kfw

aurora quoted abatt, who used the terms "modesty" and "demureness." She did not put those words into abatt's keyboard, and she rightly pointed out how demureness is gendered in definition, a double standard when not expected of boys. I could be wrong, but I don't remember a trail of commentary or distaste when male dancers have done what, by the standards applied to Copeland, are far from modest in photos. I wrote that " I think modesty is every bit a gentleman's responsibility as it is a lady's," and aurora countered - to me, not abatt - with the dictionary definition of demure, which had nothing to do with it. That's clear. And I find the shots of male dancers that she posted as distasteful as the one of Copeland. As I was saying . . . Tapfan, Copeland herself has said she wants to be a role model for black kids. I can't imagine what's wrong with noting that she is one. It doesn't imply she's only a model for them. Does anyone object when people cite Obama as a great role model for black kids? The irony is that for the most part she has been a fantastic role model for any kid.

Speak for yourself. I think modesty is every bit a gentleman's responsibility as it is a lady's. And I know many, many people who think the same. Read the dictionary definition of demure as quoted. It is gendered. Read what people actually write and quit putting words in their mouths. I didn't even use the word "demure" (which is indeed gendered, and which is only one form of modesty- women can be modest without being demure), What I am telling you is that I and plenty of other people hold men and women to the same standards.

Speak for yourself. I think modesty is every bit a gentleman's responsibility as it is a lady's. And I know many, many people who think the same.

Well put. aurora wrote: Right, which is why I said no such thing. Nor did I say, or do I think, anything as bizarre as that “girls should grow up to think their bodies are shameful or distasteful,” or that showing a nipple is "really a horrible offense.” Not every unfortunate act is horrible, or is an offense. Again, tone matters, and the wrong tone distorts content. See above. I’m sorry to say, I’m not surprised.

Would you say most of those details are captured in the 1986 film? I suppose it would be impossible to catch them all, since closeups of some details would cut out others taking place at the same time. I'm also curious about whether the choreography or the staging have changed significantly since the film was shot. And was the film a pretty accurate record of the ballet at the time?

That argument would apply here if only very young girls looked up to Copeland, and if those girls could be expected never to grow up. The other thing that should be said about “strumpet” and “wench” is that not only are they inaccurate in content - to use kbarber's words, no one's comparing posing for a photo with "promiscuity" or "prostitution" - but their tone is all wrong. it’s possible to criticize without insulting, and to criticize people for one thing while admiring them for another, as I have done. Caricatures distort, and blur the difference.

Let it be noted that "strumpet" and "wench" are dirac's sarcastic caricatures of my own thoughts. In other words, they bear no relation to anything anyone here has actually suggested. Also, Copeland’s hardly the first dancer to display herself, but she may be the first to do so while claiming to want to be a role model to young girls, and that has been the context of the actual criticism.

Not necessarily for purposes of facetiousness, but I'm quite happy to substitute "nipple-displaying wench." Cute.

I notice that Kramarevsky is still scheduled to do Drosselmeier Saturday night. LaFosse replaced him at the 1 p.m. show this past Sunday.

& It's right here. Cover up that nipple, strumpet! OMG, had i been a mother, i would under NO circumstances allow my children to be near a person wearing such an outfit. Moreover, a ballerina (imho) should be a person of a bit of a better refined taste and manners that a typical person. Never fell in love with her as a dancer (her body is too bulky to my taste), but with more (untasteful & politicized) PR done with her name - the less insentive i have to support or be interested in it (but i couldn't help reacting to that (OMG so untasteful) photo) Well said. I respect other, differing opinions here, but yours is one I share. Tapfan, I think interviewers are just doing their jobs by asking about what the general public is interested in. dirac, there is a big and obvious difference between saying someone’s being a poor role model and calling her a strumpet.

Mearns was scheduled to dance Dewdrop on Friday but was replaced by Hyltin. Not sure if she has danced at all since the Nutcracker run started She danced Sugar Plum Fairy w/Catarazo at the 1 pm on Sunday.

Thanks for posting, cobweb. I saw the same show and couldn't have been more pleased with the entire cast, Reichlin and Hyltin and LaCour especially. Judging from what I could see on the video screen on the promenade after the performance, Reichlin and LaCour did some sort of TV or perhaps AOL interview on stage. I don't know what it was for, but I thought it was very gracious of them to do it right after a performance.

Yeah, I'm sure she has her reasons, I just wonder if they're financial or artistic or both. Holowchuk has been such a vital part of the company, someone to look forward to seeing again every year, that I'd love to see her awarded that highest ranking.

Sarah Kaufman gives opening night a mixed review: Suzanne Farrell Ballet Soars in 'The Concert," Stumbles in 'Swan Lake'. Helene wrote: That must have been something! That's one ballet Farrell's never brought to D.C. Jack wrote: I'm a little surprised Holowchuk's still listed at First Soloist level, given that she has danced more lead roles than anyone else in the company with the possible exception of Magnicaballi, and many more than some other company principals.

