su-lian

Treefrog, that is a very good question. I have been wondering myself for quite a while. You probably don't need advice by a teenager, who most certainly doesn't know as much as you, but I have a history teacher (yes, sorry, we're back on teachers) who doesn't understand why I don't get higher marks than what I get (but it's not a catastrophy either) in history because I'm good in science. She says it's exactly the same principle: why does this happen? how does it happen?...but I find it much more difficult in history, I feel like answering "yes, but we don't know what goes on in their minds, so we can't tell why" and things like that, but I don't, of course. I suppose here, it is a bit the same thing (isn't history an "art" subject in english speaknig countries?), and I think that you are a bit like me. You know what you are supposed to do, but can't do it. It's even more frustrating. Back to ballet: before, I used to just watch and enjoy, without asking myself any questions, and I was mainly watching the dancers' technique (at the very beginning, nearly at the extent that I couldn't see anything else), then I started looking at 'the forest', but not seeing anything else but a forest, and I just felt as if it was pointless. So now, I try looking at 'the leaves...', but still find it difficult. When some ballet comes on TV, I watch it as many times as possible (at some point, I used to even get up at 3am to watch one!). Then, I can first look at the forest, and if something catches my eye, I try to pay more attention to it the next time to see what it was exactly that caught my eye. And each time I watch it, I try looking more and more at details, but when I've already looked enough at them, go back to enjoy what it looks like as 'a forest'. (And once you know well the choreography, and you've seen it danced by different people, you can tell if it's the choreography or the way the dancers did it that you liked or not, but that, you already know) About the why: (I haven't applied it yet, because I just thought of it, so I don't know if it would work) probably asking yourself if it reminds you of something else you know, if it corresponds to what you like in other things (eg: liveliness in Don Quichotte or romanticism in La Sylphide...) would help, but I'm really no expert in answering the "WHY" question, so I'll let others answer (and I've already written too much about nothing).

I hope you don't fell as if (and I wouldn't like you to think) I'm pushing you though...

How sad! Some of these people become, not really a legend (not in the sense in which it is usually used at least), but someone you just know is there, they seem to have been there for so long that their presence, existence is like obvious, and it does feel like there is something missing when they're not there any more.

Hi dancedevil! It's nice to see what someone else thought! I don't really have a favourite female dancer (nor a male one)! There are some I like very very much, and others very much, and I generally like most dancers (at least, the ones in Paris! but also some others, but the problem is, I don't really know so many others, the Paris Opera is the only one I have seen in real, and, although I often see documentaries or filmed ballets on TV, it's not the same). For example, I like Elisabeth Platel very much for her style, although sometimes she is a bit cold; I like Guillem for her technique of course, but not always for her interpretations and style. I could go on for a long time like this, but I don't think this is the sort of thing people want to read, so I'll stop here even though I have left out some that I really like a lot!

Thanks vila! I hadn"t heard of it. I'll try to see it, but I don't know if I have the time:( !

Thanks a lot for these detailed answers! It's very interesting, but you don't seem to agree... Is it because it is related to taste (which I don't suppose so, but one never knows), or is it because someone here is confused (which I don't really think so either, but since I don't know much about épaulement, and that's why I asked the question, I can't tell) or does it have something to so with different schools of teaching and different styles (which is probably an answer)?

Thank you Estelle! It's strange that this movie isn't much known, sonce it has so many famous actors in it. I wonder why? Maybe it was really bad?

Really? I haven't heard of it! What production? Who is the dancer? The only production of Les Misérables I know is one with Depardieu and Renaud, and there isn't any dance in it (well, not that I remember).

Now it starts being really interesting! I can't wait for the next "lesson"!

Yes, after this, I thought I had got it wrong. Nathalie just comes here out of a mistake I made! I confused the two, sorry! Nathalie was at the Paris Opera Ballet school, but I don't know what she does now.

You're welcome! I hope you do keep going! Thanks again.

Thank you very much Calliope, but are you really sure it's the same, because there is quite a difference between "Nathalie Chtcherbakova " and "Ekaterina Chtchelkanova" (more than between "Nureyev" and "Noureev"). It's not even the same first name! Unless I got it wrong the first time (in the movie, because I'm sure about what's in the program), which is very possible! That must be it, I must have forgotten her first name, and thought I recognised her surname (I got all the vowels OK, and confused a few consonnants!;) ). Sorry about that, I was wrong since the beginning.

Yes, I'm "listening"! I just thought if I kept saying I understood each time it would interfer and sound repetitive, but I do follow and read each time. You're doing a great job, and everything is very clear. Thank you very much!

I suppose it's like Nureyev, it depends on which language you speak (in french it's Noureev, for example, and I've also seen it with an "i" instead of the "y", and many other ways too). The spelling I used was the one in the Paris Opera program for the Ballet School performance in 1996, and I'm pretty sure that was also the one I saw in the credits (I saw the movie in english, but since the credits were in french too...).

I don't think it's been mentionned before, but one of the girls was at the Paris Opera Ballet School a few years ago (she ended the course in 1996). It's the one who does an arabesque at the beginning (well, when she arrives in jail and six of them sing and dance one by one to present themselves, I can't remember the name of the song). It's not really surprising, but it's still funny, if you see what I mean. I wonder why she stopped ballet. Or maybe she didn't. Does any one know if she dances in the US? Her name is Nathalie Chtcherbakova.

