dirac

I have ambivalent feelings about the “overrated” label. There’s a scene in Woody Allen’s Manhattan in which two of the characters are playing a “most overrated” game, and Allen loses his patience and says firmly, “All of those people you mentioned are great.” Or words to that effect, this is from memory. I would define a work as “overrated” if there is a critical consensus that it’s really great, and I think it’s not so great. The Sound of Music would not qualify as overrated for me because although it was very popular, the more discriminating critics didn’t care for it, and although it has achieved classic status there’s no one who’d call it art. (I’ve always liked it, myself, although I don’t think it’s a great movie.) I would call Million Dollar Baby overrated, because it won a slew of awards and there was a powerful critical consensus on its behalf, and I disagreed with pretty much all of it....... Canbelto, I think you’re giving the Western genre waaaaaaaay too much credit. One candidate: Psycho. A virtuoso slasher pic, but still a slasher pic, and people write about it as if it’s a great aesthetic experience. Gives film criticism a bad name. Yuck. I prefer earlier Hitchcock, when he wasn’t allowed to cut up the ladies with such graphic enthusiasm.

I’m familiar with that production of Traviata mainly through the wonderful photographs in John Ardoin’s coffee table size “Callas.” And the pirated recording, of course. The production was indeed beautiful, and the slimmed down Callas looks ravishing (as do the jewels; I’m going to go back and take another look at them as I didn’t know previously that Visconti had insisted they conform to the period.) I didn’t really get the “bridal” thing, either. Perhaps if someone checks out the exhibit they can report back to us?

London’s Royal Opera House is exhibiting stage jewelry worn by Maria Callas through January of next year.

Sorry, Giannina, I didn't mean to suggest that I disagreed with you on that specific instance. Not having seen the production, I can't judge, but I'm sure you're right. I intended to make a more general observation. GWTW makes another good point. If a performer's anatomy doesn't resemble the ideal, or the "norm," that can also be a distraction in itself, even if the nudity per se isn't bothersome. klingsor writes: Now there's a thought.

I’ve only seen The Rainmaker once, many moons ago, and I remember enjoying it, but that’s all. I’ll have to seek it out again. (I do recall thinking that Lancaster was a little Too Much.) I’m with you. I also enjoyed The African Queen and I can understand why it’s beloved by so many – I just don’t happen to be one of the many. I think it’s one of the great funny love stories of the screen, but the movie as a whole is a mixed bag. Check. I would add David Wayne, who steals every scene he is in. (Too bad there’s no scene with Holliday and Wayne together -- the two of them could have duked it out for the title.) I do love the climactic scene where Tracy is waving his "gun" around and Wayne takes cover behind Hepburn. tancos writes: Looked it up on imdb.com and it sounds appropriate. Another one for me to look for....

Regarding Tracy and Hepburn: I agree that most of their movies together are not really that great, with the exceptions of Adam’s Rib, parts of Woman of the Year, and my own personal favorite, Pat and Mike. On the other hand, we probably owe to the partnership with Tracy the fact that MGM kept Hepburn under contract at all. Her movies at the studio without him were not very good, and at the time he was the more valuable property. And I couldn’t agree more about their relationship offscreen. Tracy was an unhappy man, but I’m most sorry for the unfortunate women – Louise Tracy and Hepburn – enmeshed in his toils. (For me, he’s not a very interesting actor, either. I’d just as soon watch his MGM rival Clark Gable, who was not technically as good as Tracy but a much more vibrant presence.) Pat and Mike, to return to our muttons, is one of my favorite romantic comedies, although strictly speaking it’s not as good as Adam’s Rib. In many of Hepburn’s films after she recovered from her box office poison era, such as Woman of the Year, the subtext is often “Putting Kate In Her Place.” She has to learn that she’s not so special and let the man take the lead. In Pat and Mike, Tracy, as her coach – she’s a star athlete in multiple sports-- loves her because she’s special, not in spite of it, and for once the two of them really are, as he says in the picture, “five-oh, five-oh.” It’s her stuffy fiancee who drags her down, and in P&M Tracy is the agent of her freedom, not the cause of her surrendering it. It’s lovely to see, and Tracy is terrific. “Summertime” isn’t a big favorite of mine, IMO. I thought it was a little overblown for a story that should be kept small scale (read Arthur Laurents’ original play and you’ll see what I mean). But then I don't much care for those Love Starved Spinster roles that Hepburn had to play later in her career.

klingsor wrote: Just a tip of the hat to klingsor for bringing in David Brian.

