Distribution of roles in the theater

[Meliss]

In 1980, there were 15 premieres in ABT, Godunov danced only in Raymondа (and also in the pas de deux from Corsair, but at first no one was going to give it to him). In 1981, there were 9 premieres, Godunov was not in any of them. In 1982, there were 8 premieres, Godunov was again given nothing. Why was it like this? Did Baryshnikov hope that Godunov would leave the theater himself? But La Fosse had a lot of premieres!

[Helene]

The only people that Artistic Directors are responsible for answering to are Board members. 

La Fosse was one of the young dancers that Baryshnikov pushed.  He later joined NYCB. 

La Fosse wrote a memoir, and all I remember from it after reading it years ago, were some vivid description of the Studio 54 culture, which was decidedly after hours.

[volcanohunter]

I can't imagine that choreographers such as Balanchine (Prodigal Son, La Sonnambula, Bourrée Fantasque, Harlequinade pas de deux), Ashton (Les Rendezvous), Tudor (Little Improvisations), Petit (Carmen), Robbins (N.Y. Export: Opus Jazz), MacMillan (The Wild Boy), Lorca Massine (Fantaisie Serieuse), Feld (Variations on 'America') or even Makarova (La Bayadère) could be dictated to regarding their casting choices.

I can't imagine Godunov dancing August Bournonville's The Guards of Amager pas de trois or the Flower Festival in Genzano pas de deux, Nijinsky's Faun (at a time when it was being danced exclusively by short dancers), much less Merce Cunningham's Duets or Paul Taylor's Airs. A lot of the repertoire on that list calls for small, fast dancers, such as Radojevic or Renvall. The "jardin animé" section of Le Corsaire is all-female.

I can understand why (tall) Martine van Hamel's preferred partner would have been (tall) Kevin McKenzie, though I don't recall exactly when they became a couple in real life.

Robert La Fosse was very versatile stylistically, one of the few convincing "jazz bunnies" I encountered among ballet dancers. I still have my copy of his memoir, and he mentions Godunov once in the context of the firing of Gelsey Kirkland and Patrick Bissell and the first performance of the "pas d'esclave" from Le Corsaire. La Fosse disagreed completely with the firing.

Edited July 3 by volcanohunter

[Meliss]

12 hours ago, volcanohunter said:

I can't imagine that choreographers such as Balanchine (Prodigal Son, La Sonnambula, Bourrée Fantasque, Harlequinade pas de deux), Ashton (Les Rendezvous), Tudor (Little Improvisations), Petit (Carmen), Robbins (N.Y. Export: Opus Jazz), MacMillan (The Wild Boy), Lorca Massine (Fantaisie Serieuse), Feld (Variations on 'America') or even Makarova (La Bayadère) could be dictated to regarding their casting choices.

I can't imagine Godunov dancing August Bournonville's The Guards of Amager pas de trois or the Flower Festival in Genzano pas de deux, Nijinsky's Faun (at a time when it was being danced exclusively by short dancers), much less Merce Cunningham's Duets or Paul Taylor's Airs. A lot of the repertoire on that list calls for small, fast dancers, such as Radojevic or Renvall. The "jardin animé" section of Le Corsaire is all-female.

I can understand why (tall) Martine van Hamel's preferred partner would have been (tall) Kevin McKenzie, though I don't recall exactly when they became a couple in real life.

Robert La Fosse was very versatile stylistically, one of the few convincing "jazz bunnies" I encountered among ballet dancers. I still have my copy of his memoir, and he mentions Godunov once in the context of the firing of Gelsey Kirkland and Patrick Bissell and the first performance of the "pas d'esclave" from Le Corsaire. La Fosse disagreed completely with the firing.

But didn't Godunov dance the Fawn afterwards? And weren't there roles for him among all these 30 ballets? And I didn't quite understand what the long list of choreographers had to do with it. They didn't work at ABT then (except for Makarova and maybe MacMillan).

Edited July 3 by Meliss

[Helene]

Choreographers, their designated stagers, or their trusts or estates often control casting decisions.