I didn't say a dancer was necessarily bad if s/he didn't use épaulement, well at least that's not what I meant even if that might seem to be what I said. I was just trying to make a caricature of "good" and "bad "épaulement (to use expressions I have seen before, but not used since I wasn't sure of what was meant by it) to check if I had correctly understood what was sometimes meant by épaulement. It's because I read some things about dancers and it sometimes said they didn't have a good épaulement, I just wondered what they meant. Sorry if it wasn't clear.

Hi dancedevil! I saw the same since this is a franco-german (or germano-french for you maybe ;) ) chanel. I'll talk more about the film, since a lot has been said about her in the past (I'm not saying it's not interesting and I'm not saying this question shouldn't be asked, but a change could not harm any one, and I prefer to talk about the film rather than her). There was one thing that I found strange, it's that in Don Quichotte, she didn't do the "normal" Nureyev variation in the third act, she did a different one with some grand-jetés and some échappés where we normally do relevés. I wonder what Nureyev would have said, because apparently, he always insisted a lot that the choreography should not be changed the slightest bit, so imagine about doing a totally different variation! Maybe he would have found it OK, since anyway none of it was his, so she didn't really change his choreography, in the sense that she didn't change the steps of his variation, but she still changed it since she did a different one altogether! Otherwise, well, she has a great technique and wonderful feet, but everyone knows that already, and I don't think there's a real need to discuss it. I liked it when she was with Laurent Hilaire (I absolutely adore him, but he doesn't dance so much now, which makes me so sad, because I haven't seen him dance a lot, especially live, so everything I can see of him makes me happy!), and they seemed to have some good laughs. It was also quite interesting watchingher rehearse Giselle with the Finnish ballet, but I didn't find it very good. I mean I didn't like the dancer who did Giselle, and when they showed Guillem doing Giselle, I didn't find it too good either. She was much better in Don Quichotte.

Thank you very much! I knew about effacé, croisé etc, but I couldn't really figure out how the shoulders could move in different particular ways...And it still confuses me, but I suppose that's also a bit why it's been extended to the whole upper body. So this means that someone who has a "stiff" upper body and doesn't use it much has bad épaulement, and someone who uses it to express something, like slightly cambré or slightly to the side or whatever has good épaulement. Is this it, or not, or is there something more? About Paris, some people say that the dancers have a bad épaulement, but I'm not too sure about what they say (I'm thinking about one person in particular which I won't mention Alexandra ;) , because I think it's the same), and since personally, I was a bit confused by it, I couldn't have looked for it, but I think some still have (I wouldn't try to say how many or how much percentage though!), like Aurélie Dupont, for example. Su-lian.

Thank you! That's interesting about men being heavier, and now I've learnt something (as I always do).I'll be able to tell my friend also. Su-lian.

I have some idea of what it is, but how do you say if a dancer has good or bad épaulement? I thought it had more or less set rules and went with the steps, which implies with the choreography, so I don't understand how different dancers can have different épaulements. Sorry if it's been asked before, but I don't think so. Su-lian.

I had never really thought of that until the other day, a friend asked me why men don't dance on pointe. I had to admit I didn't really know why and told her some did some pointe work to strengthen their feet etc. So she asked why they don't dance on stage with them. I said that in some particular choreographies they do and said that it wasn't in the traditions for men to do pointe and more or less that history wanted it that way. Guess what she asked next..."Why isn"t it in the traditions? Why didn't they start pointe at the same time as women?" Until then, I thought I hadn't done too bad, considering I didn't know anything about it and had never thought of it like that, but there, I was really stuck. Besides this tradition point, what would you say are the reasons for men not doing pointe (performing with them)? Su-lian.

Thanks for pointing it out Grace, I was wondering what it stood for...and would never have guessed!

I have seen blonde Kitris (Letestu, and Dupont who isn't blonde but doesn't have very dark hair...) before so why not?

There is no real difference in pronounciation between "porté" and "portée", maybe just a slight difference in the accentuation of the syllables but it is not really noticeable (I'm not even sure whether most people make a difference). However, the articles change so this allows to see the difference, and the context too, fo course. ("porte" is pronounced differently, but I suppose you can't do the accents ;) and know the difference). Su-lian.

But then instead of some of the pupils dancing several times (some in the three ballets), they should have organised it differently so that they could all participate. I don't have anything against them, but for example, the ones who danced several times could have been replaced in some of the ballets by others who didn't have any role. And even if the excuse is that they're not good enough for the part, I'm sure it could have been arranged by "upgrading" to a better role someone who can, so that an easier part is left to someone who didn't have any role could do something s/he could. The ones who danced in Péchés de Jeunesse and Jeu de cartes could have been replaced by others in Mouvements, especially since this ballet is not as difficult as the two others and that most of the dancers from Jeu de Cartes had already danced in Péchés de Jeunesse. This is probably more acceptable since, it is true, those two are more difficult, so they need better dancers from 1ere Division, but do they really need the 1ere division in Mouvements? Because then what the 1ere did in Mouvements could have been done by 2nde etc and everybody could have participated. Well, I suppose somewhere I must be wrong, otherwise Mrs Bessy would have thought of it and everybody would have danced.