Alexandra

Just in case others see my post about Serenade out of context -- or the comments by Leigh or Grace -- I hasten to say that I was using that as an example of the way a ballet with an all-male cast, where the men partner each other, or relate to each other physically, is interpreted by an audience differs from the way an all-female ballet is perceived. It was not a performance suggestion, nor a new analysis! Grace, I got out "A Ballet Called Swan Lake" but couldn't find that passage -- I'd forgoten how detailed that book is. I did notice that he sometimes says, "I think" when describing the ballerina's facial expression, but the comments on choreography are more this is what is done here, that is what is done there. I can't remember -- it's something I read 25 years ago and filed in my "Swan Lake" file. But he did discuss this with so many dancers and balletmasters of the time, so even an opinion is more than a critical comment. I think. Back to Paul's original question -- and picking up an earlier response by Leigh that talked about models for male-male duets being taken from contact improv -- what classical models are there? Is it possible to do this in classical ballet? If so, how?

We live in troubled times.

I hope Leigh will post on this -- we were just discussing it -- but it's my understanding that Balanchine made the comment about right versus left sides of the body to a meeting of teachers, discussing pedagogy, not about choreography, which is how the remark seems to be taken in the quote posted above. I'd also question, no matter who said it, the idea of upper vs lower body in the 19th century. It's often said about Bournonville, but if you watch Bournonville dancers, the upper body is not still -- as is sometimes written in American and English criticism. The upper body moves, and it moves in counterpoint to the legs but IN HARMONY, not in contrast. And the classical line as we know it that's descended through Petipa is all about counterpoint of upper to lower body as well as right and left. It's a continuous flow of line, not divided in any way. (Of course, there are divisions -- like Vaganova's Seven Stories -- but again, that's a teaching thing, a private way for a dancer to imagine the alignment of the body, and it varies from school to school, but it's not a performance or choreographic issue.) I think this is an example of someone reading something and not examining the context (not Paul, of course, but the review).

I think there could be a lot of quibbles about the division of the body statements. How are we judging Petipa and his cut and slice legs? From today's performances? The whole body was used earlier in this century, at least. And which Apollo? The original or the one shown last season? And why would we want to pit the left side of the body against the right? Sorry, but I think this sounds like a lot of words.

Yes, I know that the ballets were willed to different people -- many of whom have since died -- but I meant guarded in the sense of having a central person, or group of people, who would have the power to say, "It's wonderful that you'd like to dance Symphonic, but we don't think that group of people is appropriate" or "We insist that live music be used, not a recording." Until (assuming the plans go through) there is a Trust, I supose the decision of what company gets to do what is up to the discretion of the stager. The photograph that I remember in particular was very athletic. I don't think one would look at it and think "My, that's one of the men in Ashton's 'Symphonic Variations.'" Don Q pas de deux in an odd costume, perhaps, but not 'Symphonic Variations.'"

Grace, I should have put up a note at the top of Alymer's post -- I moved it from another thread, where it made perfect sense in context, but I thought it might spark a discussion on its own. It was apropos of divisions between contemporary dance, or contemporary ballet, and classical ballet, and I thought Alymer's story of bejart (whom some consider classical and some consider not classical) wanting to do Symphonic and Ashton even considering it was interesting -- it goes against the stereotypes. I pulled it out, too, because we've discussed the basics of this topic so much here that the "other angle" might entice those who are bored with, or wary, of that discusison. I don't know how the Ashton ballets are guarded. They don't have anything like the Balanchine Trust, which does make judgments on whether or not a company is able to dance a particular ballet (I've heard they're working on it, but they don't have it yet). I was also startled when I heard that Kumakaya was doing this, and more startled when I saw the photos (in Dance Now)

It's not romantic, but it's not our idea of male-male dancing in 1804, either. This is James Harvey d'Egville as Ulysses and Andre Jean-Jacques Deshayes as Achilles disguised as a handmaiden of the Princess Deidamia. (King's Theatre, London).

Exactly!