Ed Waffle writes: It’s off topic, but it’s very true that Peck tended to play men of restraint (sometimes to the point of dullness). Restraint isn’t really called for among today’s big male stars. A Peck character isn’t beyond violence or incapable of it, but he doesn’t use it unless it’s necessary – and these days it’s almost always necessary, somehow. In The Big Country, to give only one example, Peck refuses, over and over, various opportunities to show gratuitously what a tough guy he is, and only until pushed to the limit does he do what a man’s gotta do and rescue Jean Simmons from the clutches of Burl Ives, et al. (If the movie were remade today, Peck would find her raped and beaten body and then go on a bloody and graphic rampage.) In re: Casablanca. I always had the impression that Rick and Ilsa do in fact resume their affair, although it is nowhere stated.

Thanks to everyone who’s responded so far – keep them coming! I have no problem with nudity per se, but I agree with those who have said that such a potentially combustible element should be used rarely and with caution, not to mention consideration for the dancers. It can be a major distraction for the audience, and unless you have aesthetic reasons for wanting them so distracted, extreme caution is called for. (Even very minor nudity can take you out of the ballet in this way. There’s a bit in Mark Morris’ “Sylvia” where one dancer bares his butt to the audience briefly, and all of a sudden there’s nothing else onstage.) bart’s example of Salome’s dance is a good one, as is shulie’s citing of the Tannhäuser bacchanale. I also think that the bedroom scene in Romeo and Juliet is a place where some nudity might be appropriate – after all, Romeo and Juliet have just spent an impassioned night in the hay and it’s most unlikely that she’d have her nightie on. On the other hand you then have to find a way to dress the happy lovers for dancing. It could be managed, but probably with difficulty, and it’s just simpler to have them clothed. Giannina writes: I must disagree respectfully with Giannina on this one. My own feeling is that this kind of cover-up is more distracting, and certainly more coy, than actual nudity. Dress the fellow up, or not, but avoid the fig leaf device.

I forgot to add that "Lone Star" is an interesting choice, Ed. I'm going to check it out.

Robert Altman, not a director known for his theatre work, will stage Arthur Miller's last play for Spacey and the Old Vic. http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,1565859,00.html I don't know about "inspired," but we'll see.

This fairly long article by Sharon Verghis for the Sydney Morning Herald is an overview of the current debate over nudity and ballet, and I thought it would be interesting to canvass our posters for opinions on the matter. Here's the link: Out of step over shock of the nude This topic has come up before, but I thought it might be time to bring it up again for some fresh perspectives, assuming we have any. What do you think? Is nudity always acceptable? Never? Occasionally? Verghis cites some recent examples by contemporary choreographers; have you seen any, and how did you react?

I agree with you, canbelto, although I also thought the most tender scene in Waterfront involved Brando and some dead pigeons. I can’t stand to watch that scene. And a recent mediocre entrant in the romance sweepstakes, "The Notebook," stole shamelessly from the "East of Eden" Ferris wheel scene. (It’s off topic, but I think Kazan was essentially apolitical with liberal tendencies. He got involved with politics because in the Thirties everybody did, and then times change and twenty years later he’s warbling a happy tune to HUAC. But it was business, not personal, as the Corleones would say.) I suppose I should note that my endorsement of Titanic is not unqualified. This thread reminded me of one particularly choice absurdity that occurs near the end. Kate and Leo are clinging to the stern of the ship, which is bobbling briefly in the water prior to plunging to the depths. As people all around them plummet screaming to their deaths, Kate notes for the record, “Jack, this is where we first met.” Girls.

