Estelle

Alexandra, is the "Swan Lake" video you mention the one with Zelensky as the Prince? I loved the sets and costumes of that production (really gorgeous), and liked Zelensky, but I'm afraid I found Makhalina a bit too cold... About Isabelle Guerin, the videos I've seen are: -the Bayadere video Jeannie wrote about (with also Hilaire as Solor and Platel as Gamzatti) -the Balanchine celebration "Apollo" Steve wrote about (pity that that Apollo isn't as good as his Terpsichore in my opinion... ) -a video of Nureyev's "Cinderella" in which she plays one of the ugly sisters (not a big role, and I don't like much Nureyev's choreography, but it's an opportunity to see that she's as good in comical roles as in more serious ones)- the other main roles are danced by Sylvie Guillem (Cinderella), Charles Jude (the Prince- really really cute ), Monique Loudieres (the other evil sister), Nureyev himself (the producer), and Georges Piletta (the mother, in travesti) -a video of Petit's "Notre-Dame de Paris" in which she dances Esmeralda (Legris is Phoebus, Hilaire is Frollo and Le Riche is Quasimodo) I think that she's been filmed recently in Preljocaj's "Le Parc", but don't know if a video will be released or if it will just be shown on TV. Last year, her and Legris were filmed in Petit's "L'Arlesienne" for the French TV (and I missed it ).

Jeannie, many thanks for the addresses! Actually, I tried to find that dance bookstore near the Odeon... and so did Leigh Witchel, since he's in Paris now. But the one we found (with not so many things) was called "Le coupe-papier", in the Rue de l'Odeon just near the Theater. So that's a third one... I'll be back in Paris within a week, and will go to the other two ones you mentioned.

Jeannie, you're better informed than me, because I don't think I know that shop!! (Actually, I don't remember where the Odeon is... I'm not so familiar with Paris, in fact!) I remember going to a "performance arts" bookstore near the Opera comique, but it was not so big. And I haven't met any really interesting dance bookstore in Paris yet- I found a few things at some "bouquinistes" near the Seine (including 3 old magazines with Michael Denard on the cover ), but the prices and the quality may vary quite a lot, and also a few things at the Gibert shops on the Boulevard Saint-Michel, but that's a matter of luck. The POB boutique has a decent collection of dance books, but only new ones. In Marseille, even good "general" bookstores are rare... I also found a few things in bookstores in Grenoble, but it took quite a lot of time (the only "advantage" of non-specialized bookstores is that sometimes the prices are cheap because they just don't estimate well a book's value!) I wish I knew any library like David Leonard's "Dance books" (in the only week-end I ever spent in London, I rushed there, and that's a wonderful place. I didn't have enough money nor room in my luggage to boy many things, but for example they had nice big books about the Ballets Suedois about 7 times cheaper than the French version...)

Alexandra, I fully agree about "Repertory in review". That's a wonderful book, its only shortcoming is that it stops too early. I feel especially lucky to have it, since finding it is impossible in France (it was an old copy sent by a friend, to whom I'm very very grateful). Among "specific" reference books, there's a catalogue of Balanchine's ballets (sorry, I don't remember its exact title) which is quite good to know the first casts, the exact dates of the premieres, etc. And about Diaghilev's Ballets Russes, Richard Shead's "Ballets Russes" and Diaghilev's "Les ballets russes a l'Opera". By the way, it's a pity that good dance books are so rare, old ones are so hard to find, and existing ones are so expensive. Most of those that I have are second-hand books, or gifts of an American friend.

Well, I don't know about such a big book, but I'm not the best person to ask about books in English (however, there isn't anything like that in French either). However, Horst Koegler's "Oxford concise dictionary of ballet" is quite good (that's the only book which always is in my desk at the university, and often it's enough to help me finish the quiz). But it's getting out of date now (I think the last edition was done in the early 80s), pity there is no newer version (by the way, does anybody know if Koegler is still alive?) About the Tudor quiz, may I suggest that Tudor is one of the few choreographers about whom I've done a whole page?

I don't know about the rehearsal times at the Paris Opera, but Delphine Baey, a soloist with whom I'm corresponding, recently complained that they sometimes didn't feel trained enough (they were shown the videos and had to manage to understand it alone), especially when they're dancing pieces with a non-classic style (Graham, Bausch, etc.)