Estelle, I know that Guerin and Platel were trained at the Conservatoire, but they were POB etoiles, and, as you note, have POB training, with POB teachers. The argument has been (in this thread and many others) that there's something in the POB that stomps out creativity and produces no ballerinas, and I don't think that's true. When you get to company level, it's up to the ballet masters -- who can correct a lot of flaws in the schooling, too. I think the point about the school being at Nanterre causing problems may be apt as well. The same comments were made when the Royal Ballet School moved away from the theater. When the school and the company are in the same building they're closer in every way. The Danes would say how much they got just passing this or that dancer in the hall -- I don't think that's fanciful. That's part of role modeling that you need -- watching how people carry themselves, how they walk when they're off stage -- and you can't just get in the classroom. It's another reason to have some of the teachers being pedagogues, but some of them being first-rank dancers, too.

There hasn't been a Ulanova anywhere on earth for the past five decades, but I'd put up Guerin and Platel against anyone else Generalizations are dangerous. I think. There's a lack of creativity -- or pockets of it -- in every company. And one could argue exactly how creative should a corps de ballet be? In a large company, we don't often see corps dancers dancing outside their straight lines; it doesn't mean they can't. I dont mean to minimize the current Etoile problem at POB, but I don't think the problem is in the training. The problem is that there is no one with Nureyev's Eyes -- someone who can pick out, by instinct and artistry, in one afternoon, after seeing one class, the next 12 etolies, the people who carried the company for nearly two decades. You, you, you, you -- and not just the obvious ones, the ones who had been on the fast track, but the ones whom others have overlooked. But there isn't anyone like that anywhere today. Or, correction. There undoubtedly are. But they have not found their way into the corridors of power.

Leigh, if I'm remembering correctly, the comments on Swan Lake choreography are in Beaumont's "A Ballet Called Swan Lake." I'll try to check it later this evening. I think your comments on male-male choreography and ballet are quite apt, and it's one of the problems. Because there isn't a ballet model, people turn to the models that exist, i.e., contact improv or modern dance, which turns away from ballet. There were once models of male-male choreography, though. There are quite a few drawings in Miriam Hannah Winter's "The Pre-Romantic Ballet." I should have time to scan some and put them up on the site and linlk to them. She used one for the cover, and since it's a heavier, older, bearded man lifting a young, slim man, and they're both in "dresses" (i.e., classical dress), for years I thought it was a man and a woman -- I didn't look at it closely. We gained a lot in the 19th century, but we lost some things as well Back to women meeting in the moonlight -- that was an image that frightened good, Churchgoing men for centuries, because it harked back to pagan times, when women had the power to keep men out of their meetings. Which may have been about quilt patterns and child rearing, but were thought of as gatherings of witches. Lots of things to think about in Serenade But all this gets away from Paul's question -- which I'm very glad he raised. I would hope that someone would break away from the improv and modern dance models and look to classicism. Ashton did -- the danced conversation between Elgar and his friend in "Enigma Variations." The relationship among the men in "A Month in the Country." Not a gay love story, to be sure, but ways to depict men on stage beyond King or porteur -- or male soloist. (I think Ashton is woefully underestimated as an innovator in ballet narrative. He made it look so natural, people never realized that every story ballet he did was filled with new ways of telling a story and depicting character. The Tutor in "Month" is characterized completely in movement. So were the men in his "Romeo and Juliet."

James. The old version, where James didn't die but fell unconscious at the end. He'd have to wake up sometime. He couldn't go home. They Sylphs would never show themselves to him again, but he'd have to live in the forest.....hmmm. James at 45....

Well, you've been brought up in a place and time that puts 100% of the value on abstraction, Leigh Petipa had a different language, and apparently, that dip was meant to be read as a kiss and would have been by his audience. It was an abstraction for a kiss. I don't know whether the fluttering beats as a metaphor for the heart trembling is a formal symbol, like the dip, or a near-realistic metaphor that we all can "read." One could say the same thing about the mime speeches/gestures that indicate someone was a King. "I don't need to know what they mean. I know he's a King." But to the choreographer, I think the details matter. (And I think most choreographers would want at least some people who view their work to understand what they put into it.)