[Fraildove]

Choreographers and or their trusts have say on who is cast in their ballets regardless if they work for the company mounting the ballet. The Cranko trust, for example, just pulled two ABT Principals from dancing the leads in Onegin days before the ballet was to open. The same was true then and especially when the choreographers were still alive. Whether there were roles that he was suited for or not is irrelevant… if the choreographers, artistic director, or ballet masters did not feel he was a fit he didn’t get cast. Often times certain portions of the audience adore a dancer and think that they should dance everything when the powers that be, for whatever reason, do not agree. The dancer can then choose to stay or change companies, or go out on their own. 

[Meliss]

2 hours ago, Helene said:

Choreographers, their designated stagers, or their trusts or estates often control casting decisions.

 

2 hours ago, Fraildove said:

Choreographers and or their trusts have say on who is cast in their ballets regardless if they work for the company mounting the ballet. The Cranko trust, for example, just pulled two ABT Principals from dancing the leads in Onegin days before the ballet was to open. The same was true then and especially when the choreographers were still alive. Whether there were roles that he was suited for or not is irrelevant… if the choreographers, artistic director, or ballet masters did not feel he was a fit he didn’t get cast. Often times certain portions of the audience adore a dancer and think that they should dance everything when the powers that be, for whatever reason, do not agree. The dancer can then choose to stay or change companies, or go out on their own. 

Thank you very much. Does this apply not only to premiere performances? And the second line-up too? I wonder if Baryshnikov contacted Petit to give Godunov the role of Jose in Carmen.

[Helene]

It could apply to any performances and any casts.  It depends on the choreographer and how much clout he or she has.  For example, Kenneth Macmillan cared enough about his own career to let Royal Ballet management not only assign Fonteyn and Nureyev to opening night of his new Romeo and Juliet, but to make his cast of choice, Lynn Seymour and Christopher Gable, on whom the roles were choreographed, the fifth couple to perform.  (Due to injury, Lynn Seymour danced in an earlier cast, I think second, with another partner.)

When I read in the Bujones memoir that Macmillan, the Associate AD at ABT at the time, told him that he wasn't ready for Macmillan's own Romeo and Juliet, it was clear that Macmillan still hadn't grown a spine. 

[Meliss]

1 hour ago, Helene said:

It could apply to any performances and any casts.  It depends on the choreographer and how much clout he or she has.  For example, Kenneth Macmillan cared enough about his own career to let Royal Ballet management not only assign Fonteyn and Nureyev to opening night of his new Romeo and Juliet, but to make his cast of choice, Lynn Seymour and Christopher Gable, on whom the roles were choreographed, the fifth couple to perform.  (Due to injury, Lynn Seymour danced in an earlier cast, I think second, with another partner.)

When I read in the Bujones memoir that Macmillan, the Associate AD at ABT at the time, told him that he wasn't ready for Macmillan's own Romeo and Juliet, it was clear that Macmillan still hadn't grown a spine. 

Thank you, it's really very interesting.

[Fraildove]

I think that audiences members and fans have to be careful sometimes in assigning blame, or assuming motives when casting, hiring/firing/ or the why’s and why not’s in relationship to a singular dancer in a singular company. There are so many working parts and ballet is so incredibly subjective. What might be a star dancer to one may do nothing for someone else, so much so that they avoid their performances altogether. This happens more often than people think. Also, the inner workings of a company has so many layers. The artistic director is just one person in a very large organization. Very rarely does an AD have total and utter control of their company in regards to who dances what (Balanchine and his own ballets being one of the very few examples). 