Alexandra, I hope that you didn't thought that I was advocating the mutilation of the classics! But simply noticing that people might feel "freer" to do so since there already are several versions of classical works being performed... Do dance historians agree about which sections of the original choreographies are preserved? Such a list would be interesting... About Chauvire: I think that she said both (that she liked it, and that she'd have liked to dance it). Perhaps she said that just to be polite (it was in a radio program about Ek's "Giselle", she was interviewed with a young soloist who was dancing that role for the first time), but it didn't seem so. She said that at first it was difficult to stop remembering the choreography of the classical "Giselle", but that after a while it didn't prevent her from enjoying Ek's choreography. Myself I saw "Giselle" on stage only twice (and many times on video, but it's different), so perhaps I'm less sensitive to the changes. I was talking about the title, because perhaps it'd be clearer for the audience if the title was different (and the choreographer couldn't be accused of trying to attract the audience by "cheating". To play the devil's advocate, I might say that Bournonville's "Sylphide" came after Taglioni's version... but as you said, "a genius can get away with anything! ). By the way, talking about "modernizations", what did you think of Peter Schaufuss' recent versions of "Swan Lake", "The Sleeping Beauty", etc.? (I guess I know your answer ) They were shown in France recently (and received bad reviews).

Pamela, I understand your opinion (especially if the Gothenburg Theater schedules *only* "modernized" versions of the classics), but I agree with Leigh in general. Ek's "Giselle" (since he quoted it as an example) doesn't intend to replace the traditional Coralli/ Perrot/ Petipa version, it simply uses the same music (and a plot with a some similarities- but in general, it seems to me that plots aren't exactly the most interesting part of classical ballets, so that suing him for plagiarism would be a bit exaggerated...) It's not a parody, neither a "modernized version". Perhaps it'd have been clearer if he had chosen another title. And Alexandra, perhaps our tastes differ too much, but I think that it's worth seeing (may I invoke the opinion of Yvette Chauvire, who said she liked it?) After all, did your family despise Mozart's "Les noces de Figaro" and Rossini's "Le barbier de Seville", which are "after" Beaumarchais' plays? Perhaps one part of the problem is that even ballet fans sometimes disagree about the "right" version of classics. There doesn't seem to be any 100%-faithful version of "Swan Lake" and "The Sleeping Beauty", and perhaps if we saw the original versions with the original casts, we'd be quite shocked (Pierina Legnani's silhouette looks a bit different from today's standards, for example). I don't say that to excuse the people who think they can add any stupid invention to the original choreography, but just to mean that such "modifications" are accepted more easily when there is no "canonical" version. (For example, classical music doesn't suffer from those problems, probably because there are notated versions which people usually respect). About the "Swan Lake" thread: I'd like to point out that, though there officially are two "Swan Lake" in the POB repertory, as Jeannie said (Bourmeister and Nureyev), Burmeister's version hasn't been danced since 1992, and doesn't seem likely to be danced soon (the POB policy seems to be very "Nureyev-only" nowadays). Neumeier's version of "The Nutcracker" entered the repertory about five years ago, but was danced only one season, and since then they stick to Nureyev's version. On the other hand, there actually are two "active" "Giselle" (Bart's production after Perrot/ Petipa, and Ek's).

I agree with what Alexandra and Leigh said about the fact that receiving complimentary tickets is normal for professional reviewers, since it's their job. But it shouldn't prevent them to paying attention to the price of tickets (or to the problem of less comfortable seats). For example, it always has strucked me that most French dance and opera critics always have criticized the Opera Bastille very much, because of its aesthetic, its acoustic, etc. but none of them seemed to notice that, unlike the Opera Garnier, it has one *big* advantage: one can see the stage from all the seats, even from the cheapest ones (which is not the case in Garnier), and the prices generally are lower. I don't have sadistic fantasies about critics, but sometimes I think that seeing performance from the fourth floor boxes, second rank, would be an instructive experience for some of them...

Leigh, you wrote: "One reason there always seemed to be less female choreographers than male was that women are generally socialized not to take authority in situations (very broad generalization, but often true in ballet)." I agree with you, but wonder why there is such a difference between ballet and contemporary dance... In France, about half of the big contemporary dance companies are lead by women choreographers (Odile Duboc, Maguy Marin, Regine Chopinot, Maryse Delente, etc.) while women are much rarer in the classical field (there are a few female directors, such as Nanette Glushak in Toulouse and Pietragalla in Marseille, but they're not choreographers). Anyway, it seems to be a complicated phenomenon (I've heard many discussions about a similar problem in mathematics, and people seldom agreed on any conclusion...)