Did anyone see this last night? It was on 48 Hours, or Dateline, or one of those shows. I missed it. A friend called me, but by the time I turned it on, the dancing part was over, but: Christopher Walken was interviewed by Charlie Rose. He began as a dancer -- his wife was a dancer. They met in a show. Apparently he did a music video recently. The report I got was that the clip of him dancing years ago showed him as rather stiff, but with whiplash turns. Any comments? (And now, cast Christopher Walken in your favorite ballet rep. As I said, I only caught the end of it, but he seemed rather wistful that he'd been typecast as a villain, and eager to show his other side(s).)

Mashinka, now I remember the girls in grey -- I doubt my version was censored. I think it was that the girls in grey came on, counting, and did the steps, but nothing else (I didn't see the Royal, alas. But I remember the photos!) It's interesting that both Jeux and Les Biches used two women as an injoke/metaphor for two men. Is that because two women dancing together strike most people as asexual? (I certainly never think of Serenade as a Lesbian gang meeting.)

Most of my great moments are inextricably linked too the dancer who performed them. But in general, I think my two favorite endings are from "The Four Temperaments," when the soloists (men lifting the women) run through the corps. And the women aren't in a pose; they're moving. It reminds me of what one reads about turn of the century Russian productions of Swan Lake, where the soldiers, under the stage "waves" and Siegfried drowned in them (Nureyev tried to do this, without the soldiers). The corps are the "waves" and the dancers would drown, but for those lifts. It's a metaphor for the triumph of those human temperaments. The second one is the ending of "Symphonic Variations," which they didn't do well when the company was here, but one has an imagination and thank god for video SV looks easy but it isn't; it's a grueling test of stamina, and at the end, the music turns suddenly happy -- and you realize that, even though there hasn't been any melancholy about the piece, but now, suddenly, it's happy. And the soloists ride that happiness, rise to it -- another triumph of the human spirit. Both of these ballets were made shortly after World War II's ending, and I don't think that's a coincidence.

Just posting to bump this up -- it's an interesting topic that some of you may have missed the first time.

The leading character in Les Biches is sexually ambiguous -- La Garconne. But, as I remember it, it's a characterization (neither happy nor sad) and done through costume and glance more than movement. I never thought La Garconne and The Hostess were a couple -- but I saw the ballet during my more naive youth Back to metaphor, the problem is you have to be a really good choreographer to do it -- both Balanchine and Ashton could and did, but who else since Petipa and Bournonville (one of the sexiest pas de deux in ballet is the violin duet in Kermesse, where the boy, who's been watching the girls from the window, comes in and plays his viola to make them dance. It's an absolute metaphor for adolescent sexuality, and power of sexuality -- I can make you do anything, and you'll love it!. And yet it's very beautiful and not the least graphic. Often an audience won't understand metaphor -- I certainly didn't know that dip in White Swan "meant" "kiss" before reading Beaumont. I FELT the meaning, but didn't know the words -- like watching a foreign film. You think you know what they're saying until you check the subtitles. Some viewers will sense it, others won't, and get bored, and say, "why don't they kiss? Aren't they supposed to be in love?" One gay relationship done through metaphor -- though certainly not a happy one -- is that of Petrushka and The Charlatan (Nijinsky and Diaghilev). That's objective art dressed up as a folk tale, but since we see the costumes/scenery/story first and may lose patience with them if they're not to our taste, or don't seem "modern" enough, we never get through to the seventh layer, to what anything really "means."

Do you know what I think the cliche problem is really about? It's a realism problem. We've gotten away from objective art. It's either bloodlessly abstract -- kick turn toss heave -- or roll around on the floor as realistically as possible. The idea of metaphor -- that the dip in the White Swan pas de deux meant "kiss" (as Cyril W. Beaumont wrote) which meant that Odette and Siegfried didn't have to kiss -- it was already in the choreography. That's all gone. Maybe that is the road out of Kansas. Turn away from realism (which would encourage people to turn away from violence and anger as well).