My husband grew up in the Soviet Union and was a professional dancer as well. I have talked with him a lot about different dancers of those eras and he acknowledges that Godunov was a great dancer for his time and that he had a magnetism and stage persona that was unique. However, this was not everyone’s cup of tea. When I look back on Godunov’s videos, his technique looks of his time as does his flamboyant, old Bolshoi style. It is a very stylized way of dancing. Absolutely nothing wrong with that and for many it was exciting and unique. But the technique he performed with is more suited to the 1960’s than current day, and I think that is where you have the biggest difference between him and Baryshnikov. Baryshnikov could be a principal dancer in any company in the world currently. His technique was truly that far advanced. Godunov, while physically beautiful with long legs, height, and dynamism, would be hard pressed to be accepted into today’s current standard of technique. That isn’t to say he wasn’t a brilliant dancer. But to western audiences, and even to the more ‘pure’ element of Soviet era ballet, he was ‘a lot’. And I think that was harder for people to accept. Most audiences and critics like to be comfortable and have their own preferences. Much of which is cultural but also what we are seasoned to expect. I think Godunov broke that mold in many ways and might have been why he had a harder time finding his footing at ABT. 

[Helene]

13 minutes ago, Fraildove said:

Baryshnikov could be a principal dancer in any company in the world currently. His technique was truly that far advanced.

It's hard to imagine what anyone could do to surpass his technique.  Dancers still aspire to his technique, and he is still the gold standard. 

His dancing wasn't everyone's cup of tea, either.  His dancing itself didn't speak to everyone, and there are people who do not accept it when short men are cast as Siegfried, Albrecht, Solor, etc., regardless of the quality of the dancing. 

[Fraildove]

Absolutely. There are some roles, knowing just how phenomenal his technique was, that I would have a hard time imagining him in, just as I would have a hard time imagining Godunov, or Peter Martins, or today someone like Jacobo Tisi or on the flip side, Daniil Simkin in. Height and bearing do affect interpretation. And while I have seen many extraordinary Odette/Odile’s danced by shorter ballerinas, there is something automatic when danced by a brilliant, lanky and tallish one. Same with the men. If I had to choose seeing Baryshnikov in Don Quixote or Siegfried, there is no choice which role I would pick. Not that he couldn’t be great in the more ‘princely’ roles. Same as seeing Gidunov as Franz in Coppelia or as Jean de Brien in Raymonda… 

 

however, if I could go back in time I think I would have watched Gelsey Kirkland and Ekaterina Maximiva in absolutely anything. Same with Sizova and Soloviev!

[Drew]

1 hour ago, Fraildove said:

 

 

however, if I could go back in time I think I would have watched Gelsey Kirkland and Ekaterina Maximiva in absolutely anything. Same with Sizova and Soloviev!

Yes, yes, yes, and yes!

I admit to a similar weakness for one or two others, but not many....

Edited July 3 by Drew

[Meliss]

20 hours ago, Fraildove said:

But the technique he performed with is more suited to the 1960’s than current day, and I think that is where you have the biggest difference between him and Baryshnikov. Baryshnikov could be a principal dancer in any company in the world currently. His technique was truly that far advanced. Godunov, while physically beautiful with long legs, height, and dynamism, would be hard pressed to be accepted into today’s current standard of technique.

Can you please explain this? Our modern principal dancers of the Bolshoi Ballet - for example, Denis Rodkin - still consider Godunov to be the ideal dancer. What elements do you think Godunov did not do well enough according to  today’s current standard of technique?

[Meliss]

20 hours ago, Helene said:

It's hard to imagine what anyone could do to surpass his technique.  Dancers still aspire to his technique, and he is still the gold standard. 

 

Bujones didn't think so. And he was not alone.

20 hours ago, Helene said:

 

His dancing wasn't everyone's cup of tea, either.  His dancing itself didn't speak to everyone, and there are people who do not accept it when short men are cast as Siegfried, Albrecht, Solor, etc., regardless of the quality of the dancing. 

I honestly don't understand why a short dancer would dance Apollo or Prince. Ballet requires not only technique and inspiration, but also scenic beauty. 

[Meliss]

20 hours ago, Fraildove said:

Not that he couldn’t be great in the more ‘princely’ roles. Same as seeing Godunov as Franz in Coppelia or as Jean de Brien in Raymonda… 

I'm afraid I didn't quite understand. Could Baryshnikov be the same Jean de Brien as Godunov? No, never!