bart

The parts of Swan Lake I like best are apparantly not by Tchaikovsky. I ADMIRE Sleeping Beauty more, but we all have our little memory triggers, and SL reminds me of a childhood evening in Central Park (Act II pas de deux, Markova and Dolin). My real favorite in childhood was, for some reason, Pavane for a Dead Princess (a 45, too), played repeatedly and choreographed in my head. Decades later I saw a ballet made to that score (can't remember what) and was extremely disappointed. Very dull. p.s. Whatever happened to 45s? It was a lovely format.

I love all the responses. I guess I'm thinking of the power of the best art to lift the spirit. For example, the piano recitals given by Myra Hess in London during the Blitz (and broadcast on BBC). Or, in a darker form, the effect of Wagner on Hitler. In both cases, "abstract" music allowed audiences to connect directly to what they felt deeply were the most important values of their society. Insofar as it sustained them, uplifted their morale, stengthened their desire to live productively -- it did change society. As to dance, why shouldn't the effect be the same? There are of course, polemic ballets like Joos's great "Green Table," but I imagine that these are more likely to confirm political opinions already held rather than create new opinions. Ballets that tackle sexual exploitation or drug addiction or greedy capitalists probably haven't changed behavior very much. The dance that changes society is the dance that connects us to our best selves -- making us share the pleasure in human creativity. I don't mean escapism or sugar-coating -- though that has its place too. The discovery of Balanchine when I was 15 helped me to get through an specially stormy emotional period in mid-adolescence. Not only were his dances beautiful in a way I could not even have conceived -- they made me curious to see more of them and to stick around to learn more about the world in which they were created.

As a footnote to this long-lived thread, the current Dance Magazine quotes Pascale van Kipnis (NYCB): "Every NYCB dancer bangs her shoes. IIt's a requirement that we don't make noise.." P.S. It's interesting that of the 7 dancers interviewed for this article (including ABT, Danish, and Royal), only the NYCB dancer raises the noise issue.

I don't know how I missed seeing even photos of this production, but after the truly dreary and oddly colored designs for the NYCB Swan Lake, I am totally fascinated to find out that the Sleeping Beauty is beautiful to look at. Anyone have specifics? Or comparisons with ABT, Paris, one of the Royals? And how about the casting? Do you have a dream cast for this production?

Woops. I forgot -- never having seen it. Thanks Hans and Helene for catching this so quickly. I just changed the title from "Should they do it?" to "Should they (re)do it?) So let's rethink this topic. IF YOUV'E SEEN THIS -- WHAT DO YOU THINK OF IT AND HOW MIGHT YOU CHANGE IT (if at all). IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN IT -- THE ORIGNAL QUESTIONS STILL STAND.

This is interesting. I find that I can read expository prose on a computer screen if I am VERY FAMILIAR with the academic discipline and language. I guess this familiarity (internalized prior experience) permits me to "scan" efficiently and accurately. On the other hand, when the material concerns a topic that I'm not very famliar with, I find it extremely difficult to concentrate on screen. Perhaps that's because I have to pay equal attention to all parts of the text (lacking the background required to scan efficiently). In this situation, print on paper works so much better for me -- allowing me to move back and forth more easily, and permitting the use of the world's greatest intellectual tool, the pencil (for underlines and marginal notes).

Both Terry Teachout and Robert Gottlieb, in their short books on Balanchine, mention that it was a performance of Sleeping Beauty that sparked a passion for ballet in the young George Balanchine, up to then an unwilling ballet student. Gottlieb adds: "Balanchine's love for The Sleeping Beauty would last his entire life: In his final years he was still contemplating presenting it at the New York City Ballet." Do you think this is a project NYCB should (and could) do? If so -- and if they asked you to get involved -- what kind of Sleeping Beauty would you make? How would it differ from ABT's or the Royal's or something from Russia or France? What would it look like? Whom would you cast?

dirac just posted this review of Ballet Imperial with Vishneva and Zelensky.

dirac's link led me to to the NYTimes Archive, where each article is $3.95 ($1.60 each if you buy a 10-pack, but permission is for 30 days only). I understand the economics from the newspaper's point of view, but I have pretty much stopped accessing electronically archived material as a result of policies like this. One reason a researcher (or simple inquirer) reads this sort of article is because you DON'T know what it will contain. So much research in the social sciences and arts involves following false leads and dead ends. Or finding a nugget that leads you elsewhere. Or just blundering around for a while. Hard to do when the cash register keeps ringing and the unsable information and insights are slight. Blessed are the libraries that still keep newspapers on file -- or arrange to supply microfiche or other formats. And blessed are the computer sites (like Estelle's link to Warwick University) which provide abstracts of the article. And then -- and this is my OWN quirk -- I still have to print everything out if it's more than a few pages, not having mastered the art of focusing on computer texts for more than a few minutes at a time.