Thanks for posting, Jack. One beautiful detail in particular stood out for me in Magnicaballi's Swan Lake tonight that I don't remember seeing from Hartley this afternoon (I may have missed it), although I enjoyed her performance equally. Right at the end, just before she boureed (if already fading memory serves) backwards away from the Prince and towards von Rothbart, she put her hand on his head and gently pushed it down, as if to say, "I don't want you to have to see me leave," or "you must let me leave," or some such thing. It was a tender moment in a gorgeous performance. From principals to apprentices, the company, in our opinion, looked just wonderful - as good or better than ever.

Another liberal-minded arts world type gives Misty a platform...... Such cynicism. Copeland’s an up-and-coming dancer, an African-American dancer, and a dancer much in the news nowadays. Those are three good reasons to invite her back.

For Woetzel to book Copeland sounds like a no-brainer. I guess the schools will be closed then, but perhaps she’ll do outreach programs anyhow. The festival’s website says it “presents a variety of off-stage events, including free performances, community events, unique educational opportunities, master classes, discussions and more,” so it’s a good bet that she’ll do a “community event” or two. Perhaps some day the country will be able to discuss issues without remarks and opinions being monitored for any possible racist overtones, but both racism and the urge to see and then condemn it are human nature.

And now that I've taken the time to watch them, I can report that they yield several clues about casting.

Tapfan, I can imagine how I’d feel if no one wrote about the music I like, but everybody knows how much white people love and have loved black music. I have to wonder how many African-Americans, critics included, had an interest in the white bands of Jackson and Prince’s day. I was an avid concert and club-goer back then, and except for blues clubs on the (black) South side of Chicago, and to a lesser extent jazz clubs, I remember seeing very few.

Thanks, Jack. I just noticed several short video interviews with SFB dancers on the company's Facebook page.

Tapfan wrote Well it wasn’t coming from me, because I stopped listening to contemporary pop years before their time. Also, where’s the “outrage” about Misty Copeland? OK, to be fair, I’ve seen it on another site. But not here. Prove? Maybe they just didn’t like that much black pop of that era. Is that racist? Did black critics like second and third tier white stars? I have a white friend who was so upset when Michael Jackson died that he couldn’t go to work the next day, but give me Otis Redding or Miles or Monk or Muddy instead. Or Eric Owens. Appreciating diversity doesn’t mean loving everything equally. No one does that, or can – or should have to. Diversity entails accepting diversity of taste too. I think that’s the ideal. Kathleen O'Connell wrote I certainly understand why a dancer of color would have doubts, and of course you make good points about NYCB casting. I always wished Evans (and Soto) had gotten Apollo. I wish Craig Hall would. Helene wrote It wasn’t clear, but thanks for clarifying. King wanted us to ignore skin color when making judgments. That means not making negative judgments based on skin color, but not making positive ones either. It’s only natural and good to want to rise to the defense of African-Americans any time race is part of the conversation, but that doesn’t mean African-Americans are always right all the time either. Yes, King’s dream is still a long ways off, but I think that natural and good impulse can become counter-productive hypersensitivity. I’m shocked we haven’t convinced each other and switched positions. I understand your reasons for believing her perception was accurate. I’ve given mine for why I question them. They could be wrong.

Amen to that!

I don’t believe anyone has any doubts why Copeland’s getting so much attention outside of the ballet world. don’t teach class, promote, or cast. Copeland isn’t claiming David Koch held her back. Decent people help people who’ve been disadvantaged. I assume - or if you will, presume - ABT is filled with decent people, Therefore Copeland probably received more support than opposition, if she did receive opposition. I’ve expressed admiration for Copeland – but not unalloyed admiration. Finally someone comes right out with the charge (although very carefully because BA rules forbid ad hominem attacks), the standard charge whenever someone criticizes a member of a minority. People are just people. though, and we won’t truly have a colorblind society until we all get past that.

She's darn lucky to be black, if you ask me. Since, all things considered, being black is a still a handicap in America, it’s therefore simply not possible that any black person at any time anywhere in the country could benefit from being black. The one simply rules out the other. That’s the (il)logic of your sarcasm. Also, since black people have suffered so cruelly, any African-American who claims any specific instance of racial victimization is to be believed about that instance, period, and questioning her story is offensive. Somebody somewhere once talked about judging people by the content of their character, not their skin color. It looks to me as if Copeland, like the rest of us, is a mixed bag.

That’s where we disagree, and that’s why I asked, rhetorically, if you’d hire an African-American over a white person with the same qualifications. I think that the arts and academic worlds are dominated – and I don’t mean that pejoratively – by liberals. Therefore Copeland is more likely to have encountered encouragement than discouragement, or at least more of the former than the latter. If you think I think “everyone” anything, or that I dismiss rather than suspect her story, than I’m afraid you haven’t read what I said (at length) carefully. I have repeatedly said why I suspect it. If she’s thanking people who have helped her especially, who wanted her especially, to succeed because she is African-American, good for her. I haven’t seen it. I don’t think perfect perception is the issue. The basic accuracy of the narrative is. But yes, as I think I said elsewhere, she could easily think she perceived racism, even if it wasn’t there. Can’t blame her for that. See the bottom of page two of this thread. Sure, but we’re talking about modeling behavior for kids and teens, and there are ways to be sexy and sexual without being provocative.