB). I operate exactly like Helene. My wife and I have subscription tickets, but I frequently go on my own a 2nd time specifically to see a 2nd cast. I almost never go a 2nd time to see the same cast (tho many times I'd like to be able to do that too). I just find it so much fun and educational to see different dancers in the same role. OTOH, since "Time and Other Matters" in the last program had only 1 cast (highly unusual, and done because Dumas didn't have the time or the inclination to work with a 2nd cast -- according to the Q&A session), I saw the same cast in that twice. My tickets were such that my first performance was on the 2nd nite, and the 2nd performance was the last matinee, so there was about 2 weeks between performances. WOW, did I see a difference! Of course it was a new and difficult work with roles created specifically for those individual dancers (wasn't the role for Arianna perfect for her!), so that in itself is unusual, but I could plainly see how the dancers had "grown into" the roles. That was cool too. So I guess it can work both ways. Also in my experience, ballet afficiandos (sp?) love to watch individual dancers and track their progress over the years. I rarely talk to another "ballet lover" without us talking individual dancers. I think there are a lot of ballet goers who feel that way. OTOH, I suspect most folks who can only go once, choose an evening based on their schedules rather than the cast that nite. Subscribers of course have no choice. P.S. For this time around my subscription tickets demand that I see Pantastico/Stanton, but say what you will, my favorite dancer is Carrie Imler (altho I have lots of other "favorites" too ), so my 2nd performance will no doubt be Imler/Bold.

My first thought was of Wagner's Parsifal......that would be interesting (altho I assume that book has already been written). So more to the point, then I thought about a ballet "equivalent" to Parsifal, or even a mini-Parsifal, and couldn't think of one. Where have you seen religious content or mood in ballet (other than perhaps in full length)?

My second viewing was last Thursday night. After reading your and others comments earlier in this thread regarding the pros and cons of having guest artists, I noted one of Boal's answers during the Q&A as telling. He was asked about using guest artists (by you for all I know since I believe from a previous post of yours that you were there too ). The fragment of his answer that caught my attention was when he said something along the lines of "see and be seen". It struck me as a pretty smart ploy on his part to increase the exposure of his company and his dancers to members of other companies (especially NY companies I would think). I believe he even said something about Seattle being a bit isolated up here in this corner of the country. Clever agenda I thought.