Paul, I'm trying to understand what you mean by "not appropriate." Seems like "not CONSISTENT (with the original premise or style)" might be more appropos. Whatever one thinks of Spartacus, there's a deep consistency in the movement vocabulary, the relation of movement to music, delineation of characters, and narrative methods. Another thought. I was just browsing through my underlines in Terry Teachout's book on Balanchine and found this ----- "Instead of concocting redundant visual equivalents of the rhythmic surface of a symphony or concerto, he [balanchine] plunged into its inner structure, moving his dancers in silent counterpoint to its unfolding action." Grigorovitch's choreography does what Balanchine tried to avoid. It rides the music. Illustrates it. There's always a place for that (done well) in dance. Think of the choreography for Mickey Mouse in Sorcerer's Apprentice !!!

Thanks, chrisk271. Sorry for the over-rapid post and oversight. Reviewing the rest of SW in my memory, I can't think of anything other than mime that would not work -- and lots (LOTS) that would be quite wonderful in a stripped down design setting. Imagine how strangely beautiful the ethnic dances would work without all the costume signals and many of the exaggerated gestures.

Thanks,julip, for a challenging topic. You are not the only poster to feel somewhat ambivalent or mixed up about this. I guess I think of "art" as something one develops after -- sometimes long after -- leaving art school. As for "great art," there's much disagreement. But it's probably better not to rush out and heat up the branding iron to burn those words into any creative work or aesthetic system. Mel's idea of staging Petipa in practice clothes against a simple lighted scrim, a la Balanchine, is intriguing. And I wonder: WHICH part of WHICH Petipa ballet would make the translation best? and which worst? My first thoughts come from Swan Lake. Best: the Act II adagio pas de deux (violin solo). Worst: the little swans. Or would it be the opposite?

Great idea to start with each kid's "own design" and then to show them how that can be expanded by knowledge of other techniques and styles. So much of the narrowness of teen culture boils down, sadly, to the lack of opportunity to learn new, often larger, and more disciplined, ways of expressing themselves. Congratulations to the Joffrey.

I'm "not addicted" either. Query: what do they mean by addiction"?

I need some help here. I love the ballet, but am also aware how out of the accepted loop it is as regards plot of "style". Thanks, Paul, for clarifying this for me. Zerabinetta, your original take on Spartacus actually gave me the idea for this thread, and thanks for that. What specifically in the choreography is "trashy," in your opinion? Do you mean extreme? obvious? limited in scope? exaggerated? I'd appreciate other comments on this, too, since I don't seem to have the knowledge to give form or words to my very strong impressions. P.S. Mel. I'm a big fan of Fall River Legend ever since seeing it long ago at Ballet Theater. Anyone know the dancer who originated Lizzie? The stepmother? They were phenomenal, especially all the externalized psychological angst. Ditto the more contemporary feeling Dance Theater of Harlem production which I saw on video.

Alexandra, thanks for mentioning Petit. I've seen (on video) the last scene of his Cyrano de Bergerac. Petit danced the title role. The death scene is a masterpiece of obviousness, with Petit -- unwilling to admit to Constance that he has been mortally wounded -- does several courtly steps, then staggers a bit, then does more courtly steps, and on and on. Meanwhile, Constance does virtually nothing. The scene in Rostand's play is so wonderful, you can't help but admire this sincere but ridiculous attempt to turn it into dance. Turn off the music and you have a rather touching 20s silent film.

In the Spartacus thread, zerbinetta makes a paradoxical point -- but one that has the ring of truth. This set me to thinking: there must be others. Are there any other ballets --or bits of ballets -- that strike you as being "bad" work" (cheesy, tasteless, over-the-top, ludicrous, pompous, sophomoric, or whatever "bad" means to you") but which have "greatness" in them, or which you personally enjoy a lot, in spite of or maybe even because you know they're not great work? Right now I can only think of an opera -- Fanciulla del West in each of the several productions I've seen. Despite some beautiful music, the English title -- "Girl of the Golden West" -- makes me cringe. Ditto the bizarre images of frontier life and the recurrent cries of "Minnie," "Minnie". (Mouse? Mouse?) I've returned several times to see if anyone can really get it right. Any similar reactions to ballets or ballet-parts?