(Apologies for the awful editing of my posts-but I'm afraid I don't know how to improve it!) What a big thread- it's interesting, but I'm getting a bit lost... Alexandra, you wrote some time ago: "First, yes, the pre-20th century ballet repertory is not nearly as rich as that of opera, but I would argue that the 20th century classical/neoclassical repertory is richer. There's much fine repertory that's never done now -- lots of Fokine and Ashton, for starters." Well, perhaps one of the problems is that the "classical" repertory for music or opera has been around long enough to become a part of the "common culture", while the 20th-century repertory for classical dance was created at the same time as other dance forms, and is less widely known (and even some parts of the 19th century repertory- there was no complete "Swan Lake" in the POB repertory before the 1960s, for example). The "standard" repertory depends on the country- Ashton is almost unknown in France, for example... I'm afraid I haven't seen any work by the active "neoclassical" choreographers you quoted. And in France, even "ballet moderne" young choreographers are quite rare (the only ones coming to my mind are Maillot and Malandain)... By the way, would you include Rudi Van Dantig in the list? I saw his "Romeo and Juliet" yesterday by the Ballet de Marseille, it looked quite classical to my untrained eye(but I'm afraid I didn't find it very interesting- or maybe it's just I'm becoming severely allergic to Prokofiev's ballet music). You used the word "hybrid" for some choreographers such as Forsythe or Kylian, is it a negative term for you? Is it the fact that some people consider their works as "ballet" which disturbs you, or do you think their works aren't good, or both? You also wrote: "I'd also like to stress that my complaint against contemporary (nonclassical) ballet is when it's danced by a classical company. If the Martha Graham company put on "Sleeping Beauty," I think people would feel that was odd. Well, why doesn't it work the same way in ballet?" I see what you mean. On the other hand, I was quite happy to see some works of Graham in the POB repertory, even though they weren't danced very well. But the French context is special: the dance scene mostly is divided between "the POB" and "anything else", at least in term of company sizes and state subsidies. The POB subsidies are higher than the sum of those of all the other French companies, so it's not so surprising that people expect much from the POB, and so even expect them to have a really large repertory... And there are modern works whose preservation seems as difficult as the preservation of ballet works- seeing anything by Graham, Limon or Humphrey in France is almost impossible; perhaps the situation would be clearer if there also were some "repertory" steady modern companies? [This message has been edited by Estelle (edited 03-05-99).]

About Nijinska: oops, I meant to say "living choreographer"... But yes, of course I'd count her.

Alexandra, what you said about the "sociological" conditions reminded me of Virginia Woolf's "A room of one's own" (an excellent book by the way, I wish that a few sexist idiots that I met, who seemed to think that the fact that one part of the glory of the long list of important male creators alleviated the weight of their own stupidity, had read it ;-) ) But it's interesting to see that there were so many women among the first modern dance choreographers (Graham, Saint-Denis, Humphrey, etc.) and so few among the classical/neo-classical ones, even now. In France, there's a rather large proportion of female choreographers among contemporary ones, in fact I think it's one of the artistic fields (with literature) with the highest proportion of women (really higher than in cinema or music, for example, let alone mathematics... -oops, I forgot that some people might not view math as a branch of arts ;-) ) But I couldn't quote a female "neo-classical" choreographer. I wonder why? [This message has been edited by Estelle (edited 03-05-99).] [This message has been edited by Estelle (edited 03-05-99).]

Alexandra, thanks for your long, interesting post. But there is one thing which puzzles me: for you, is there any living choreographer who is in the "Lully/ Noverre/ Bournonville/ Petipa/ Balanchine/ Ashton line"? Perhaps one of the problems with the company directors is that real "classical" choreographers seem to be quite rare nowadays, and so they choose among the "most classical" ones... For example, the Paris Opera Ballet recently ordered some new works to choreographers such as William Forsythe and Jiri Kylian. That's not real "100% ballet" style, but I wonder what else choreographers they could choose (and that'll probably be better than Preljocaj, or than some of Nureyev's "classical" choreographies...) Do you think that there still are choreographers who'd be able to create "modern classics" in De Valois' classification? And perhaps another problem is that the "classical ballet" repertory seems more narrow than the repertory for music and opera: the oldest works in the repertory are rather "recent" in fact (late 18th century), and most of the works are known only through reconstructions, and there doesn't even see to be a "canonical" faithful version for some ballets. The list of pre-20th century ballets which can still be danced is quite narrow ("Giselle", less than a tenth of Petipa's ballets, some Bournonville's ballets (and they aren't well known outside Denmark), reconstructions of "La fille mal gardee" or of some works by Taglioni...) and so it makes a narrow choice for programmers. And also, how do you draw the line between "ballet" and "ballet moderne"? For example, Balanchine's "Agon" or "The Four temperaments" seem pretty far from "Giselle"... Here in France, "ballet moderne" isn't used often, people are more likely to talk about "neo-classique" (as opposed to "danse contemporaine"). But it isn't a clear definition, and might include Balanchine, Nijinska, Fokine, Tudor, Ashton and Lifar as well as Bejart, Petit, Spoerli, Kylian, Forsythe, Neumeier, Van Manen or even Mats Ek. And so there are probably as many differences among such "neo-classical" choreographers as between some of them and some "contemporary" ones. [This message has been edited by Estelle (edited 03-03-99).]

