diane Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Buddy, that is true. (rarely see more than two rotations in the air, though some dancers _could_ do them) Someone once said, and i tend to agree, that, ".... I stop counting after three" pirouettes. It really does not interest me how many pirouettes a person is turning. Totally musical turns which may go on for the duration of the phrase and may be more than three or so - sure - once in awhile. But, like marzipan, too much is just sickening. I like the idea of having more roles into which dancers can grow. Artistically and humanly. -d- Link to comment
Buddy Posted November 14, 2014 Author Share Posted November 14, 2014 I like the idea of having more roles into which dancers can grow. Artistically and humanly. I'm glad that you, as a former ballet dancer and the mother of two dancers, like this idea, Diane. I think that Helene proposed it in her quote: "If there aren't roles to grow into and be compared to other people who've done those roles, and it isn't in the mindset of the dancers that these roles are valuable, not the consolation prize, there's no incentive to continue." I believe that it was George Balanchine who said to one of his dancers that five or six rotations is fine "after that they start counting." Added: Also there's the fact that the dancers have already grown, there's just not the proper place for them to continue showing this after their physicality has slowed down, which is what the project that is the subject of this discussion hopes to 'remedy.' [last word changed] Link to comment
Buddy Posted November 15, 2014 Author Share Posted November 15, 2014 Thinking more about what I believe Helene is proposing, roles that can actually start at the beginning of dancers' careers and continue well on into their maturity, I have a somewhat different idea for a Dance On Pilot Project. Why limit it to Age 40+? Youth has wonderful beauty, sensitivity, perception and ability, so why necessarily separate it from maturity? Perhaps make a project an uninterrupted continuum. I don't mean to diminish the merit of this program at all and I wish it total success in displaying the value of mature artists. Programing for an uninterrupted continuum, on the other hand, is another way of looking at this that might have merit. Since the Dance On Pilot Project is proposing a structure and looking for material I thought that this recent interview with David Hallberg about his Innovation Initiative project might have some ideas worth considering. Gia Kourlas, the interviewer, starts: “Choreographic workshops have become the fashion at ballet companies, but they’re not a mindless trend. Finding choreographic talent and keeping dancers challenged is serious business. American Ballet Theatre, in a new partnership with the Arts Initiative at Columbia University…. “And there are so many dancers in its general studies department. Columbia Ballet Collaborative was started because there were so many former ballet dancers enrolled.” David, in answer to other questions: “It’s really just about the exploration and the questions—not just those that the choreographers pose to the dancers, but vice versa. “It poses a challenge for the dancers, because in ballet we’re spoon fed choreography, and I don’t necessarily say that as a negative thing, but Alexei Ratmansky has his vision, and Chris Wheeldon has his vision. There are famous collaborations, Wendy Whelan being the most obvious one where she is putting her own voice into Chris’s choreography or Alexei’s, but rarely are we looked at from the person creating the piece and told, “I want to see some improvisation.” It’s challenging, too, when you’re used to the ballet-world rehearsal and performance process. When it’s shaken up.” http://www.timeout.com/newyork/blog/david-hallberg-on-abts-innovation-initiative Added: Why have dancer input into establishing the structure and the material? For one reason, as the Dance On Pilot Project puts it in its announcement: "....mature dancers are especially capable of reaching the intellectual and emotional depths of choreographic material. Their radiance and impressive interpretative powers expand the audience’s dance experience by a key dimension." Added added: There is also a challenge here for the mature artist to be able to stand side by side with a younger artist, not be apart and to shine as brightly, perhaps as youthfully. Wendy Whelan, for one, to me, does not look or act 47. She's much more youthful. This is something that Diane had to face and she made her career decision accordingly, but her career isn't over. It includes teaching, choreographing and maybe new artistic horizons. Link to comment
sandik Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 There is also a challenge here for the mature artist to be able to stand side by side with a younger artist, not be apart and to shine as brightly, perhaps as youthfully. Wendy Whelan, for one, to me, does not look or act 47. She's much more youthful. This is something that Diane had to face and she made her career decision accordingly, but her career isn't over. It includes teaching, choreographing and maybe new artistic horizons. A couple of thoughts. The modern dance world sees this (mature artists dancing with newbies) frequently -- it does indeed have the cross-pollination that you are hoping for. I disagree with your characterization of Whelan -- rather than saying she looks young 'for her age,' I would rather say that this is one of the ways that 47 can look. Implying that she's performing unusually for her age is reinforcing the stereotype that you're arguing against in this thread. Link to comment
Buddy Posted November 16, 2014 Author Share Posted November 16, 2014 Hi, sandik. I was actually thinking of Wendy Whelan, the person, when I wrote that she "does not look or act 47," but I could probably say the same about much of her artistry. Still, I'm not sure that I totally understand the question in your last sentence. Perhaps you could clarify it somewhat for me if you have a chance. If my point of view might confuse you, I'm not sure that I totally understand it all myself. I think about age a lot, probably like many of us. I love the joy of being Young. I live with the physical reality of age, but I try not to get 'old' (as in 'less able') any more than necessary. Sometimes I see it as changing gears or emphasis. I like the idea of someone being as 'ageless' as possible. So perhaps, when I write about the value of maturity, I might see it as better understanding and appreciating the value of youth and Aliveness. In any case, it's meant to be a positive point of view for keeping life (and artistry) as alive and joyful as possible. [typo correction made] Link to comment
sandik Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 I'll try not to be too off-topic, but using myself as an example... I was 37 when my child was born, and we went to a co-op preschool so I was in the classroom with a lot of other parents of kids the same age as mine. When I turned 40, I got several comments from other parents, all variations on "you don't look 40." I am not, and was not then, unusually attractive, I was usually wearing clothes that allowed for mobility and were machine washable, and I was often festooned with whatever slimy stuff the kids were into at the time. I was not, as they say, "making an effort." I know that these were supposed to be compliments, and didn't want to be dismissive, but my usual response was "this is what 40 looks like." As a culture, we seem to have a fairly narrow idea about what is expected at certain ages, and this is exacerbated in dance. Yes, a job where you are an independent adult at 17 or 18 expects a great deal of maturity at an early age, but that doesn't mean that decrepitude must arrive equally early. It seems to me that the general consensus in this thread is that we cut dancers out of the profession too early, and miss the qualities that they have developed over time -- by saying, in essence, that Whelan doesn't look 47, you might be reinforcing the idea that 47 year olds are too old to be dancing. And I don't think that's what you're trying to say. Link to comment
Buddy Posted November 17, 2014 Author Share Posted November 17, 2014 Thanks, sandik. I think that I understand what you are saying and will try to keep it in mind. Probably Helen's comments best speak to the immediate issue. I wish the Dance On Pilot Project: New Creations For Dancers Aged 40+ as much success as possible. Link to comment
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