After reading so many of your reviews and reactions to this season, I have to conclude that the MOST IMPORTANT LOW is that the season wasn't taking place 1000 miles further south. Bart (of Florida)

Thanks for the great report, ignacio_20. The company's repertoire of full-lengths and "fragmentos" is huge. It was interesting to see names very familiar here: Balanchine (Tchaikosvsky Pas de Deux), Bujones, Alonso, and Gamonet (active in Miami) as well as others with pan-Latin-American connections. You mentioned that the company went to Guayquil. For next season they mention only performances in Lima. Do they travel out of the country on a regular basis? Or in the rest of Peru?

Not to mention all the "Ballet" companies in Spain -- Ballet Nacional de Espana, los Ballets Espanoles, Ballet Teatro Espanol, Ballet Antologia, Compania Talent Danza Ballet Espanol. Several, based on my performance observation only, do seem to use ballet (in our sense) as part of their training, incorporate the occasional dancer from a more conventional ballet background, and incorporate ballet in some of their movement vocabulary. Ballet Victor Ullate, which has Giselle, etc., in its repertoire in addition to more Spanish material, is the only ballet company we might recognize as such. I remember a Don Quijote in Madrid about 8 years ago -- Kitri, Basilio and a few others dance "classically," but the rest -- a gang of gypsies around a camp fire, for instance, are pure, theatrical "ballet espanol." And then there's the interesting term "clasico," as in "danza clasico espanol." Petipa it isn't.

Seems that Dolly Dinkle is only following the Balanchine example.

My mother, whose family nationality was Czech (Austro-Hungarian Empire, that is) was a serious ballet student in the 20s in Manhattan -- serious enough to have considered going to Europe for training while still a teenager. I remember her saying that "toe dancing" in those days was a very common expression even among dancers, used to distinguish ballet danced on point from ballet -- often ethnically derived -- danced in flat shoes. "Ballet" appears to have been a rather broad term, at least in New York City long ago. Anyone else have an insight into this?

Ferri/Eagling are included in the Kultur "Great Pas de Deux" DVD -- the balcony scene. I really liked it. Not having seen Wayne Eagling before, I was very impressed -- and touched. I rembember the Fonteyn/Nureyev/McMillan very fondly. The videography (B and W) does strange things with the faces at times. But Fonteyn's Juliet, which I also so on stage from fairlyl close, was the most deeply "felt" portrayal I can imagine. I really liked the adolescent passion in the Christopher Gable/Massimo Moricone version for Northern Ballet Theater. This was filmed by BBC in 1992, and I know it was shown on A&E network about a decade ago, when "A" actually stood for "Arts". This was young, hormonally passionate, and very touching -- the only version ever to have brought real tears to my eyes (they are so young!). One influence was clearly the Zeffirelli film. I don't know if this is currently sold in the US. Thanks, BalletNut, for the Ferri/Bocca/ABTNOW reference. This DVD had somehow made it to the bottom of the pile, unwatched. Can't wait for this evening.

Hans, Wicked and brilliant! And disillusioning !!! Does any of this really happen? (Question is based on pure -- not to mention blissful -- ignorance.)

vagansmom asks why some men like Austin more than other female writers. When I read the first post in this thread I also thought: well I like Jane Austin. I've read each novel several times with great pleasure, but admit to "not getting" the extreme adoration of the Janeites. So what about vagansmom's question? I think that subject matter has a lot to do with it, for me at least. Looking through my shelves, I find that most books by contemporary female writers that I have read and kept are actually serious historical fiction rather than works set in the present. (About helf and half female-male.) The novels I have that are situated in the present or recent past tend to be pretty exclusively by men. I had never noticed this before. Perhaps I read and re-read Austin as a kind of historical novel -- fascinated precisely because many of the situations she deals with (eg. gentle pursuit of, or waiting for, socially and emotionally appropriate husbands) are so very arcane and distant to my own concerns. Her use of irony is gentle (to us, though sometimes sharp in context), which is a wonderful break from the way contemporary fiction views and hammers social interactions. The pace of life is slow; the concerns are based in family and small commuities; the manners are delicate and rule-bound compared even to our best; the rebellions are tiny and often held inside; the political and economic forces that form us are kept well out of the conversation and apparent concerns of the characaters, though they do have an impact -- mostly indirectly. (Yes, I KNOW that books have been written recently about X's family's involvement with the slave trade, the evils of primogeniture, and this or that piece of legislation pending before Parlliament. Knowing this adds only a little, I think, to the novels. What is NOT talked or thought about is still quite striking.) I quite understand vagansmom's husband's practice of reading Austin a small bit at at time. This is something to be savored before forging back out into our brasher, cruder, more complex world and our great, gulping approach to life today.