One of the "spine-tingling" moments coming to my mind is the entrance of Hilarion in Mats Ek's version of "Giselle". It was especially impressive when I saw it danced by Yvan Auzely, but even with other dancers, that was such a big shock (Giselle and Albert are dancing a nice, tender duo, and suddenly that brutal guy comes in, as a way to remind them of the outside, hostile world...) And in the traditional version, the entrance of Giselle as a Wilis (turning and turning and turning). And also some moments of the end of "Theme and variations", and the moment in Graham's "Cave of the heart" when Medea begins to tremble and you understand she's becoming totally crazy...

About multiple performances: my parents still don't understand it, and they also don't understand why I want to record a ballet on TV when I already have some tapes of other versions. "But you already have 2 or 3 Giselles, why do you want us to record that one? It's always the same ballet..." They understand that a recording of, say, "Le Bolero" conducted by Boulez is not the same as one conducted by Celibidache (sp?), but for some reason they don't understand it for ballet. (And Giannina, thanks for your comments about "Le Corsaire").

I'm afraid I can't add much to the discussion, but I'd like to say that that thread made me realize that, as far as I remember, the only performances I saw with a live orchestra were those at the Paris Opera (with the POB or with invited companies), and two performances at the Maison de la Danse of Lyon with traditional Japanese musicians or with the orchestra of the students of the Conservatoire of Lyon (and perhaps one at the Lyon Opera, I'm afraid I don't remember whether there was an orchestra). That's not much... Perhaps sometimes there's also a problem with some theaters: for example, at the Maison de la Danse, the stage isn't big and usually there's no room for a big orchestra. And also some orchestras or conductors seem to consider ballet music as "second-rate"; some critics often protest because at the Paris Opera, some performance of the POB are accompanied not with the POO but with other, less good, Parisian Orchestras (orchestre Colonne, orchestre des concerts Lamoureux). Sometimes it's because the orchestra already is busy with other performances, and I understand that playing some Minkus must be a bit boring sometimes, but it's a pity not to get them to play some Stravinsky or Tchaikovsky...

I think that Vilno is the same as Vilnius (in Yiddish, for example, Vilnius is called "Vilne" - "the Jerusalem of Lithuania"...) I agree about "Les Noces". I've only seen it in the "Paris Dances Diaghilev" (with Elisabeth Platel, Kader Belarbi, Jean-Yves Lormeau and Francoise Legree), and wish to see it on stage someday. The Ballet du Nord in Roubaix (France) will dance it within a few weeks, in a Stravinsky program also including Maryse Delente's (their director) version of "The Rite of Spring". The Paris Opera Ballet also restaged Nijinska's "Les Biches" and "Le Train Bleu" a few seasons ago. I haven't seen "Les Biches", unfortunately it was staged only one season, but their "Train Bleu" (blue train) was filmed in a "Picasso and dance" program (Picasso had made the stage curtain). It's a much lighter ballet than "Les Noces", pleasant to see (with a lovely Nicolas Le Riche as "le beau gosse" in the video), but not as great as "Les Noces".

Giannina: Kylian's "Kaguyahime" once was broadcasted on the French TV, a few seasons ago... It was filmed with the NYCB, and I think the main role was danced by Fiona Lummis. It was not my favorite Kylian ballet, but I did like some of its parts (and the dancers were very good). Estelle

I'm afraid I won't be able to post anything as detailed as Dale's post, but let's try... Best performances (full evenings): - the Paris Opera Ballet school performance in Nanterre (including some excerpts of works by Kylian, Balanchine's "Sonnambula" and Lichine's "Graduation Ball") - the POB in Mats Ek's "Giselle" in Paris - the Compagnie Temps Present in Thierry Malandain's "Sextet" and "Carmen" in Paris, - the Lyon Opera Ballet in Lyon, in a Kylian program ("Stamping ground", "Nuages", "Petite mort", "Six dances") and a Ek program ("Solo for two", "Carmen") Worst choreography: Nacho Duato's "Self" (danced by his company in Grenoble in April). Small disappointment (about a choreography): Mats Ek's "Sleeping beauty" (danced by the Ballet Cullberg in Lyon). That's not such a bad choreography, but I'd have expected better from Mats Ek. Good surprises: - Thierry Malandain's choreographies for "Sextet" and "Carmen". Talented young French neo-classical choreographers aren't exactly common... - the revival of Doris Humphrey's "Ritmo Jondo" by the Labkine Company - Nacho Duato's "Por vos muero" (danced by his company in Grenoble). Worst score: Sofia Gubaidulina's "String Quartet", used in the awfully boring "Les deux faces de Louis". Ballets that I had already seen, and enjoyed much more when seeing it again: Richard Wherlock's "Stetl", Balanchine's "Who Cares?" and Jacques Garnier's "Aunis" (by the Ballet de Marseille), Jean-Christophe Maillot's "Dov'e la luna" (by the students of the Lyon Conservatoire), Martha Graham's "Errand into the maze" (by the Graham company in Lyon). Estelle [This message has been edited by Estelle (edited 01-04-99).] [This message has been edited by Estelle (edited 01-04-99).]

