Posted 23 July 2003 - 10:39 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Florestan is supposed to be the name of the king in Sleeping Beauty. I have no idea why the prince is sometimes named "Florimund."
Posted 23 July 2003 - 11:42 AM
Hans: You won't find the G major marche because, to my knowledge, it has never been recorded. If you want to get an idea of its deportment, listen to the Grahn variation of Pas de Quatre. [Incidental query: is her name pronounced Grah-hahn in Danish? Somebody once told me it was.] The harp you are thinking of is probably the B flat major (dominant) preparation for the pas de cheval galop (E flat) that provides Kitri with her variation in the Ouboukov recension of the pas de deux--though Mel says the Kirov offers it too on occasion. The mysterious (apparently untraced) music for this variation might postdate Beauty because, if you listen carefully to the section in F, when she begins her echappes a la seconde, you will hear an oscillating pedal beneath a stabbing melody. This is almost identical in effect and structure with the galop in G (not F, as Roland Wiley seems to imply] that accompanies Aurora's entree in Act I, and which yields, after the pedal slips down to E (the dominant preparation), to that wonderful perigourdine in A major. I still get goosebumps when I hear it, and I must have heard it thousands of times! The worst of it is that when you hear it in the theatre, the audience drowns it out with welcome clapping for the ballerina. It used to make me FUME!
PS Please forgive all the typos in my previous post. I sent it from my office via Netscape (at home I have Explorer), and it was like writing through a post box slit. I had no idea where my sentences were going.
Posted 23 July 2003 - 11:56 AM
Posted 23 July 2003 - 03:10 PM
i have always believed that florimund, (flor = flower, mund = world), means flower of the world - named to signify his desirability/beauty/etc. a suitable partner for aurora (= the dawn). rodney, mel: have i been too fanciful, or would you back this up?
rodney: i had never thought of describing my superfluous abdominal flab as "an Antonia del'Erian embonpoint in (her) figure"... i hope i have understood you? perhaps gwendoline looks like a glorious pelican in flight - we have lots of those on the west coast here, where i live. )
Posted 23 July 2003 - 03:22 PM
Posted 23 July 2003 - 07:42 PM
Posted 24 July 2003 - 02:35 AM
By the way, it's interesting to notice that in the original text of Perrault none of the characters have names (it's just "the princess", "the prince", "the good fairy", etc.- there's just the small dog of the princess called "Pouffe" (well, it wouldn't be a name to use now, as it has a derogatory meaning in French slang, as "stupid, vulgar woman" ) and also Aurora's children are called Aurore and Jour). I wonder how Petipa chose the names he used?
Posted 24 July 2003 - 04:01 AM
on her belly, and not on her chin. There's a wonderful description in Patrick White of
pelicans with heaving wickerwork wings. Your etymology of Florimund is spot-on, and
fits the ballet perfectly. I wasn't objecting to it but rather wondering where it comes from.
I definitely prefer Petipa's fairy names to Diaghilev's, however, because they supply
important iconic and choreographic clues.
Thinking about the Florestan pas de trois last night, I was suddenly struck by the idea that
if Nijinka restored the gold waltz to Act III, she would have had to exscind it from Act II.
That would have left a bleeding wound that, I feel sure, the musical Diaghilev would have
wanted to stanch. So isn't it just possible that it wasn't Ashton, but rather Nijinska, who
was the first to choreograph the Bb variation? Perhaps the fouettes Dame Ninette
remembered could have figured here--and she must surely have meant the ronds de
jambe kind and not the tap-on-the-shoulder ones that are still retained, and which have
functioned as a metaphor of unattainability ever since Silfiden. I can count 17 fouettes to
the D minor section of the variation, which at one point has little skirls that could match a
And this morning I looked at my RB tape of A's Wedding again, and feel sure that it's
Ashton's edition of the polka, not Nijinska's, that we see there. I say that because N, who
loved rotary hands and arms, would never have cut those distinctive Petipa port de bras
(one could perhaps call them mains tournantes a la mouffle) that he also uses in the female
variation in The Talisman, and which the RB replaces with speeded up bras de
benediction from Miettes qui tombent. Also, those hands brought sharply down to bras
bas but with the palms out-turned (during the entrechats toward the end) are pure Ashton.
I recall a comparable effect in Sinfonietta, where the male demi-caractere dancer does
sissonnes with similar gestures.
Posted 24 July 2003 - 10:29 AM
At the time of his marriage to Marie-Antoinette, the Dauphin, who would become Louis XIV, was known as Louis le Désiré.
I suppose it was said already but the prince in THE SLEEPING PRINCESS was simply called Prince Charming.
Posted 24 July 2003 - 11:07 AM
Actually, it seems that the name "Louis le Désiré" was used much more often for Louix XVIII, Louis XVI's younger brother and successor (I don't know the origin of the name, perhaps that was his reign came after the troubled period of the Revolution and the First Empire (actually he wasn't that popular, but probably such names were given by the court rather than the people?...)? And I wonder why Louis XVI was called "le Désiré"- perhaps his parents were looking forward to having another child, after the death of their second son just a few months before?
Also Désiré probably already existed then as a first name, and Désirée for the women (for example there was Désirée Clary, a mistress of Napoleon and later wife of Bernadotte and Queen of Sweden).
Posted 24 July 2003 - 07:46 PM
i hadn't realized this turn of phrase was a somewhat usual one for the various Louis kings.
[by the way, mel once very kindly put up a chart of keystokes to get accents - acute and grave - by using the alt key and certain number codes on the numberlocked key pad: e-acute is ALT 130.]
Posted 25 July 2003 - 01:08 AM
Posted 25 July 2003 - 02:19 AM
It isn't until the second part of the tale by Perrault that we learn that the Prince is the child of two ogres. Now, honestly, how many girls have married their sweethearts and found themselves in exactly this situation?
Posted 25 July 2003 - 06:34 AM
Well, rg, I woudn't like to sound picky, but Louis XIV (fourteen) was the king before Louis XV (and his great-grand-father), and it was Louis XVI (sixteen) who was the successor Louis XV (and his grandson, as his father Louis le Dauphin had died when he was a kid) and who got married with Marie-Antoinette
no, E, i meant the future Louis XIV, son of Louis XV, or at least that's how i read the review: FDPG, the writer, noted that the prince was called Louis le Désiré at the time of his marriage to Marie-A.
I had mentioned Louis XVIII because from what I've read the name "Le Désiré" was used quite a lot for him
and seemed to be his "official" nickname like Philippe IV "le Bel", Henri IV "le Grand", Louis XIII "le Juste", Louis XIV "le Grand", "Louis XV "le Bien-aimé", etc., while for Louis XVI it seemed to be used less often.
By the way: do the Russians use Florimond or Désiré for the Prince?
Mel, I wonder if someone ever used the end of the tale (with the Ogre mother-in-law) in a ballet. When I had heard that Mats Ek would make a "Sleeping Beauty", I thought it would be well-suited to his style, but unfortunately he didn't use it (and on the whole I found his "Beauty" far less interesting than his other full-length works...)
Posted 25 July 2003 - 06:41 AM
There is an odd error on this thread. There's a long delay before posts appear -- 15 minutes, in the case of this one -- and Estelle got an SQL error notice. I'm closing the thread so no one else loses a long post. It will reopen when the tech people have looked into this and told us it's safe.
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