Favorite Odile variation + Act III pas de deux

[Ray Boucher]

Hello fellow ballet goers/ballet enthusiasts! I have had a question on my mind regarding "Swan Lake."

Many productions of "Swan Lake" commonly use what's known as the "Black Swan" pas de deux for Act III, the music of which was originally in Act I in the old 1877 version except for Odile's traditional solo ("L'espiègle"), which was interpolated and orchestrated by Riccardo Drigo from Tchaikovsky's Eighteen Pieces for Piano, Op. 72. However there are a few versions of Swan Lake that have different music (sometimes the adagio and/or 1st variation from the pas de deux that Tchaikovsky interpolated into the original). One notable difference is that Odile dances a different solo to the 5th variation (moderato ~ allegro semplice) of the pas de six cut from most versions of Act III.

Personally I like the traditional black swan pas de deux, though I do prefer it when choreographers use the 5th pas de six variation music for Odile's solo rather than the interpolation by R. Drigo; the former sounds more enigmatic and dark which I think fits Odile better from a story perspective. Between the different Odile solos and overall pas de deux(es), which one(s) is/are your favorite and why?

[vipa]

On 3/2/2023 at 7:47 PM, Ray Boucher said:

Hello fellow ballet goers/ballet enthusiasts! I have had a question on my mind regarding "Swan Lake."

Many productions of "Swan Lake" commonly use what's known as the "Black Swan" pas de deux for Act III, the music of which was originally in Act I in the old 1877 version except for Odile's traditional solo ("L'espiègle"), which was interpolated and orchestrated by Riccardo Drigo from Tchaikovsky's Eighteen Pieces for Piano, Op. 72. However there are a few versions of Swan Lake that have different music (sometimes the adagio and/or 1st variation from the pas de deux that Tchaikovsky interpolated into the original). One notable difference is that Odile dances a different solo to the 5th variation (moderato ~ allegro semplice) of the pas de six cut from most versions of Act III.

Personally I like the traditional black swan pas de deux, though I do prefer it when choreographers use the 5th pas de six variation music for Odile's solo rather than the interpolation by R. Drigo; the former sounds more enigmatic and dark which I think fits Odile better from a story perspective. Between the different Odile solos and overall pas de deux(es), which one(s) is/are your favorite and why?

Sorry I'm a bit confused by your question. You are way more knowledgable than I. I am familiar with the Odile variation done by most dancers, and find it problematic. I've seen the alternative choreography to different music. Then I came across this video of Fonteyn doing choreography I've never seen before. I wonder where she got it. Is it still done? I find it interesting. Is anyone familiar with it? 

 

 

[volcanohunter]

This is from Nureyev's Vienna production, which differs from his later Paris production. It is still performed by the Vienna State Ballet.

Burmeister, Bruhn and Grigorovich used the same music for their Odile variations.

[Ray Boucher]

On 3/26/2023 at 1:26 AM, volcanohunter said:

This is from Nureyev's Vienna production, which differs from his later Paris production. It is still performed by the Vienna State Ballet.

Burmeister, Bruhn and Grigorovich used the same music for their Odile variations.

Correct. It also seems like some productions that use the darker 'oboe' music vary in choreography a bit - Grigirovich's choreography is different from Burmeister's, for example. However I still see other Russian-inspired versions (for example, Vladimir Troschenko's version for the Moscow Ballet {see 26:08-27:30 for the solo} and Nadezhda Kalinina's version for Russian Ballet Theatre) that use Grigorovich's choreography to the oboe piece. Honestly I think the darker piece communicates both a subtle similarity (with the use of the oboe like in the main "Swan Lake" theme) and a clear difference between Odette and Odile, even though they're often interpreted to be different characters.

I got to say though, Grigorovich's "Odile" solo choreography (with the turns and balance steps at the beginning) kind of feels like the ballerina's way of prepping for the 32 fouettés.

Edited April 6, 2023 by Ray Boucher
Clarified a statement regarding the darker Odile solo piece (pas de six - variation 5 from Act III).

[vipa]

6 hours ago, Ray Boucher said:

Correct. It also seems like some productions that use the darker 'oboe' music vary in choreography a bit - Grigirovich's choreography is different from Burmeister's, for example. However I still see other Russian-inspired versions (for example, Vladimir Troschenko's version for the Moscow Ballet {see 26:08-27:30 for the solo} and Nadezhda Kalinina's version for Russian Ballet Theatre) that use Grigorovich's choreography to the oboe piece. Honestly I think the darker music communicates a subtle similarity between Odette and Odile, even though they're often interpreted to be different characters.

I got to say though, Grigorovich's "Odile" solo (with the turns and balance steps at the beginning) kind of feels like the ballerina's way of prepping for the 32 fouettés.

Thank you knowledgable people. I've been curious about this because I've never cared for the Odile variation, that I'm used to seeing in American companies. It's rare to see a dancer truly pull off that opening step, and other parts of the choreography seem labored. Seeing the alternative versions/music made me wonder why more companies don't adopt it. I was told that Susan Jaffe did at ABT. I don't know if that's true. I know Skylar Brandt posted a video of herself doing it for a guesting gig. 

[volcanohunter]

The music for Petipa's Odile variation is really, really boring.