About dance magazines: I only get some French magazines (finding them often is difficult, so it's even worse with foreign ones...): "Les Saisons de la Danse", "Danser" and "Ballet 2000" (French version of "Balletto Oggi"). I sometimes have a look at "Danse Conservatoire", but dislike so much the tone and opinions of their director that I seldom buy it. "Les Saisons de la Danse" is the most complete French magazine in my opinion. It looks less "nice" than "Danser" (no color photographs, for example), but their reviews are longer and they are more interested in dance history. They used to deal almost only about classical ballet, but now there are quite a lot of articles about contemporary dance; their new director, Philippe Verriele (who is plagued by an awful spelling, that's quite annoying), who is the successor of the late Andre-Philippe Hersin, clearly isn't a specialist of classical ballet; I wish he didn't feel compelled to write the reviews of the POB performances...

Alexandra, I really agree with what you said about Nancy Reynold's "Repertory in review". A friend of mine gave it to me (and I'm very very very grateful for that), and since then I've read it again and again. I wish too there were an updated version... And reading it is all the more frustrating as I'm very unlikely to see most of the ballets which are listed. And of course, I'd love to see a similar book about the Paris Opera Ballet. The task would probably be harder, since the history of the company is longer (and I'm not sure that all the archives were kept), but that really would be interesting.

Wow, Margot, what a great list! Since that thread is likely to become very long (and that's good!), perhaps it'd be interesting to include a page somewhere on the site (something like the Library catalog) listing all the ballets quoted in this thread, with the references (author, publisher, date, if possible ISBN number)? Tom Parsons' ballet-modern FAQ includes a large bibliography, perhaps it'd be interesting to email him the title quoted in this thread. Margot, if I ever see "Danseuse etoile" in a bookshop I promise to warn you! :-) About the Ballets Russes, the book by Martie Kahane "Les Ballets Russes a l'Opera" is quite interesting, with many pictures and documents. I liked Richard Shead's "Ballets Russes" too, except that some photographs had odd colors.

Thanks for the reference for "Ballet steps", Steve! I'm afraid finding it in France won't be easy, but it really sounds useful. I hope that talking about dance bookstores isn't too off-topic in this thread... I've never found a really satisfying bookstore from that point of view in France, but in London David Leonard's shop is a kind of paradise for ballet lovers. I went there only once, but really would like to go there again, their collection of books (old and new) is very impressive! Among the books which I found there: "Ballets Suedois"by Bengt Hager (it's in English, but there also was a French version of it). It's a big coffee-table book about Rold de Mare's "Ballets Suedois", with great pictures and interesting texts. I'm afraid that most of the dance books presently available in France fall into two categories: the "nice" big expensive ones with many pictures and uninteresting texts (I don't know how to translate "nunuche" into English...) -usually those ones deal with classical ballet- and the "high brow" ones with no pictures, long complicated texts which often talk very little about dance and much more about psychoanalysis, graphic arts, etc. - usually those ones deal with modern dance. Books with good pictures *and* interesting analysis aren't so common...

Hi Alexandra, you wrote "all those dancers are gone now"- could you explain what happened? Did they retire, or did they join another company? I saw that video on the French TV (a few years ago, the French channel TF1, whose programs usually are not cultural at all, broadcasted for some unknown reasons- perhaps compulsory quotas?- some ballets around 2 or 3 AM, so lucky well-informed people with a VCR and *long* tapes (because the ballets usually were shown late) could see treasures such as "Napoli", the NYCB Balanchine Celebration, Baryschnikov in "La sonnambula" and "Who Cares", etc.) but as far as I know it never was commercially available in France. And I've never seen any other video with the Royal Danish Ballet (nor anything else by Bournonville... Pity the POB hasn't danced anything by Bournonville for years, by the way!)