I agree with you on the emotional blackmail. The same summer as all those AIDS dances (and of course, this is NOT to in any way minimize the pain of losing anyone to that, or any other, illness) all the women were doing "When I was 8" -- slap side of head three times with open palm -- "I was raped" -- turn three times, glower at audience -- "by my FAH ther" [Our dancers talk. It's a DC thing.] Not to minimize that, either, but is everyone really suffering from trauma? Or has it become a pose? To take Paul's wish -- "it would be great if they seemed to be representative people recognizably in love and not necessarily doomed...." -- and Leigh's comment that male-male duets are hell to choreograph because of the Cliche Trap -- isn't that a problem with all duets now? I read about 18th century ballets about war and jealousy and power and there's not a love pas de deux in the whole three hours. Now we can't make a ballet without them, and the whole thing is built on a wispy little woman in a nightie being flung around by a sweating, heaving man and they don't get to live happily ever after in Scarsdale, or anywhere else, either). It would be nice to think that the 21st century had some happiness in it that would be expressed in fiction, and film, and dance, but with what's going on in pop culture, it's doubtful. But then, geniuses always smash trends -- so live in hope.

Steve and Next Stage, thank you VERY MUCH for posting Next Stage, I admired Alexandrova very much here -- the same roles you saw, plus Spanish in "Swan Lake." And I admired her two years ago in "Don Quixote." And she blew the roof off the Opera House in 2000 and in 2002. Why she's a soloist is one of the great mysteries of life. I had exactly the same impression of Tsiskaridze as well. (We didn't get Filin, nor Stepanova this time, although both here were in DC in 2000.) Steve, I loved your "Bye Bye Birdie" line. Steve and Next in the same week Gosh! Must be livin' right

There are teases -- but I don't think any real, open honest ones in ballet. (There are LOTS in modern. I can't count how many "my partner died of AIDS" dances, I've seen, some of them very moving--and interesting.) There are a lot of male-male pas de deux by Bejart, and some of them are very sensual (at least from a woman's point of view -- I'm thinking of "Songs of a Wayfarer.") But they're not openly romantic, at least not the ones I've seen. Arlene Croce wrote a piece about Smuin's "Romeo and Juliet" which I only remember vaguely, but I do remember that she wrote that one of the reasons she thought that R&J was so popular was because of "all those boys." But it's still hidden sensualitiy/sexualiity. A story, which I think Paul will appreciate. One summer I happened to see five "my partner died of AIDS" dances in a row, one each week. And the night editor at the Post that I drew every week was a really nice guy, but he didn't have a clue. Male-male duets were not part of his world. He didn't mind them. He just didn't expect them. So he'd read the copy and he'd say. "Wait a minute. You say 'then Harry and Bob dance; it could be a love duet, it could be a" -- whatever. brother/brother, caregiver/patient, whatever. "Yes," I'd say. "But Harry and Bob are both men's names -- OH!"

Well, knowing what to do, even recognizing it in others, is a far cry from doing it oneself -- not to mention that there may well be a director saying, "Good grief, stop being subtle. This is a COMEDY. We hired you because Joe told us you were an outrageous ham," etc etc.

I'm not much for taking bits of this and bits of that, ronny -- nothing wrong with it, just not my cup of tea. I also can't think of a great choreographer who set out to educate. One of the things I learned in a film class I took in college was, "don't set out to make a movie to end war, and never set out to make The Great Movie About War. If you do you won't make art. Make a story about one person, or a group of people, caught up in a war, and maybe you'll get lucky and it will turn out to be great." So that's my take on that one I do not write that to discourage dreams -- dream on Other dream ballets? What do you want to see when you go to the ballet. We can approach it from that angle -- what NEW work do you want to see?

A Midsummer Night's Dream has lots of fairies. There's one version by George Balanchine, still in repertory at the New York City Ballet, and another by Frederick Ashton, in the repertories of both American Ballet Theatre and the Royal Ballet. Sleeping Beauty has six (sometimes 7) fairies in its Prologue and the Lilac Fairy has a big role throughout. This sounds like a terrific project! There were a lot of 19th century ballets with fairies in them -- different kind of fairy life, like La Sylphide (sylphs) and Giselle (wilis), and various naiads and dryads. I don't want to name them all -- others will have their favorite fairies