[Ray Boucher]

1 hour ago, vipa said:

Thank you knowledgable people. I've been curious about this because I've never cared for the Odile variation, that I'm used to seeing in American companies. It's rare to see a dancer truly pull off that opening step, and other parts of the choreography seem labored. Seeing the alternative versions/music made me wonder why more companies don't adopt it. I was told that Susan Jaffe did at ABT. I don't know if that's true. I know Skylar Brandt posted a video of herself doing it for a guesting gig. 

That's interesting to hear.

As far as I know, a lot of other European versions still use Riccardo Drigo's interpolated piece from the Petipa version, aside from (again) Nureyev's Vienna production which I hope to get on DVD or Blu-Ray someday to watch (more specifically the newer staging).

Edited March 27, 2023 by Ray Boucher

[Ray Boucher]

1 hour ago, volcanohunter said:

The music for Petipa's Odile variation is really, really boring.

I understand where you're getting at; personally I think the Petipa music and choreography are fine on their own, but the former more like a song you would hear for a kinder, less malevolent character (hence why I prefer the alternative music in the Grigirovich, Bourmeister, and 'Vienna' Nureyev versions). To be honest, the tone of the Petipa "Odile variation" music fits more in the context of one of the four (sometimes five) brides Siegfried would be expected to marry, if it was used in a sort of 'pas de quatre/pas de cinq' for the Brides in the ballroom act.

[volcanohunter]

I'm fairly certain that no current production gives Odile the female variation we know from Tschaikovsky Pas de Deux. It's a nice piece of music, but it would be altogether too cheerful.

[Helene]

Is this based on a relatively modern interpretation that Odile is supposed to ooze badness a la Cruella de Vil?  I know Siegfried is under pressure, -- public pressure -- to marry, with his amygdala racing and that he sees what he wants to see, but she is, plotwise, trying to assure him that she is Odette.  Softer music could work to that effect.

[volcanohunter]

To be honest, the only production that works for me in this regard is Neumeier's. The fiancée of the king (Ludwig II) witnesses his strange fixation with "Odette" during a private performance of Swan Lake and decides to come to a masquerade ball dressed as a white swan. (He's temporarily thrilled, because he believes she truly understands him.)

Otherwise I'm inclined to think that the bombastic music for Odile's entrance and the adage Petipa decided to repurpose rather negate a subtle approach.

Edited March 27, 2023 by volcanohunter

[Ray Boucher]

That's true, almost forgot about that. I kind of agree, the Petipa "Odile" variation does work the best in Neumeier's version. I do like the rest of Petipa's selections for the sequence, but I wouldn't mind seeing the alternative pas de deux music get a little more love/usage in some other productions.

[sofiabn]

15 hours ago, Ray Boucher said:

To be honest, the tone of the Petipa "Odile variation" music fits more in the context of one of the four (sometimes five) brides Siegfried would be expected to marry, if it was used in a sort of 'pas de quatre/pas de cinq' for the Brides in the ballroom act.

There was a version at Teatro Colon with Cojocaru and Bocca (2007), where Odile arrives just before the 5 brides start dancing and dances with them as a sixth bride!

 

[Ray Boucher]

On 3/26/2023 at 11:41 PM, volcanohunter said:

I'm fairly certain that no current production gives Odile the female variation we know from Tschaikovsky Pas de Deux. It's a nice piece of music, but it would be altogether too cheerful.

Agreed.

[Ray Boucher]

On 3/27/2023 at 12:27 AM, Helene said:

Is this based on a relatively modern interpretation that Odile is supposed to ooze badness a la Cruella de Vil?  I know Siegfried is under pressure, -- public pressure -- to marry, with his amygdala racing and that he sees what he wants to see, but she is, plotwise, trying to assure him that she is Odette.  Softer music could work to that effect.

As far I know, the earliest I've seen the darker music used is with Vladimir Bourmeiester's version which first premiered in 1953; I guess this decision inspired Nureyev's Vienna staging and Grigorovich's version which both came in the 1960's-1970's.

I suppose that interpretation in favor of the lighter music does work; personally I like to think of grand pas de deux variation music as reflections of the characters' inner feelings; to me, the darker music just feels more powerful/impactful in the "Rothbart disguising Odile to trick Siegfried into professing love for the wrong woman" context. But I'm open to different interpretations as long as they're handled well.

[volcanohunter]

The oboe variation for Odile was used by Burmeister in 1953, Nureyev in 1964, Bruhn in 1967 and Grigorovich in 1969. Perhaps other choreographers have used it as well.

Ashton used it for the second female variation in the pas de quatre he inserted into the ballroom scene, where it had no sinister implications, though it involved more hip-wiggling than is typical from a dancer wearing a classical tutu. 

Burmeister re-choreographed the pas de deux entirely. Nureyev kept the familiar Siegfried variation. Bruhn initially re-choreographed the entire pas de deux, but later restored the traditional variation for Siegfried and the coda. Grigorovich kept the familiar adage and coda.

In Paris Nureyev staged the traditional "Black Swan" pas de deux, although he inserted a brief variation for Rothbart to the waltz that Tchaikovsky composed to proceed the "coda" music (when the music was still in Act 1). I don't know whether anyone has considered using that music for Odile. We know that Petipa didn't. It is on the short side, but at least then the musical integrity of the piece would be maintained.

 

Edited April 6, 2023 by volcanohunter