Thank you for sharing the good news, and best wishes for further success in the future!

As it happens, Turner Classic Movies is having a Garbo festival this month and showing her films on Tuesdays. They’re also running a documentary that is an excellent introduction to the woman and her career. I hesitate to recommend Camille to start with. Conventional wisdom has it that Camille is her best performance, and conventional wisdom is right on the money in this instance. So it would be nice to “build” to Camille. On the other hand, it is a classic love story and also her best picture. (It should be noted that “Garbo’s best picture” isn’t saying much, as accolades go. Her classic movies are classics because she’s in them, for the most part. ) I’d start with Queen Christina or Anna Karenina, both of which are good movies in which she is very near her best. Then Camille, and after that Ninotchka. Although GG has some fine scenes in Grand Hotel, it’s more of an ensemble picture, the supreme example of the MGM All Star Extravaganza, Including At Least Two Barrymores. I’m partial to Susan Lenox: Her Fall and Rise” if only because Garbo and Clark Gable are such a very unexpected pairing. If you’ve gotten that far, you’re probably a hopeless addict, and then it’s time to move on to the silent era........ klingsor, I just love Leave Her to Heaven. I must dissent, respectfully, regarding Before Sunrise and Before Sunset. The poor man’s Eric Rohmer, IMO.

richard53dog, I thank you for chiming in, but I'm afraid you have me truly flummoxed with the choice of "Suspicion." ("A new wife discovers that her husband is a thief, a liar, and begins to suspect that he has killed his best friend and may plan to kill her, but it turns out she's wrong, at least about the last bit.") I'm sorry, I just can't see that as romantic, even if the sociopath hubby is Cary Grant. Noting also that in the original novel, "Before the Fact," the heroine actually does wind up dead..... Not to pick on you, but I have a wee bit of a problem with the admittedly very entertaining "Notorious," the sexual politics of which are a little unpleasant. Once again we are presented with a not-so-nice Cary Grant, who feels free to treat Ingrid Bergman like dirt because she has not Lived A Clean Life. I realize that times were different then, but I still felt like slapping him.

Mme. Hermine writes: I think that's about right. I always wanted to try out the line (rendered from memory in my crude English) Arletty says to Brasseur, regarding her unlocked door: "What do I have that thieves can steal?" "Love Affair" is correct, atm711. I like it also -- less bloated and heavy handed than the Grant/Kerr version, IMO. (As for Beatty-Bening's remake -- let's not even speak of it. ) klingsor, "Dark Victory" is terrific. It may be Davis' best performance, too, difficult as it is to choose.

Estelle writes: Peter Ibbetson (Henry Hathaway, 1935)- though I prefer the book... That’s a lovely one. I also forgot to add an oldie called “One Way Passage.” Kay Francis has a terminal disease and William Powell is headed for the electric chair, and they meet aboard a ship. Estelle's mention of French titles reminded me of another oldie with Gerard Philipe and Michele Morgan called Les Grands Manoeuvres. He's a dashing officer, he courts her on a bet and really falls in love, she finds out about the bet, etc...... canbelto writes: I'm glad people have mentioned Titanic, because, dammit, I start crying when Leo is in the icy waters, telling Kate to "never let go ..." The tears trickle ... Another part that got me was the scene where she follows him out to the deck and says softly, “I’ve changed my mind, Jack.” I am such a sucker.

Great topic, canbelto, thanks for getting it underway. These are mostly off the top of my head, and I tried to limit my list to pictures that I think are part of the romantic genre – movies that I think are examples of “romantic” filmmaking.. (I too love It Happened One Night and Smiles of a Summer Night, but although they both have strong romantic elements, I wouldn’t classify them as romances per se IHON is screwball comedy, SOASN is a sex comedy roundelay like La Ronde. But we can be flexible. ) Children of Paradise. Best ever. No contest. Gone with the Wind That Hamilton Woman. Vivien Leigh made several candidates for this category. I’d also add Waterloo Bridge, although I’m not as crazy about it as some people are. (I include THW for one of my favorite scenes in all of movie history. Briefly, Lady Hamilton and Nelson, who haven't yet begun their affair, visit a tavern. Several officers make nasty jokes about Lady H. Nelson reveals himself, and as Olivier escorts Leigh out, he says something like, "You must excuse them. They do not realize that friendship can exist between a man and a woman." Leigh, looking her most delectable, says, "Do you?" Olivier doesn't respond, but it's clear from his expression that his conception of their "friendship" is undergoing a rapid reevaluation.) Letter from an Unknown Woman Umbrellas of Cherbourg – I can’t bear the last scene, either. I remember when I first saw the movie, and those guys are singing in the garage, and I thought to myself, I’m outta here. But shortly afterward I was hooked. Jules and Jim Taking a deep breath: DiCaprio and Winslet in Titanic. Yes,yes, I know. I don’t care. It works.

Nice to hear from you, Ed. "Crossing Delancey" is a cute movie -- maybe a little too cute. As I watched, however, I couldn’t help reflecting that the lady who chooses the pickle guy was played by the former Mrs. Steven Spielberg, recipient of what was then and maybe still is the biggest settlement in history, and would Isabelle be able to afford all those cute little ensembles she wears with Pickle Man’s income.....

After a nice long leisurely search, the Los Angeles Times gets around to hiring a chief drama critic. Nikke Finke describes the ordeal. (“Message to Los Angeles theatre performers and fans: We care.”) The LA Times Drama Critic Drama

Well...... I don’t know about the “long last” part. Maria Tallchief was seventy or seventy-one. I can think of others even older who waited a long, long time. Farrell seems well ahead of schedule. And Julie Harris is about the age Tallchief is now, I think.

The audiences in my area are pretty well behaved, and I've rarely experienced too much talking. The comments I do hear can even be enlightening in a way -- I remember a couple behind us on one occasion who were completely flummoxed by the nonlinear storytelling of Pulp Fiction, and it was pretty funny to hear. ("Isn't he dead?" etc.) I can think of many reasons to criticize the theatres, but a night out at the movies is still one of the least expensive entertainment options available for those who want to get out of the house. (The concessions are pricey but concessions are pricey everywhere, and that's how they make their money -- if the theatres relied on ticket sales alone, they'd be out of business in no time. However, ticket prices have not gone above ten dollars around here.) I would actually be willing to pay more for a civilized experience at the multiplex, if such could be guaranteed......

GWTW, I was actually referring back to Helene's observation earlier in the thread that Murphy is dressed and made up in order to seem less appealing. It is too bad about Silverstone.

Paul writes: Very true. You’d want her approval. Even as Darcy condescends to her, he wants her approval. I agree, Old Fashioned. I guess because P&P is a reliable, familiar choice. The Garson/Olivier version is not perfect but it’s awfully good. (And Olivier is perfect. So often these days Darcy is played like a sort of Heathcliff, and he’s not.) I don’t get the whole Keira Knightley fuss, myself. She’s a skinny kid who looks like a taller Winona Ryder with a Jennifer Garnerish jaw, and when she smiles broadly she displays long white fangs that are terrifying even by contemporary bigtoothed starlet standards. Not much of an actress, either, even for her age. Maybe she’ll improve as she matures. GWTWwrites: I didn’t see it, GWTW, but you're right about the role swap. I think that’s the looks issue cropping up again. Beckinsale would have been better known, and she’s more conventional leading lady looks. Speaking of leading lady looks, that may be what I was trying to get at, Paul. I didn't mean that Emma is unattractive in comparision to Harriet, but that in the film adaptations it's always clear that Emma is the Leading Lady and the actress cast as Harriet, even when she's pretty as Brittany Murphy is, can't outshine the star lookswise. And that's not quite right, IMO.